genetics... wow.

Discussion in 'Community' started by cleo, May 19, 2002.

  1. macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #1
    ok, so i'm just flipping out a bit and thought i'd share this with you all, since we're all so close...

    i'm gay (as you all know)... so is my brother... so is one of my cousins... and now her twin sister is on aim telling me how she's fallen in love with another woman!

    what are the odds? sheesh.
     
  2. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #2
    hmm, that's interesting.

    now i hate to be ignorant, but the only way to learn is to ask people who would know better...

    cleo- do you generally think people CHOOSE to be homosexual/bisexual, or that they're born with it, or that it's a product of their upbringing/surroundings, or some of each?

    i go to nyu, where a lot of the students are gay, but i haven't had the chance to talk to any of them about this. of course, i don't really talk to anyone, so that's no surprise... haha
     
  3. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #3
    Its the whole nurture vs. nature debate. Tough one to call sometimes, but there has been some indication that sexual preference can be afffected by genetics.

    I dated a woman who had 2 brothers (2 out of 3) who were gay, along with a cousin or two and I think an uncle, not sure on that. It seems to me that to call this a coincidence might be turning a blind eye to the truth.

    The only problem with that is as genetic manipulation becomes more of a reality, there is nothing from stopping some idiot from playing around with this, which opens up an even bigger debate. Have you ever seen Gattica, rent if you haven't.

    http://us.imdb.com/Title?0119177

    One other genetic item that is sticking in my head tonight is about an Italian scientist who published a paper back in the early 90s, basically stating the we (humans) should create a human-chimpanzee hybrid to be used as a slave race to do all the dirty jobs. Sounds like fiction, Planet of the Apes, etc., but he was actually serious. I looked on google, but couldn't find reference to it, I'll search again to see if I can find it somewhere else. Definitely a News Of The Weird classic.
     
  4. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #4
    i rented it once but didn't get to see it.

    i did read 1984 and brave new world... i get the two mixed up a bit, but they're at least somewhat similar in their discussion of genetics and the future and whatnot...

    i'll check into it. there's plenty of movies i should see... i guess the summer's the time to do it.
     
  5. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #5
    1984 has big brother and its double plus good! But its more of a social commentary than one based on genetics.

    A Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley (sp?) is the Utopian Society that has 3 levels of humans Alphas, Betas, and Gammas. That was a damn good book too, but I haven't read it since High School, over 20 years ago, I'll have to go and get me a copy and reread it.

    Another movie in the same vein, not really genetic exactly, is Logan's Run. This is a 70's era scifi movie, pre Star Wars, based on a society where you never grew old, because when you turned 30, you were killed. I guess for population control and such, but all the children were grown in tanks. Haven't seen that one in a while either.

    http://us.imdb.com/Title?0074812
     
  6. thread starter macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #6
    [First, a disclaimer: my sexuality is very, very much (did you know that "very" is the most overused word in the English language? :)) informed by my spirituality and my intellect, and so what I have to say reflects that. There are a hell of a lot of queens out there who knew from the time that they were 4 that they wanted cock and haven't given it a thought since. :)]

    I think what it comes down to is that humans are sexual beings, and that sexuality exists on a spectrum. (The classic Kinsey analysis.) I would wager that just about every woman on earth has thought about being with another woman at least once, and men too (although they would probably be less likely to admit it). I think that some people are more open to act on those feelings. I also think that sexuality is not set in stone. I know women who have had fulfilling marriages and children who, after their husband has died/divorced, fall in love with other women, and vice versa. I find it most helpful, instead of applying labels, to just say, "Today I feel like..."

    As for me personally, I've found that I am most attracted to people who are "down the middle" in terms of physical appearance and gender roles. I am no more attracted to Britney Spears than I am Tom Cruise. Emotionally and spiritually (and therefore sexually) I tend to connect best with people who are much more ambiguous, and, therefore, more often than not, gay.

    That having been said, I think there is definitely choice involved, as there is in anything. I could choose to be with men if I really felt the need to (and have in the past), but that's just not what does it for me. We all make choices on a daily basis about whether we are going to really express our truest selves, and for me, that means honoring my sexuality, different though it might be.

    Did that help explain things at all?
     
  7. thread starter macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #7
    Another good book in this vein is "We" by... some Russian guy. :)
     
  8. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #8
    interesting to get your take on things..

    how exactly does spirituality and such come into play? you mentioned it does, but didn't say how...

    this might come off bad... but bear with me... do straight girls get as uncomfortable around gay girls as straight guys get around gay guys? and of course, when i ask this, i mean "some" people reacting these ways, clearly not all.

    i had a gay suitemate freshman year (very flamboyant, even entered a "diva ball"... he should've won! ha) and because of his personality, his sexuality was always kinda out there, but there wasn't really any weirdness with me or my other suitemates. he was kind of a man-whore though... slept with waaaaay too many people... ahh well.

    thanks for the interesting take on these things.
     
  9. thread starter macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #9
    No, thank *you* for asking honest questions... you'd be amazed how many people just get creeped out and defensive instead of just looking at sexuality with curiosity and asking the questions to figure it out.

    As far as spirituality... I think I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm Buddhist (more on the specifics if you want, just ask). I understand that every person who enters my life is a teacher and every experience is a teacher, too. Sexuality is another opportunity for me to figure out whatever it is that I need to figure out in this life. Part of it has to do with simple desire and lust, which (obviously) are not helpers on the road to enlightenment. That's something that everybody struggles with, which is why proper use of sexuality is included in the Five Precepts. My shifting sexuality has also been a big teacher about the emptiness of ego, which is one of the biggest lessons one can learn. Also, of course, there are issues of self-esteem and craving affection that are wrapped up in sexual relationships. A lot of times people get involved in successive shallow sexual relationships just because they can't bear to just be with themselves. So whenever I feel like going out to a bar and hooking up with some stranger, that's a signal to sit down and say, "ok, what's going on inside here that you're reacting to instead of just sitting with?"

    I'm not sure if that answered your question... tell me if it didn't! :)
     
  10. macrumors 6502

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    #10
    In my lunchbreak from listening to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who is in Melbourne this week, and I discover that MacRumors' Number 1 powerdyke is a Buddhist! I'm not a Buddhist, but my girlfriend is, and we've only been together a little while, and I'm trying to learn what it's all about.

    Not a huge adherant of organised religion myself, but the man's message is good, and his presence wonderful. I'm enjoying myself.

    We need to start a thread about 'dykes and buddhism (and macs)!'

    xx

    On the genetics argument, well, Cleo, you've said it the way I would've - so I'm not going to go over it again. I'm just adding my voice to the chorus.
     
  11. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #11
    cleo:

    yeah, you basically answered my question.

    believe it or not, my interpretation of my religion (catholicism) and yours are very similar. it seems we both see there being a proper, spiritual type use for sex/sexuality... and also we see how sex through lust and such can be bad... not to say that the two are the same or anything, just pointing out how very different belief systems can relate in many ways at the core.

    personally i'm one for having sex with one person your entire life.. as per my religious beliefs. so your desires to hit up a bar to hook up doesn't really cross my mind much... ha. i mean, it does, sure, i lust... but i wouldn't do it. it's weird, it just doesn't even occur to me as a possibility. then again, i don't go to bars (i don't drink... how boring eh??? haha).

    tell me about the way girls react to you, knowing you're gay. i don't mean your friends or other gay girls. but say, classmates who you don't really "know", but they might know you're gay. i'm not sure how open you are with it, if you wear a rainbow ribbon and such... so i'm not sure how many non-close friends type of people would know you're gay.

    word.
     
  12. thread starter macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #12
    HH the Dalai Lama

    Shutupshutupshutup! I'm jealous, and quite impressed!

    I find the Dalai Lama's teachings a bit harsh - he isn't quite a gentle as Chogyam Trungpa (whose teachings I follow) - but there is no denying that he is an amazing bodhisattva. I would be honored to hear him teach sometime.

    Post again to share your experience!
     
  13. macrumors 68040

    mac15

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    #13
    I only have one gay in the family
    and that my cousin but the rest are straight....I don't have many gay friends
     
  14. macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

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    #14
    I am not gay, the only gay person in my family is a cousin (female) and she is really cool. I don't mind gay people, I have quite a few gay friends and quite a few straight friends.

    Ensign
     
  15. Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

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    #15
    my family is pre-dominately heterosexual...if there are any discrepancies I do not know of them...

    on a personal level...in the past I've felt threatened by homosexual men mainly because of my lack of confidence sexually...

    of course this is also something that can occur from lack of maturity upon the matter...

    now I don't sweat it...it's part of life...and as long as I feel secure within myself...I have nothing to worry about...

    but cleo...I do find that very intriguing...I mean seriously....what are the odds?! :confused:
     
  16. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #16
    wow, that's a very honest, humble take on your experiences.

    i bet most guys would go through something like that, especially when they're young.

    then again, some of the most "confident" guys sexually... ie, frat boys always getting in the sack with different girls, are often very ignorant and threatened by homosexuals... go figure
     
  17. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #17
    Some of it might just be ignorance and societal prejuduce. Why feel threatened? Its not like all gay guys are out to get the straight boys, ha (see, laugh for you jello).

    One really sad thing I saw about 5 years ago. I was in a country western bar - redneck's gallor. One moron had a t-shrit that had a picture of the Trix Rabbit (breakfast cereal), but instead of saying 'Trix are for kids, silly rabbit', it said 'D**ks are for girls, sillly fa**ot'.

    Now I'm not worried or bothered by homosexuality, I have a few gay friends and coworkers. This just pissed me off, not only because he thought it was funny enough to wear out on a Friday night, but that it had actually been printed. Scary. I never said anything, not wanting to start a fight and get knifed or shot by Cletus or Bubba, but I never went back to the bar.

    Yep, truly sad.

    But on a lighter note. Here in DC there are a few cultural events that the local gay community support and have become fun events for every one. On Tues. Night somewhere in Dupont Circle, they have Drag Queen Bingo, hosted by none other Xavier Bloomingdale and another I can't remember now. But also there is the Drag Race on 17th or 19th, where its a sprint down a couple of blocks, again near Dupont Circle, with all the contestants dressed in their best and wearing high heels. Very entertaining.
     
  18. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #18
    thanks for the laugh... very enthusiastic.

    that makes me sick. this was in/near dc? try living out in rural southern PA!!!

    yeah, my suitemate freshman year was in a drag competition. it was very entertaining. i didn't much like seeing guys dressed very scantily as girls.... but hey, it was fun.

    and obviously, nyc, nyu, lots of gay people. it's alllll good.
     
  19. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #19
    Nope, just right outside the beltway near Alexandria down the street from the Huntington Metro, too close, if you ask me. I would have loved to get him drunk and then drive him in to the city and drop him off in Dupont. He'd get an education, that's for sure.
     
  20. Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

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    #20
    it's no secret...

    as a society...people are often scared of things they do not understand...we tend to oppose something if it just doesn't make any sense...or if we cannot validate it...often enough it's easier to hate or shun than to face it...

    it also is a characteristic of lacking maturity...the inability to just accept without feeling like your feet are being stepped on...

    in most cases, I would venture to say that it is insecurity within a person that would make he/she have a strong, negative opinion than an accepting, positive outlook...

    as for my experiences, I've never had a homosexual experience...and I doubt I will ever have one...my hangups came from having men look at me or make their own judgements of me (ie. "he's gay, he just doesn't know it yet"..."he can dress...I mean come on!"...etc...etc..)...

    and when I look back now, I realize it was more issues I was having with myself....not necessarily a question of my own sexuality...but being comfortable in general...especially in those types of situations where my masculinity was being challenged...

    it's all B.S....just be u...as long as u know where u stand u are fine ;)
     
  21. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #21
    true dat eye.

    but generally, gay guys DO have better fashion sense! haha

    i even remember paulwhannel joking about that somewhere. good times
     
  22. thread starter macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #22
    Heh... I guess I kind of painted myself as a slut, eh? :D Not what I meant. Hmm... I don't drink much (just a good beer on special occasions)... but it's the times when I come home from work and all I can think about is how much I want to drink... those are the LAST times I do drink... instead, I have to sit and think about what the root of that craving is. For me, it's the exact same thing with sex. Although I have had more than one partner, it is something I take extremely seriously and, like I said before, as a teacher.

    As far as how people react to me, I've never really had any bad experiences. I'm not much of a flag waver, but it's not something I hide, either. In the larger scheme of my life, my sexuality isn't that huge of a deal to me, and I think people sense that and therefore aren't threatened by it. I do know some girls who claim to be bisexual (although, curiously enough, all they do is talk about and sleep with men) who are all about the rainbows and "we're here, we're queer" bit... they piss off, alienate, and threaten just about everyone, gay and straight.

    I think also because of my appearance I "pass" quite easily. I look kind of tomboyish, but I don't really fit any dykey stereotypes. The only times I've experienced verbal harassment is when I'm out with a more stereotypical dykey woman (which is rather often, as I tend to be attracted to butches and ::sigh:: drag kings). Curiously, the people yelling "dyke" and other cruel things are nine times out of ten men. My hypothesis is that most hetero women realize how trapped they are by the traditional gender roles that govern their lives, and they secretly respect lesbians for challenging and breaking out of those roles. However, men are quite threatened by women who refuse to play their game, and thus get violent about it more often.
     
  23. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #23
    no, not a slut. that's the weird thing about me... both with drinking and sex. it just doesn't occur to me to go out and hook up. or to come home from work and need a drink. i guess it's odd, but it just isn't an option for me. sure, i've had a drink of wine or whatnot to taste it, but basically have been "straightedge" since i remember... and to me, it just makes sense, spiritually as well as just physically.

    my bro has a friend (female) who's "bisexual" and he has voiced his feelings many a time that she's just using it as something to be different and such, much as you described. from what i know, she's been with women, kind of, but mostly guys (i think she's engaged to one now).

    as for men... haha. i like your phrasing of the women who "refuse to play their game".... haha. i think that sums it up. oh, and that men think with their..... so that just affects them even more.
     
  24. Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

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    #24
    u would have to add on top of that the fact that I am into art...geez...how the hell does this sh*t work out that way? :eek: :D

    having multiple sexual partners isn't a crime...I'm with cleo on this one...it's a very big deal for me...I haven't slept around just for the hell of it...besides, it's always better when u have an emotional connection with the person... ;)
     
  25. thread starter macrumors 65816

    cleo

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    #25
    Well, then you are quite evolved indeed! :D A big part of Buddhism is about really examining the parts of ourselevs that are "base" or consindered sinful or shameful. A lot of people just supress those parts and then go crazy one day. My path involves coming to terms with them as they come up without judgement. Then, when I finally reach an understanding of their causes and the lesson they have to teach me, I can touch them and let them go.

    Anyway, not meant to knock your path at all, just to share a bit of mine. (In fact, I have the greatest respect for Catholicism - I attended a confirmation recently, and the power tapped into during the rituals performed by the bishop was extremely similar to that I have experienced in certain stages of blissful meditation).
     

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