Gay bar attacker killed

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by XNine, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    #1
  2. emw macrumors G4

    emw

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    #2
    Good news that he's no longer a threat. Bad news that he apparently took out at least two other people in the process.
     
  3. devilot Moderator emeritus

    devilot

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    #3
    Whew. What a story he could tell when asked about his scars. :(
     
  4. whocares macrumors 65816

    whocares

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    #4
    Caution: controversial post ahead

    I'm sorry, but by saying that, you're just as bad as he/they is/are.


    Arrest them, trial them, send them to jail, hell even fry'em if that's the thing in your country, but don't murder them without a fair trial.
     
  5. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #5
    Shame a young man ended up like this and did all this damage both to others and to himself.

    Not a good story all around.
     
  6. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #6
    This is so scary. We heard about the New Bedford part of this story on our way out of Boston. I'm saddened to see that the net of destruction he caused has turned out to be so wide. I'm not happy for his death, but I do see the good side of it, sadly....
     
  7. iSaint macrumors 603

    iSaint

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    #7
    I'll have to agree with you on that. It is tragic from every aspect. The killer has a family, a mother, somewhere.
     
  8. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #8
    I agree. I take no comfort in a wasted human life. Even one such as his. I guess he kinda brought it upon himself, but that's still no excuse.
     
  9. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #9

    Meh, to each his own. But it's people like him who are putting the world down the crapper. You, me? We ACCEPT people, we don't go around with a hatchet and a gun trying to kill them just because they're different than us. This guy was not only a Nazi, but looney as well.

    Sure, he may be human, he may have had friends and family, but so did thos einnocent people that were injured and killed because of his of his viewpoint. He's a waste of natural resources, as far as I'm concerned.

    You can say I'm as bad but am I really as bad for wanting scumbags like him dusted? I wouldn't be so sure of that. Besides, he did bring it on himself. And frying someone costs more than a bullet to the head. That would definately cut down on the tax money we spend on executing people...
     
  10. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #10
    I see Onizuka's response a partly an unintended (or maybe intended?) consequence of our current culture.

    Sorry Onizuka, I don't mean to speak of you as if you're not there, but this is an issue that concerns me.

    With our current national attitude of "screw the paperwork and get the job done" I think our legal system has taken an enormous blow. The legal system, as convoluted as it is, is all about having a mutual on which to build a society. We all agree on the rules we'll live by. Our current attitude of fear and anger dangerously chips away at this *essential* institution. If we start throwing out the rules we live by, suddenly it makes no difference to keep using the other rules we live by. If somebody knows they'll get no fair trial, they won't see any point in discretion. If *I* were in that situation, I'd say something akin to "screw it, I'll get no justice, no recourse, no mercy - might as well go nuts".

    Even "we'll give the bastard a fair trial, then we'll hang 'im" is preferable to vigilante justice. It at least acknowledges that though the evidence is overwhelming, the forms must be observed. It is the forms that hold society together.

    Sorry for the rant. At its honest core it's more about W than Onizuka. I'm just afraid to let comments like that stand and build upon themselves until people start thinking it's actually okay to say stuff like that. The "rule of law" system is teetering on the edge right now. It needs all the help it can get.
     
  11. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #11
    We also don't take joy in the ending of a life, no matter how terrible that life was. But I guess it's one of those, "would you kill Hitler" things? I don't know if I could, but I guess I admit that I'd want to.
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    It'll flush even faster with that kind of "justice". A thousand years of vendetta didn't do much for Corsica and Sicily.

    Perhaps that's why the legal system isn't run by accountants.
     
  13. whocares macrumors 65816

    whocares

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    #13
    Maybe you should do it the Chinese way and make them pay for the bullet that's used to kill them. Even cheaper. :rolleyes:
    No disrespect to any Chinese members here.


    While we're at it, why don't we sterilise everybody out there that commits a petty theft to "clean-up the race"? Maybe this guy had some mental problem? Well if he did, I guess he should have been euthanised for that anyway...
     
  14. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #14
    Believe me, I see the points you guys are making and they are very rational, and very...ummm democratic... no, FAIR. I'm not saying the things I am to be an ******* or make it seem that I'm all for offing anyone just "because."

    I believe that humans, in the most general sense, don't learn anymore unless its from violence. We have people who every day sexually assault children, rape women, abuse both women and children, and murder, just like this scumbag did.

    It seems it's getting worse, and I'm willing to bet its because our justice system IS screwed up.

    This guy would have had a trial, and his lawyer would have pleaded insanity and the guy would be out of jail in 15-20 years. That's not good enough. I'm sorry, but it's not. Because chances are he'll do it again. Look at rapists. A vast majority of them get out of jail and do it again, same with Child Molesters.

    It just pisses me off that someone with an ounce of drugs (that they are not selling but using for themselves) gets a heftier penalty than these sick bastards.

    Now, just imagine if we took a rapist, who had a trial and was convicted, and tortured him to death... any single one of them, and made the video feed downloadable. I can guarentee that RAPE would drop SEVERELY. Do the same with a Child Molester, and a Murderer. People would finally start realizing that "oh ****, if I do something like this, I'll end up like this guy!"

    Of course, the punishment should fit the crime. A car thief shouldn't be tortured or killed, but taking his hand might be a just penalty.

    But back to my point, I agree that there has to be a system in place, I just believe the system needs to be brought back down to ground. We both see the same points of regression from our justice system, we just wish the resolution be from different terms. Hopefully this gives you some perspective into my feelings and views, and doesn't make me as bad as this guy was.
     
  15. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #15
    No, you're wrong: there have always been innumerable total scumbags. We hear about them more, is all. Besides, would you apply these "rules" to the huge (apparently) numbers of people who keep their molestation within the family?

    I feel there is a hidden bias at work here in the legal system: the vast majority of rapists and child molesters are men. It would pose too many awkward questions if the men who, by and large, administer the system were to admit that their libidos were controllable, and set the sentences accordingly. It would be like betraying their own sex.

    No argument there...

    Whoa there!! You want Sharia'a Law? OT justice? You want to bring back stoning for adultery, too? How about gang-raping unfaithful wives? Haven't "we" moved on from there?

    I'm sorry, O, but if you're for cutting the hands off thieves, you're worse, in my eyes.
     
  16. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #16
    Your generalization on repeat sexual offenders is wrong. According to the DoJ, between 3% and 5% of sexual offenders are re-arrested for new sexual crimes. I don't excuse these criminals, but we need the correct information in order to arrive at a useful solution to the problem.
     
  17. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #17
    how the hell did he end up in Arkansas is my question. For away from New Bedford.

    However i am not surprised this sort of thing happened in New Bedford, good city just really really bad people.
     
  18. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #18
    No, nothing so brutish. I never suggested those types of punishments. The whole "gang-rape" scenario you just shoved in there is exactly what I'm against.

    I'm sorry you feel that way. But, can't stop you from having your own feelings or opinions on these topics or on me. So I won't try to persuade you.

    Oh, that's right, I put him on my ignore list some time ago. Silly me.
     
  19. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #19
    This is pure speculation and is not rooted in current trends. Nearly every attempt at pleading insanity is dismissed these days. As sensational as the Twinkie Defense might be as an anecdote, it's not something that ever really happens.

    Criminals commit crimes either not caring if they're caught or not believing they'll be caught. Your solution of capital punishment would not work on them. What it would do is kill a lot of people falsely accused of rape or child molestation and give us multitudes of handless people falsely convicted of car theft.
     
  20. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #20
    We could just give rapists drugs. That would fix everything. Well maybe not, but same logic. Quit while you're ahead O. Seriously.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  22. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #22
    Almost 2500 years ago a man named Aeschylus wrote a series of three plays called the Oresteia. It all about vengeance and blood feud and why the law must be based on something else. Perhaps that lesson of two and a half millennia ago still needs to be learned by a few modern denizens of this planet.
     
  23. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #23
    Geez sayhey, no need to harpie on about ancient history. Give it oreste already.;)
     
  24. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #24
    Thank you, I needed that.:D
     
  25. whocares macrumors 65816

    whocares

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    #25
    Shall we call you Adolf, or would you prefer Saddam? :rolleyes:


    May I suggest you get yourself out of your comfy-country to some other country where the kind of judicial system you've described actually exists (or lack of judicial system) and see for yourself what it does to society. Then return home and ponder why you would prefer to live where you do.
     

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