G5 Quake 3 Bechmarks -- the final word?

Discussion in 'Macintosh Computers' started by MrJamie, Jun 25, 2003.

  1. macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    #1
    I've gone around and asked friends and friends of friends with nifty computers to do benchmarks of demo four in quake 3 arena with sound on and off at 640x480x16 and 1024x768x32.

    The results exist, staggeringly enough, in incredible support of Apple's benchmarks.

    For brevity's sake, I'll only post the highest end PC I got benchmarks from.

    -Pentium 4 3.06GHz Overclocked @ 3.6GHz ($500)
    -133MHz Frontside Bus Overclocked @ 156MHz
    -1GB pc3500 DDR @ cas 2-2-2-5 ($300)
    -asus P4C800 Deluxe [on-board gigabit ethernet] ($200)
    -GeForce FX 5800 Ultra ($500)
    -Two hard Drives:
    +Western Digital Raptor Serial ATA 40 GB 10,000rpm (Boot) (free)
    +Western Digital Lab Sample Serial ATA 7,200rpm 120 GB (Game) (free)
    -IDE DVD-Rom drive [i.e. read only] ($60)
    -IDE CD-R/RW drive [48/24/48 sony] ($70)
    -logitech elite keyboard ($70)
    -ms explorer 3.0 mouse ($50)

    total price: $1750 + Case [coolermaster ATC-110] ($150) + power supply ($100) + water cooler ($250) + audigy2 sound card ($120)=
    -----
    $2390

    *notes:
    -no floppy. Finally pc users learn! just kiddin ;)
    -usb 2.0
    -no pci-x
    -firewire 400, disabled by user (only 1 usable pci slot 'cuz everything takes up so much space, especially the huge graphics card)



    -PowerMac G5 2x2.0GHz
    -1GHz frontside Bus
    -1GB DDR400 SDRAM [PC3200]
    -ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
    -160GB Serial ATA 7200rpm
    -Combo Drive [CD-RW/DVD-ROM]
    -Apple Pro Keyboard
    -ms explorer 3.0 mouse ($50)
    -----
    $3,320

    *notes:
    -usb 2.0
    -pci-x
    -firewire 400, firewire 800

    on to the FPS:

    - Default Config
    - Antisopetric Filtering / Anti-Aliasing / etc. disabled

    P4 3.6GHz

    Normal (640x16)
    Sound 299.9 fps
    Sound Off 397.0 fps

    High Quality (1024x32 with all the sliders/settings maxed)
    Sound 297.0 fps
    Sound Off 372.8 fps

    Apple says:
    Power Mac G5 vs. Dell Dimension 8300
    640x480x16 - 359 vs. 277
    1024x768x32 - 337 vs. 275

    Phew. That's the fruit of my research.

    Read, be happy, go out and do fun things :)
     
  2. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #2
    well it looks like they were close, im sure that extra 500mhz helped with the fps.

    iJon
     
  3. macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    chicago
    #3
    Re: G5 Quake 3 Bechmarks vs. real, brand new pentium 4 3.6ghz benchmarks -- g5 wins?

    sheesh. i'm happy when i break 70. (for online, anyway)
     
  4. macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2001
    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #4
    Um... the Scores on the bottom... With or without sound...?

    And since when did sound mean THAT much for Quake? All most 100 Frame difference.
     
  5. macrumors 6502a

    jimthorn

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA, USA
    #5
    The really surprising thing to me is that Quake 3 is still used for benchmarking. That game engine is how many years old now? (And remember, computer game years are kinda like "dog years"). :)
     
  6. macrumors 68000

    Freg3000

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    #6
    Cool. Pretty good stuff. :)

    P.S. Mr. MacMan: Not funny......:)
     
  7. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #7
    sound is a big part of the games. puts a heavy load on the cpu and when sound is off it can increase performace alot. but if you have a decent computer turning off sound is never necessary. quake is apples best bet at getting decent benchmarks. its based on open gl and is apples only chance on getting good fps between a pc and a mac. most games are ports of directx games and they would perform poorly on the mac. im sure quake 3 will be replaced on doom 3 when it comes out. benchmarks should get better too over time because nvidia just hired 5 developers strictly for mac drivers.

    iJon
     
  8. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2002
    #8
    Quake benchmarks are becoming a little silly - it is, after all, a 4 year old engine. Can one really perceive a difference between 300fps - 400fps, given that displays typically operate at frequencies of 60-85hz? I realize that because it's universally accepted it makes a good benchmark, but it is now almost irrelevant.

    Once the G5s actually ship I would love to see benchmarks done using a newer engine - for example the upcoming Doom 3 engine reportedly makes even top of the line ATI 9800's and nVidia 5900's melt to quite humble 20-30fps speeds on PCs (according to Anad Tech). Perhaps once this game becomes commercially available we will see more realistic performance benchmarks - because at around 30fps, a 10-20% difference actually means something quite significant to the gameplay experience.

    This little rant has nothing to do with MrJamie's efforts - I really appreciate his taking the time to do this. I just hope the industry as a whole will soon find a new benchmark.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    Davis, CA
    #9
    dont mean to bug, but...

    when you compare prices, don't forget to include windows (around 250 or 300 can't remembers). also, why are the hard drives free?

    i went to frys today to see what the sata drives cost.. $189 for 32 gigs! prob a rip off, but can't be too far off.

    (I am trying to think of reasons the price isn't too bad, and this is mostly for my own benefit! :))
    - bert
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #10
    Your PC prices are WAY overpriced... and for the people saying that windows XP is $300... you can get XP Pro FULL for $130 OEM.

    The Mac benchmarks are still whacked... just wait until the G5s come out 2 months from now and are benchmarked against Intel's latest.
     
  11. macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #11
    Actually $189.99 is way far off. You're looking at a 10,000 RPM Western Digital Raptor Drive man... Apple doesn't use those. However, I just bought that exact same drive yesterday online for $139.99 OEM with free shipping and no tax.
     
  12. macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    chicago
    #12
    where?
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    PRK
  14. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #14
    cheapest i can find is 207. i see a lot of people compare apples payed upgrades to windows service packs. service packs dont add anything new. i installed windows xp service pack 1and nothing happened, all i knew is court ordered them to come out with it so you use netscape and stuff like that. i feel apple is actually doig something and each upgrade is worth every penny, although i do agree apple should allow discounts to people who saved there coupons from jaguar.

    iJon
     
  15. thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    #15
    links to cheaper, equal quality hardware please, or I'm going to disregard this.
     
  16. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    Davis, CA
    #16
    well, the specs for the p4 DID have a 10k rpm sata didn't it? plus a 7.2k.

    PLUS, i don't care about the os price really, just wanted it included--the hard drive costs as well. this comparison might make someone say, "oh, p4s are cheaper by allot ill print this list out and go buy these parts" and be pretty upset that two sata hard drives are NOT free--i have yet to see an explanation for the free, maybe im blind (which is almost true in reality...).

    another side note, a dvdrom and a cd burner doesn't add up in price to a dvd burner.

    and a price to lower would be the CPU, put it to 400, newegg.com sells for 360 about and they tend to be about 10% lower than average prices on cpus.

    this is getting to the pettiness level already, so im stopping.

    - bert
     
  17. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    Davis, CA
    #17
    also, go to frys and you will see winxp pro for 299.99, check outpost.com.

    its not oem because the average person buys a computer from a physical store like frys and they will buy xp there as well, in a box that costs a whole 150 dollars more than a shrinkwrap oem bundle.

    final from, really.

    - bert
     
  18. macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    chicago
    #18
    there's a downloadable osx version.
     
  19. macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #19
    Jeez, just check out ANY online prices, or I'm going to disregard and ignore your whole post since you should know this if you know anything about computers.

    Example... you list a P4 3.06 GHz (With the wrong FSB btw, should be 533 MHz FSB) for $500... that's a joke.

    The more expensive and better 3.0 GHz 800 MHz FSB is only $400 RETAIL.
    http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80661

    The list goes on from there.

    Top of the line Lite-On 52x24x52 CD-RW costs $48 retail with Nero.

    Intellimouse Explorer 3.0a Costs $30 OEM.

    You only need PC 3200 RAM in a stock 3.0 GHz, so you can knock the RAM price to about $200.

    If you're comparing price to price, a Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB costs $350 retail for PC.

    There isn't a 40 gig raptor, but the 36.7 gig goes for $139.99.

    And for those saying that you can't get Windows XP Pro for under $150... http://www.ateck.com/viewitem.asp?idproduct=453054843 $133.48 with free shipping.
     
  20. macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    chicago
    #20
    from the product description on that page:
    because ateck is selling it w/o the h/w, i wonder if it's a grey market item and what MS would have to say about it.

    xp pro sold on its own -- w/o that label -- goes for close to $300. that price discrepancy alone makes one curious about the legality.
     
  21. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    #21
    *edit*

    nvm, i need to start reading the other posts first[/edit]

    but yea, what ijon said. apple wouldn't overclock the competition.

    tho it is kinda sad that 540mhz boost only gave extra 20fps...
     
  22. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Location:
    Kennebunk, Maine, USA
    #22
    133 mhz front side bus?

    Get real, even a 500$ out of the box pc has a 400mhz.

    my 1500$ gateway is 533mhz

    esshh
     
  23. thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    #23
    ahem, 133 bus quad pumped. Common man, everyone should know that about pentium four processors by now.
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #24
    I would be interested if they ported 3Dmark to the Mac, since more people use that now. Quake 3 is no longer a really good benchmark to use for gaming performance as the bus now makes the most difference. What I want to see is UT2003, especially the 64bit update that will be avaliable soon. If it gets a good score I will be able to get a G5 and play UT2003 in 5.1 sound on a Mac and stop using my PC for it.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #25
    OMG... I'm starting to hate this Mac forum... do you guys know what OEM is? Original Equipment Manufacturer... it means this is the CD that is suppose to be sold to say Dell and Compaq... doesn't have the pretty box, etc. Microsoft has a contract with hardware vendors that anything that is Microsoft and OEM has to be sold with hardware... that's why most places throw in a free cable to meet this part of the contract. Just like
    http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=604631
    does if you go through the checkout process...

    I swear, it would actually do some of you some good to go out and build your own PC sometime.
     

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