George Carlin Responds to Indecency Uproar

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacNut, Mar 13, 2004.

  1. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #1
    George Carlin Responds to Indecency Uproar
    By ANTHONY BREZNICAN, AP


    LOS ANGELES (March 12) - George Carlin famously dissected "The Seven Words You Can't Say on Television" as a way to explore what everyone was so uptight about.

    Thirty-two years later the same debate is still raging, now fueled by Janet Jackson's Super Bowl flash, the suspension of Howard Stern's raunchy radio show from six stations and new House legislation that would raise a performer's indecency fine from $11,000 to $500,000.

    So what does the 66-year-old Carlin think of the current handwringing over what is indecent, profane, obscene, immoral, lewd or insulting?

    "More of the same, more of the same. What are we, surprised?" Carlin told The Associated Press on Friday

    He blamed it on religious moralism, media commercialism and election-year politics.

    "The whole problem with this idea of obscenity and indecency, and all of these things - bad language and whatever - it's all caused by one basic thing, and that is: religious superstition.

    There's an idea that the human body is somehow evil and bad and there are parts of it that are especially evil and bad, and we should be ashamed. Fear, guilt and shame are built into the attitude toward sex and the body. ... It's reflected in these prohibitions and these taboos that we have."

    Mix that with TV or radio, and you've got a problem, he said.

    "What I always remind people is, radio and television and - as it happens - newspapers and magazines too, are advertising media. ... When you have commercialism involved you have the kind of fear that advertisers are very afraid of offending some potential customer. They don't want to lose a sale. So they have this need to inspect and clean up and watch the content in order not to hurt their own sales. It's based on success at the cash register.

    "And yet, they're very inconsistent- on that Super Bowl broadcast of Janet Jackson's there was also a commercial about a 4-hour erection. A lot of people were saying about Janet Jackson, 'How do I explain to my kids? We're a little family, we watched it together ...' And, well, what did you say about the other thing? These are convenient targets."

    He also thinks President Bush is trying to placate right-wing voters.

    The U.S. Air Force veteran compared the recent tension with memories of his military experience.

    "These bursts of interest and decency are just like when you're in the Air Force, Army and Marines, whatever - the discipline in your unit may get a little lax, people live with it, it's fine for months at a time then some colonel notices it and suddenly they crack down ... enforcing all the minor rules and regulations. Then what happens after these bursts of bothering people, that wears off and we get back to normal, relaxed discipline, but things still get done.

    "Society can be counted on to let this fade."

    On the Net:

    http://www.georgecarlin.com
     
  2. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #2
    The First Amendment must be protected. It is most important to guard this speech when it comes to speech that we don't like. Both sides are trying to use it to their advantage.

    George Carlin seems to wrestle with the same problems that the rest of us confront.
     
  3. coopdog macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #3
    "It is most important to guard this speech when it comes to speech that we don't like." Then it wouldn't be free.
     
  4. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    washington dc
    #4
    uhhh... i def blame it ON THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A NIPPLE ON THE TV!

    its just about a little decency folks, c'mon... what's next? hardcore porn instead of soap operas? i think the uproar was warrented... :rolleyes:
     
  5. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #5
    um, what? are you suggesting that speech should only be free when it doesn't offend the majority?

    anyway, i happen to agree entirely with Carlin, I don't know if i blame it entirely on religion, as he does, but society in general has a huge problem with the human body, and religion does enforce the belief that certain body parts are and must be taboo. the naughtier we make these body parts, the more power they hold-- i don't think it would have happened, if it didn't convey immense shock value, oh lordy lordy a breast on TV, whatever shall we do. Emphasis on the nipple shield here. if a breast was just a breast, a mammary gland that over 50% of the population have, it wouldn't have been worth the effort. No one would care. It would be so much nicer.

    I think America is one of the most uptight nations in history when it comes to body image, and that is starting to really show itself as society becomes more nuanced, America is showing a neuroses about it. Along with "indecency" in the media, we have the ever-expanding market for weight loss, and the once-niche-now-mainstream market for sexual aids, medications, enhancements and surgeries. When are people just going to stop? preoccupation with "evil" body parts causes a lot of harm with no benefit.

    paul
     
  6. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    sitting on your shoulder
    #6
    I don't agree with his placement of blame, but he is one funny mofo.
     
  7. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #7
    I don't think Soap Operas are that far off from being porn, plus have you seen the Ron Jeremy show on late night TV, oh and don't forget the Viagra commercials. Im surprised people don't get offended every time they go to the bathroom because its "dirty behavior" :rolleyes:
     
  8. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Location:
    Wakayama, Japan
    #8
    What a fantastic idea, lets let anyone say and do whatever they want. That won't cause any problems. If you want to use that language and behavior in your own home, fine, but we live in a society that functions because we all agree on some basic standards. Frankly I think that the dance number was just as offensive. Lyrics and dance moves like that objectify women and make us think of them MORE as sex objects, the freedom to talk about it any way we want isn't going to make people less likely to see it as much as trying to treat it with more respect is.

    Don't kid yourselves, Janet Jacksons little breast exposure after that song isn't artististic or respectful. The Venus de Milo is. People who claim that we are causing problems by being disgusted by that kind of behavior amaze me. Frankly I wish we had gotten more upset sooner. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do what they want, even on TV, but there are places (cable, late night, xxx videos) where it is appropriate, and network tv during a game watched by the WHOLE family is not. We have a right to be able to let our kids watch tv without having to be afraid that what they watch is going to end up like that. Now i'm not saying we should be able to let them watch tv on their own, but the Super Bowl is one that should be able to watched without that fear. NYPD blue probably not.
     
  9. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #9
    I thought separation of church and state was supposed to solve these problems but it seems that church keeps creeping in on state and nobody is saying anything about it. Im Catholic and go to church but come on i'm also free to watch what i want to on TV and not be forced to feel ashamed about what i watch or be told that its bad. It seems that we are freeing Iraq of the things that are starting to happen here.
     
  10. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #10
    I agree that kids shouldn't watch that stuff on TV but i also think that the reason this stuff is on TV is because people want to see it. Blame that on the loss of family values or that America is a bunch of pigs but the fact is that TV makes money and will continue to make money as long as people watch. Want to change it don't watch or better yet teach your kids right from wrong and we wouldn't be in this mess now. As i recall the older generation grew up on Looney Tunes with cartoon violence and they turned out alright.
     
  11. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #11
    nono... despite the fact that the constitution lays out a policy that must be (and has been, by the courts) defined as a strict "wall of separation", the USA was founded, apparently, as a Christian nation, and aside from that, most people that live here check a box for "christian" on surveys and polls, so the church gets to dictate policy :)

    sorry you were confused about that...

    hate to shock you, but children know what breast are, children have at least a basic idea of sex.. children always have. beyond that, they see anything as harmless that doesn't have a connotation in their mind. In days past, children slept in their parents bed, and not only understood but witnessed sex... as a matter of regularity! it was just another part of life. beyond that, they see it as anything inherently evil. to put it another way,

    http://www.ebaumsworld.com/dirtymindtest.html

    people should look at things like this, and say "well that's just tacky, i must say". not OH MY GOD that reminds me of SEX and that TRAUMATIZES me, i must see news stories about this, make sure the image gets run as many times as possible, and generally have a massive hissy fit.

    people who were watching the superbowl (and the children that watch too) are watching pointless, glorified, recreational violence... don't kid yourself about what themes children are picking up from TV.


    paul
     
  12. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
  13. coopdog macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #13

    Oh, did I misread wdloves post? I thought he was saying that we should guard/censor speech we dont like. **** the majority.
     
  14. coopdog macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #14

    Do you have any idea how many pics out there show cheerleaders doing thoes high kicks and their pusses’ pop out or their tits pop out of the super low tops?!

    The cheerleaders do everything but show their tits, but no one complains because "it is part of the game."

    I could see how people would be so pissed if this flashing was at chess game for kids with autism, not a violent game like football.

    The US is really moving backwards in terms of how everyone is all uptight about. Oh my god.... The HUMAN BODY!!!!!!! AHHHHHHH RUN!


    How does Europe do it?!
     
  15. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #15
    1. Seperation of Church and State was intended to protect the Church from the State. It was reafirmation<sp?> that the government would not establish a national religion and/or force people to worship a single religion chosen by the state. Something like the Church of England, which for a time people were required by law to be members of and could not follow any other religion, is what the founding fathers were trying to aviod. They were securing freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.


    2. I do think America, as a society, is way to uptight about somethings. Boobies being one of them. It's only a big deal because people make a big deal out of it.
    "What's that daddy?"
    "Son, that was a nipple."
    "What's a nipple?"
    "Well son, when Ms. Jackson has a baby her boby will start producing milk which is what her baby will eat for a while. That milk will be stored in her breasts and when the baby is hungry he'll suck on her nipple to get the milk out."
    "Kinda like Fluffy and her pupies?"
    "Yes, exactly like Fluffy and her puppies."

    For all of the people who post-boobie exclamined something to the effect of, "Now I have to explain to my 8 yr old kid what a boobie is" will you please chime in and tell me what is so horribly wrong about telling your 8 yr old kid (who $20 says already knows boobs exisit and has probably seen a pic of one already) why women have boobs?


    3. I pretty much agree w/Carlin.

    If you want less sex on TV then stop treating sex, and sexual things, as naughty and forbiben. It's human nature to want something you can't/aren't supposed to have. The people who keeping yelling, "this is bad get it off our airwaves" are hurting their "cause" not helping it. It's just like when tons of people protested Marilyn Manson 5 or 6 years ago. Their protests didn't make him go away. Their protests made him a superstar. If it wasn't for those protesters MM would just be another guy in another band making a decent living as a shocker rocker instead of the pop-superstar that he is today.


    Lethal
     
  16. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Location:
    Wakayama, Japan
    #16
    So we shouldnt' complain about something because we haven't complained before? As for football being a violent game, you obviously don't understand it very well. Agressive yes, violent, only when it gets out of hand, like baseball, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc. As for the human body, its not the fact that the human body is shown, its HOW it was shown.

    If you want to be able to watch naked people running around, fine, there is a time and place for that, but we live in a society and a society has to abide by a certain amount of standards of public decency. You can't just rip of your clothes and start having sex with someone in public because we as a society have decided that is an innapropriate place to do so. In private go for it. People are saying that on the public airwaves we should have a minimum level of decency, and that this actually crosses the line of what is alllready not allowed. Has there been a laxity in enforcing the allready existing rules? Probably, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. As long as you aren't prohibiting the behavior all together then I have no problem with wanting to keep this sort of thing out of certain areas.

    Again this isn't about not allowing the human body or sex to be seen at all, its about HOW it was portrayed. Do you really want your kids to be exposed to sex by some guy ripping off a girls clothes? You want to talk about unhealthy sexual teaching, I think thats pretty bad.
     
  17. crookedcharlie macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    #17
    That's incorrect on just about every level imagineable.

    The United States was not founded as a "christian nation." It was founded by Deists, mostly. Men of faith, but not tied to any particular religion.

    Secondly, no matter how many Christians live in the United States, the Church does not get to dictate any policy. At all. They are constitutionally madated to keep their noses out of ALL goverment affairs. What you're talking about is a Theocracy, and if you want two examples of a Theocracy:

    Taliban-Controlled Afganistan.

    Saudi Arabia.

    Keep the church out of the states business. It's really quite simple.
     
  18. crookedcharlie macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    #18
    Incorrect. It was meant to protect the state from the church as well, and promised every citizen their own choice in how much religion they wanted in their life, (ie; their goverment) INCLUDING NONE.
     
  19. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Location:
    Michigan
    #19
    Don't forget Iran.
     
  20. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #20
    When someone gets offended by simple nudity it says a lot about that person's sexual dysfunction.

    I don't give a **** about Janet Jackson's breast. If everyone else felt the same way, she wouldn't have done what she did.
     
  21. coopdog macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #21
    Your right. Compared to chess, football (that I watch every weekend) is non-violent, forget about thoes broken bones, knecks, hard sacks. No doubt hockey is the most violent sport, besides the veriations of fighting sports ie. boxing.

    So it's not the word **** that is bad it is how it's said?

    "If you want to be able to watch naked people running around, fine"

    Yes, they should be fine ladies.

    "You can't just rip of your clothes and start having sex with someone in public." Yes you can, you will just be arrested.

    "Do you really want your kids to be exposed to sex by some guy ripping off a girls clothes?"

    It's not like he raped her. The people I was watching the game with didn't even notice that it happened. I saw it, at first I thought it was an accident. It's not really that hard to explain. "Well son, her top fell off, it was a mistake. OK daddy!" Skeet Skeet Skeet! :eek:

    Again, I'm off to europe where I can watch porn in an orange juice commericals and people arn't all up tight about sex.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #22
    about protecting the kids... the female nipple is one of the first things that a huge number of babies experience. i don't understand how that can be "dirty".

    i'll submit that a lot of the problems present in the US are rooted in repression caused by the society's aversion to the human form. other societies embrace the human form and avoid excessive violence. maybe we (the US) should try that.
     
  23. coopdog macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #23

    Totally. Kids suck on their mom's boobs up untill about two or so. Then boobs go from being a nessicity for child growth to something that is dirty and unspeakable. :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:
     
  24. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2001
    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #24
    Carlin is still getting attacked?

    arg.
    It was on for 3 seconds!

    and its a part of EVERYONE's body!

    Male, Female -- > Doesn't matter we both have them!

    haha.

    Cheerleaders... what do you want? Teenagers need a mix of sex every 5 minutes or their hormones might force their bodies to explode!


    Did you know... that nude beachs are accecptable for all ages in Europe?


    :watches someones head blow off in the U.S after reading that:

    :mad:
     
  25. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    #25
    I saw the Howard Stern movie and one with Woody Harrelson playing a porn king (can't remember his name) and those two movies are what made me realize how true your statement is! Even though I don't like porn and I don't care for HS's program I realize that if their speech isn't protected, mine isn't either.
     

Share This Page