Global warming: the final verdict

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    toronto
    #1
    guardian

    i know i'm risking a whole 'nother round of cries of junk science, but this piece is interesting in how more certain the so-called junk scientists are becoming.

    just thought i'd share.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    If this is such a conservative scenario (and I use the word in the loosest possible sense), I'd like to know what a "worst-case" version would be.
     
  3. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #3
    Unless you can stop everyone from driving cars or stop cows from farting there is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
     
  4. highres macrumors 6502a

    highres

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    #4
    What a load of crap, you really need to do some research before spouting off ignorant answers like that. There are many fairly easy things you can do that will make a difference. Ignorance like you displayed above is easy to remedy.

    Or are you one of those people that says global warming is still a myth? Even after worldwide panels of scientists and experts agree that we have a serious problem on our hands.

    Start here:

    http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/whatyoucando/index.html
     
  5. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #5
    I wish we could get data going back 1000 years. Since the records only go back like 110 its hard to determine what is a normal cycle from global warming.
     
  6. highres macrumors 6502a

    highres

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    #6
    Via ice core samples from Soviet Station Vostok in Antarctica they are able to go back MUCH further than 1000 years, they can get accurate data from as far back as 200,000 years at least if not earlier.

    http://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/ees/climate/labs/vostok/

    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Paleoclimatology_IceCores/

    http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
     
  7. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #7
    But it's not hard to determine that human activity over the last 100+ years has had a very negative effect on the planet. Cutting back our hydrocarbon usage isn't just about global warming but our health and such things as water and air quality.
     
  8. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #8
    I agree but when they say hottest year on record and they only go back 100 years, that doesn't say much since the Earth is a few billion years old.
     
  9. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    It's possible to tell what the sea temperature was thousands of years back from ice-cores and sediment analysis. "Hottest year on record" just refers to the advent of accurate thermometers.
     
  10. Scarlet Fever macrumors 68040

    Scarlet Fever

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    #10
    Even if we aren't the direct cause of global warming, you can't deny that pumping the skies with greenhouse gases isn't doing some kind of damage. It may be some kind of cycle, but we must be altering the system somehow.
     
  11. bozigle macrumors regular

    #11
    That is sooooooo sad and depressing to see that some people still think like that... stopping people from using their car is not even a viable option... going for hybrid or biodiesel or any environment friendly , using common transportation would be a good start.
    As for the farting cow... i do not think that everyone should be vegetarian... but people eat much more meat that they really need... that could also reduce the amount of farting cow.

    I encourage you to look for what individual can do in their daily life or as pressure group in order to change things... unless of course you're naturaly pesimist and consider we are already doomed... in wich case, without being prophet i can tell you that this little piece of earth won't be much fun in the coming decade.

    A LOT of things can be done...

    bozigle
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    Apparently my previous tongue in cheek post was deleted, so I'll just make my point a little clearer and say this is a very defeatist attitude. I'd rather we do something, because doing nothing is just going to make the matter worse. Unless you're one of those who wants to hide their heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem.

    If they're right, and global warming is real, we can at least help to prevent it. If they're wrong, we've spent a little money to make driving cheaper and clean the very real problem of pollution. Unless you don't believe in that either.
     
  13. EGT macrumors 68000

    EGT

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    #13
    Education and awareness is key. Energy saving light bulbs, turning off appliances when not in use, not running the drier at 40* with ony a pair of socks in it, etc. :rolleyes:

    We're also thinking of putting a wood-chip boiler (it'll do pellets, shavings and logs) into our house instead of an oil boiler for heating. That and getting proper insulation to make it more efficient.

    Any MR members know anything about wood-chip boilers? :eek: :cool:
     
  14. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #14
    very popular for new built houses.. (as long as you have those transport "screws".. you know like the archimedes thing)
    pellets have the problem of price and sensibility to water .. they have to be kept very dry
    another thing worth looking at is a heat pump solution (which are booming totally insane) especially if living somewhere with high ground water levels and high temperatures during summer
    or of course a combination of the two
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #15
    Gonna cut 'n' run on the environment eh? It's almost like you want the global warming to win. Maybe you're giving global warming aid and comfort...

    I'll echo solvs - what a load of defeatist crap. If we can't halt all emissions all at once right now, there's no point in trying? Our only two options are All or None?

    Get your eyes fixed sir, you're missing all the shades of grey out there!
     
  16. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #16
    LOL :D This thread is getting a little warm. :)

    So, okay, say you have this HUGE boulder. It takes massive amounts of energy to get it to move, right. Well its going to take massive amounts of energy to get it to stop.

    So what do you think could stop global warming? How long would it take?

    This "take action" site is nice

    http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeact...ndo/index.html

    However, even if the 300 million or so people in the US start conserving right now, there are almost a BILLION people in china who arent.

    For the record, I'm all for trying.
     
  17. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #17
    at least decades ... if we _seriously_ start and not this "but the economy" whining you get as excuses from a lot of politician or the flat out ignoring which is even worse

    the problem with global warming is that it actually turns into a "runaway process" if not stopped before the "point of no return"(which is opposed to the movie "back to the future 3" not known and there is of course no time machine to get saved from the train wreck):

    the problem is that the biggest,most dangerous gas for the atmosphere is h2o ... yeah vaporized water is accounting to 60% of all greenhouse gasses..
    the thing is that: if the temperature on average increases more h2o vaporizes, which of course increases the temperature because of the greenhouse effect etc.
    the h2o cycle including rain is a very sensible cycle so our amount of _additional_ greenhouse gases possible could already have been enough to pass the point of no return and thus the global warming might never be stopped

    if you want to know what happens to a planet where such a runaway circle happens you simply have to look at venus our neighbor in the solar system


    sure we only account to perhaps 40% of the temperature increase and the rest might be volcanos etc. but that 40% might already be too much

    and i guess we all don't want to risk ruin it for all those coming after us ... after all this is our only planet we will be able to live on
    except politicians who just happen to think in legislation period dimensions
     
  18. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #18
    Unless we all (individuals, businesses, organisations, governments, etc) start making changes to the way we live our lives, then the human species is doomed. It isn't scare-mongering, it's a fact.

    And using China, India and the other industrialising nations as an excuse doesn't work. Where we lead, the others - when they can afford to - will eventually follow.
     
  19. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #19
    Eric Pianka has a slightly less Pollyannaish view of the possible future:


    http://www.rense.com/general70/massdeath.htm

    But Pianka, a 38-year UT educator, maintains he's not campaigning for genocide. He likens mankind's story to an unbridled party on a luxury cruise liner. The fun's going strong on the upper deck, he says. But as crowds blindly absorb the festivities, many fail to notice the ship is sinking.

    "The biggest enemy we face is anthropocentrism," he said, describing the belief system in which humans are the central element of the universe. "This is that common attitude that everything on this Earth was put here for [human] use."
     
  20. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #20
    you know 15 years ago everybody around here said "why should we here in austria separate our garbage and recycle, when in the united states they throw everything together and they are hundred millions more"

    and also for china, considered this: how many of that pollution is created while making products for europe and the US etc. , you can bet on it that it is a lot

    6 years ago the US was one of the leading producers of new wind energy power plants
    now you have been surpassed by Spain
     
  21. elfin buddy macrumors 6502a

    elfin buddy

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    #21
    Heh, thanks for clarifying your lack of a scientific foundation.

    Try looking up some information about dynamic equilibrium. The Earth is a large-scale example of one and we still haven't moved too far into the process of shifting the equilibrium, which is why we are only now beginning to see minute effects.

    Also, check this out...

    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn5038

    Perfect example of what I'm talking about.
     
  22. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Reality
    #22
    From the FWIW file:

    Washington Post

    Now I'm not so naive as to believe Democrats will having us all driving electric cars in two years, but it's nice to see somebody taking political risks to move us in the right direction. I'm liking Pelosi more and more.

    But...something better come of all this. We just can't afford to keep screwing around anymore.
     
  23. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #23
    I find it mind boggling that anyone such as our president can sit there and pretend thousands of factories and billions of heat creating cars and their exhuast emissions arent changing the Earths atmosphere? We have been in denial for decades but when you have a govt for the corporations by the corporations what do you expect? Im glad this knowlege is breaking out of the Neocon mindset. Its good we are talking about it at last. We should be pushing clean energy solutions we have the technology we just dont have the political will to get anything done.

    Example Old George says at the last state of the union we are hooked on Oil but what has he done about it other then Lip service?
     
  24. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #24
    You do realize that the United States produces most of our environmental problems and do you also realize how many people in China use bikes compared to us. I'll try to dig up some factual numbers but it's a much higher percentage than us.

    jon
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    The United States, with less than 5% of the world's population, uses about 25% each of the world's oil, natural gas and electricity.

    Our economy does not account for this consumption, as per-GDP usage is not on par with other industrialized nations.
     

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