Gappless and New Search feature on 5G (not 5.5.g) iPod???

Discussion in 'iPod' started by CEAbiscuit, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. CEAbiscuit macrumors 6502a

    CEAbiscuit

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    #1
    Do the enhancements, specifically the new search function, games and gappless, to iTunes work on the 5G (not 5.5g) iPod? The deals on a 60g 5g are almost too hard to pass up in the apple clearance store. Thanks!
     
  2. crazzyeddie macrumors 68030

    crazzyeddie

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    #2
    Yes. There are multiple other threads on this topic. Search for more info.
     
  3. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #3
    search doesnt work on the previous 5G iPods, games and gapless supposedly do. the smart scrolling also works. also there are reports (even from me) that the new H264 spec doesnt seem to want to work on the previous 5G.
    its either really darn picky or completely broken judging from some other posts ive seen. some claim it works though but of course they never say HOW they got it to work (which usually means they are lying and havn't).
    there is absolutely NO technical reason search wouldnt work on a 5G. its a hardware lock emplemented in the iPod software to make it only work with the NEW 5G. this is nothing new for Apple to do something like this...and i'm hoping a hack is devised to implement this feature.
     
  4. FredClausen macrumors regular

    FredClausen

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    #4
    I don't think anyone knows for sure right now. Apple hasn't said and the review sites haven't said either. Based on my experiments though, unless I've missed something it appears that the search function is not available on the 5G iPods. No idea about gapless playback, but I'd bet it is there. Games do play on the 5G iPod.

    Search and gapless playback are not worth enough to pass up those deals on the original 5G iPods. I'd be snagging one of those up if I wasn't so lucky to already have one.
     
  5. timnosenzo macrumors 6502a

    timnosenzo

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    #5
    Gapless playback and the letters popping up when scrolling works on my 5G iPod, but there is no search feature. I have the search on my 2G Nano, but I don't see it getting that much use... its not that amazing IMHO.
     
  6. CEAbiscuit thread starter macrumors 6502a

    CEAbiscuit

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    #6
    I did search and info was cloudy at best. Thanks others for your advice and info.
     
  7. Felldownthewell macrumors 65816

    Felldownthewell

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    #7

    Smart scrolling works on my iPod, as does the new video resolution. No search function, though hopefully that will show up eventually, either through apple or through a hack. Games do work. Not sure about gapless, or even how to test it.
     
  8. TheNightPhoenix macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Not lying... Honest!

    I just opened up video in quicktime and did export for iPod. Create a fine new file in the new resolution. I have also downloaded content from store and it works fine.

    However... i have to admit i haven't tried handbrake etc but i bet if you wait a few days it'll be updated.
     
  9. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #9
    I have a 30gig fifth gen iPod (not the new 5.5 gen one). I downloaded Pirate of the Carribean from the iTunes Store. It works on my iPod just fine. It also plays onto my TV just fine using the AV cable.

    I ripped a DVD with handbrake using similar specs as Pirates and that worked just fine also. I almost have nailed down how to add chapters to the video using Quicktime 7 and will be posting a tutorial on that once I get it nailed down. I'd also like to get a JPeg track working too so it exhibits the same type of behavior that the iTunes Movies do.

    If I'm lying then my iPod is the liar, not me... :)
     
  10. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #10
    the lying comment was an observation from most technical threads. anytime someone has a problem there is always someone that says "works for me" when it doesnt work for tons of other people...with no comments as to how they got it to work...with many other still being frustrated. sometimes its for things that are completely known to NOT work...but they just have to feel special thinking everyone thinks they are intelligent...when all it was was a lie.

    anyways.
    i havnt tried it in Quicktime yet. but i wouldnt have because QT is not really used in the DVD conversion process.
    most conversion utilities still havnt been upgraded to the new standard yet and most of those use QT for their encoding anyway.
    handbrake, which is the DVD conversion tool of choice for most mac users, seems to not work most of the time. as someone here posted it works...but many others it doesnt. i posted my settings for handbrake and they are no different than the ones iTunes uses except for the fact it has a MUCH higher encoding bit rate than i uses (500kbps comparted to iTunes 1700kpbs). everything else is the same. size, audio quality/codec,h264 baseline..everything. so some have had it work...some havnt. so they obviously have done something others are missing. right now my only can think of the bit rate as being the issue. the only other thing would be to rip first and then convert but that has never ever been a problem for me using Handbrake.

    what i used:
    format: mp4
    codec: AVC/H.264
    fps: 29.97
    encoder: x264 (Baseline)
    Average Bit Rate: 500kbps
    2 pass encoding
    size: 640 x 272
    audio: english ac3 (5chan) (or 2chan)
    sample rate: 44100
    bitrate: 128
     
  11. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #11
    I know I used 640x272 as the size with 1700kbps as the encoding rate when I ripped Firefly... like I say... I tried to keep it as close as possible to the Pirates movie. I also did double pass encoding. I can't recall if I used FFMpeg or the other one (Xvid?)... I can try again when I get home though and relay the exact setting I used. I also have Quicktime Pro if that makes any difference. The file I initially imported into iTunes was straight from DVD -> handbrake. Only now am I working on adding chapters and such. You can expect a chapter tutorial tonight.

    The only other specs that I know are different from yours was that I had 23.8 FPS instead of 29.97. I'm not sure if that's what the DVD was already at or what... I know it was 23.8 FPS because that was part of my trouble with chapters.
     
  12. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #12
    ok i think thats where we differ. i think you encoded it as an MPEG4 in the codec selector and not as an H.264 MPEG4. there is a difference. if you selected MPEG4 you get the FFMpeg or xVid option.
    if you choose H.264 you get one option, x264.
    the iPod previously supported up to 640x480 on the normal MPEG4 standard...i think...either that or 480 x something...
    im working out of memory at the moment id need to be at home on my mac to confirm it...but i think thats the problem
    but at the very least we now know the iPod supports normal MPEG4 at 640 resolutions :)
    also i noticed you used a different fps...but i wouldnt think that would be a difference seeing as how 29.97 is within the standard...but who know. all i know is it's not working for me and lot of other people.
    if you or anyone else try again please post.
     
  13. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #13
    I'll relook at things when I get home. I was pretty sure I went to H.264... I maybe have tried to switch encoders, then switched the video type... I'll certainly double check and screen shot my settings. Only takes about 2 hours to double pass compress the video anyway.
     
  14. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #14
    thanks. if the normal MPEG4 codec works i have no problem with that at all...id just like to get the H264 working for the best overall quality
    ill play around with it some more when i get home too.
    out of curiosity how big was that DVD file you made? at the old settings i was getting about 400-500MB for a movie. at 1700kbps how big was it? i want to find the best happy medium between quality and size.
    the file i ripped at 640 H.264 stayed about that size too.
     
  15. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #15
    Here is the format info for Pirates of the Caribbean...

    I also tried compressing a DVD to H.264 and while it did play in iTunes it would not let me move it to my 5th gen iPod. :(

    I notice that Pirates uses AVC0.

    Back to the drawing board...
     
  16. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #16
    im redoing one in H264 again...so im guessing i should cancel it. the video you did before must have been done in MPEG4 right? not the H264 setting?
    im guessing Apple is using a different version of the H264 codec now that handbrake (and no other program) uses.
    so any thoughts?
    what is AVC0? ive never heard of that one
    i checked and all my past files show H264 at 320x240 unless its the few i did as a mpeg4.
    i canceled my H264 file and am starting a normal MPEG4. ive also read that since the new iPod software you can actually push the MPEG4 past its 640x480 limit. some have said they have gotten 720x304 to work...which is what im trying now. ill post the results.
     
  17. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #17
    Yeah. I had encoded the other video in MPEG4.

    I just now converted the H.264 video to iPod format in Quicktime. As far as I can tell the only difference is the way the audio and video tracks are ordered in the properties pane... they're both at the same everything (except data rate). In the handbrake version the video track shows up first then the audio track. In the Convert to iPod version the audio and then the video appears.

    It did retain the 640x480 size though during the conversion. With the Quicktime update, that may be the new standard size.
     
  18. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #18
    ok. i just encoded a MPEG 4 at higher than the spec allows...and it worked fine.
    i did it at 720x304 which was the native resolution for the DVD i was ripping.
    i used 1000kbps. ffmpeg. 29.97 fps.
    the video looks and plays great on the ipod and the tv. it is around 700MB. i used 128 aac audio at 44100.
    so it looks like the H264 spec is a bigger pain in the ass than advertised this time around and MPEG4 actually exceeds its given spec.
    ill try and find something that uses quicktime to rip dvds/video_ts but until then ill just use MPEG4.
    does anyone know a ripper/converter that uses quicktime as its encoding engine? is it fixed to work with the new rez yet?
     
  19. daskonig macrumors newbie

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    May 2, 2005
    #19
    The new 640x480 videos from the iTunes Store are encoded using the h.264 Baseline LC profile whereas the older 320x240 videos were encoded using the h.264 Baseline profile. Applications like Handbrake don't support this new Baseline LC profile yet.
     
  20. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #20
    leave it to apple to pick something noone else uses or supports.
    i wonder how long it will take for Handbrake (or some other tool) to add H.264 Baseline LC as an option.
    ive got alot of movies and i need to get a start on prepping them for iTV :)
    im guessing the AVC0 is another name for Baseline LC?
     

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