Gitmo

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Desertrat, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #1
    First off, I don't know of anybody who's posted here who condones physical injury as a legitimate form of "interrogation". Further, there have been all manner of allegations of treatment of those in prison at Gitmo. I ran across this article awhile ago:

    http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/o...y_kindness_opedcolumnists_richard_miniter.htm

    From the article, it seems that the physical well-being of prisoners isn't a matter of concern, and their legal rights are not ignored:

    "...Some 1,000 lawyers represent 440 prisoners, all on a pro bono basis..."

    Health? How about:

    "Some 5,000 dental operations (including teeth cleanings) and 5,000 vaccinations on a total of 550 detainees have been performed since 2002 - all at taxpayer expense. Eyeglasses? 174 pairs handed out. Twenty two detainees have taxpayer-paid prosthetic limbs."

    FWIW,

    'Rat
     
  2. FatTony macrumors regular

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  3. emw macrumors G4

    emw

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    #3
    It does present an interesting irony. In the most visible front for the war on terrorism, the war in Iraq, we used unnecessary violence (attacking a country that in all likelihood was at best peripherally involved in all of this), while in the front that may potentially yield the most real information, we aren't harsh enough.

    Of course, in both cases were are ridiculously ineffective, failing to provide any real improvement in "safety" and in fact likely creating more danger to ourselves by continuing to alienate entire cultures in our quest to spread the democratic love.

    On a positive note, we get to see the cell structure at work. :rolleyes:
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    And how many charges have been brought?

    Would you be counting the tooth fillings and lawyers if US nationals were being held incommunicado and without charges for two or three years? Would you accept that as evidence of said US national's well-being, despite persistent rumors of physical and mentally abusive torture being SOP?
     
  5. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #5
    Those captured while bearing arms against us: I see them as being in the same condition as the POWs of WW II: In for the duration. My caveat would be that those who could be paroled and trusted not to again take up arms could be re-patriated. From what's said about their behavior, though, that doesn't seem to be a likely possibility.

    Those arrested for alleged criminality: They should be charged and the normal legal processes followed, or they should be released. That is, however, a separate matter from the manner of treatment during incarceration.

    'Rat
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #6
    So you'd be cool with US servicepersons being held "for the duration" as well?
     
  7. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #7
    "Held" would be a refreshing change from physical-damage torture and beheading. Are you stipulating decent diet, proper medical care, accomodation of religious views, etc.?

    'Rat
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    I'm stipulating the same conditions we hold our GWOT captives in. And that includes rendition, waterboarding, stress positions, the occasional beating, hypothermic cells, the so-called "attention grabs" etc.

    And yes, they can have their bibles and their couscous and their teeth filled, in between "aggressive interrogations".
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Do they get a Terrorist™ version of Lynndie English?
     
  10. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #10
    mac, I've already said my say about "waterboarding", etc.

    'Rat
     
  11. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #11
    Interesting article. I'm glad my money went there instead of, you know, public schools, feeding the homeless, investing in alternative fuels... :rolleyes:

    On the other side, I do believe that some force is alright in interrogation. A few smacks in the face, a punch or two. Do I think stress positions or demoralizing someone to an animal's level is okay? Absolutely not.
     
  12. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #12
    So you'd be completely happy for your fellow countrymen to treated the same way?
     
  13. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #13
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    Tellilng that you won't answer the question yourself...

    But IOW, no you wouldn't accept Americans being treated the same as we treat our captives is what it sounds like.

    Do you have any concept of how that makes other people view the US and our efforts?
     
  15. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #15
    Of course not. Any sane person would never be happy with the use of torture. The problem is there are times when it becomes absolutely necessary in order to save thousands of lives.

    No one can endure water-boarding. That's the point. So don't start saying "what if your enemy did water-boarding" because chances are they do things far worse.

    Saving American lives trumps the terrorist's well being any day.

    I do not, however, want anyone to be able to authorize water-boarding any time they want. I'd rather have it be a last measure only the President can issue.
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    All analyses of torture I've ever seen have established that torture doesn't actually achieve any beneficial results.
     
  17. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #17
    Absolutely. Torture me and I will admit to anything, that's why it is flawed as a technique.
     
  18. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #18
    Have any better techniques? If so, I'd like to hear it.
     
  19. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #19
    I didn't say I'd be "happy" if anyone would be hit during interrogation. I said I think it's alright, because it's necessary at times. It's when you go past that and beat them bloody, attach electrodes to testicles, put them in stress positions or sick dogs on them that you're going out of bounds. A few punches when someone has refused to cooperate, will let them know you mean business. I think if you go any further than that you're forcing them to answer you when they don't ahve the answers you're looking for, and that's wrong.
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #20
    Listen to the experienced interrogators. You develop a relationship with the suspect, then exploit that relationship.

    This is the way police get information all the time.
     
  21. emw macrumors G4

    emw

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    #21
    So instead of giving them dental appointments, we need to get them all memberships on eHarmony.com.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    very interesting piece about the camp, from the latest issue of new york times magazine, here.

    long read but worth it.
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    No no, not an eros relationship. An agape relationship. :p
     
  24. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #24
    This is so cowardly. There is no way you'd put up with your innocent family members being punched in the head to see if they know something. Someone else's innocent family members is fine. Just to let them know we mean business.

    How very noble of you.
     
  25. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #25
    It appears to achieve the perception that the military is doing everything necessary to save thousands of our fellow countrymen's lives. Which is what it's really about. Political spin at the expense of America's worldwide integrity.
     

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