Going from Prosumer to DSLR, D40 or D50? Earnest Advice Needed!

[Clix Pix]

While I'll agree his fanboyism is over the top, he does contribute meaningfully, if not for his anti-everything-Nikon I think he'd be more valuable than not.

I don't wonder that he gets attacked ever other post though, it's the first time I've been tempted to ignore someone on a forum.

He kinda reminds me of the old USENET kooks though...

I guess I must have missed the meaningful posts, then.... Coldrain's negative attitude and his know-it-all approach turned me off pretty quickly. (The thought has crossed my mind more than once that his user name should be "Wet Blanket.") Actually, this guy reminds me a little of Ken Rockwell: quick to comment and provide his opinion and offer negative criticism (which may or may not be warranted) without ever necessarily having seen or handled a given camera or lens.... I'd venture to guess that he has not handled 99% of the lenses or camera bodies which he nitpicks. IMHO reading and quoting from the same sole review source or repeatedly stressing what he perceives as benefits of one camera or lens over another is not a valid way of establishing the superiority of a particular lens or camera body over another. Measurebating may work on paper, but there is nothing to replace actual handling and use of a given camera or lens. IMHO his approach rather impairs his credibility,especially when on a forum where there may be people who are indeed familiar with said cameras or lenses and who actually own and use them on a regular basis.

Ah, yes, you're quite right....something about this does rather remind me of the old days of Usenet and rec.photo.digital or the other photo newsgroups! There were sure some characters on there.... Also he would fit in nicely at DPR, where there is loads of measurebating and lots of people trying to inflate their sense of self-importance.....

 

[compuwar]

Ah, yes, you're quite right....something about this does rather remind me of the old days of Usenet and rec.photo.digital or the other photo newsgroups! There were sure some characters on there.... Also he would fit in nicely at DPR, where there is loads of measurebating and lots of people trying to inflate their sense of self-importance.....

I kinda miss the good-old-days. Joel Furr t-shirts and all... I pretty-much started out on alt.aol-sucks, which was the predominant flame group of the era. I do miss the trolling kooks though- something I never thought I'd say. Today's trolls just done have the same level of commitment!

Ah well- as we've seen time and time again, fractional flaws don't stop people from making salable pictures, as much as some people must be disappointed by aforesaid issues.

Blackwater's looking interesting, ever shot there?

 

[Clix Pix]

I kinda miss the good-old-days. Joel Furr t-shirts and all... I pretty-much started out on alt.aol-sucks, which was the predominant flame group of the era. I do miss the trolling kooks though- something I never thought I'd say. Today's trolls just done have the same level of commitment!

Ah well- as we've seen time and time again, fractional flaws don't stop people from making salable pictures, as much as some people must be disappointed by aforesaid issues.

Blackwater's looking interesting, ever shot there?

Haven't got up to Blackwater yet, but it is somewhere I want to explore.... In November and December had several runs up to Conowingo Dam for the eagles, but apparently action there is slowing down a lot, so it's time to seek out somewhere else....

 

[compuwar]

Haven't got up to Blackwater yet, but it is somewhere I want to explore.... In November and December had several runs up to Conowingo Dam for the eagles, but apparently action there is slowing down a lot, so it's time to seek out somewhere else....

2 dozen of them on the 18th of December- totally rocked! After that they faded fast

 

[filmamigo]

Back to the OP:

I have been looking closely at DSLR's for a while. I shoot 35mm and medium format film, and have been patiently waiting for DSLRs to deliver the imagery AND convenience I am used to from film. I am pretty brand-agnostic -- my 35mm cameras include an almost-new Nikon F80, and some classics (Canon TL and Pentax Spotmatic F.)

Having a little bit of experience with SLRs helped me cut through the confusion as I look at DSLRs. Here is what I have learned:

1) They all make great pictures. Don't sweat the image quality between brands or between cameras. Unless you are going to shoot portraits of presidents or landscapes that will be blown up to 10'x30', every DSLR delivers the goods.

2) The viewfinder matters. Put it up to your eye -- can you easily see every corner of the frame? Is the image bright and clear? Can you easily judge focus? This is mostly a personal preference, and the technical specs can't tell you how comfortable the viewfinder will be for you. The viewfinder is (after the lens) the most important part of a camera, because it is where you make every critical decision about framing, composition and focus. When you are photographing, you live in that viewfinder. My Canon TL has the best, brightest viewfinder of them all, the F80 is OK, the Spotmatic is horrible. Yet the Spotmatic F is a very highly regarded classic camera -- so the viewfinder isn't something that most people discuss. In the current range of DLSRs, every camera offers a different viewfinder experience. The best I have used so far was the D70. The D40 and D80 are pretty good, the D50 is good. But your evaluation might be different.

3) The grip matters. Do you like holding the camera? If you do, you will be more likely to carry it with you. Stupid, but true. I dislike the feeling that I may drop a $600 camera at any minute -- and the Canon Rebel and the D40 both give me that feeling. It's a combination of grip design and materials used. In my hands, nothing feels as secure and comfortable as my F80, but the D70 and D80 are very sure-footed. The D50 is quite comfortable. I also really like the grip on the Pentax K100D. Your mileage will vary, so you have to try them out. The importance of the grip increases exponentially when you add a larger/heavier lens. With a kit lens, most cameras will feel OK. Now imagine adding another 1.5 pounds, hanging off the front of the camera. Still feel secure?

4) Control. You need to know/guess/play around with how you will use the camera on a daily basis. If you will be putting the camera into "Full Auto Program" mode, then don't worry about controls. Any design will do, because all you really need is a shutter release. However, the reason I am looking at DSLRs is because I want to have a digital camera that gives me the same control as my SLRs and medium format cameras. Using the "Manual" exposure mode, where you set the aperture and shutter speed yourself, is really only useful if the controls for aperture and shutter are immediately available and readable. The D40 for me is VERY crippled by not having the secondary LCD screen. You have to push the INFO button to get the camera display fired up, and then adjust the shutter speed and aperture using the command wheel and aperture button. Compare this to my F80, or the D70 or the D80. Set the camera to Manual, change the aperture with the wheel under your index finger, change the shutter with the wheel under your thumb, and read both settings off the top LCD screen. It seems like a small difference, but to me the added steps to use Manual control in the D40 will keep me from using Manual controls as much as I like. The D50 is a reasonable compromise, simply requiring you to press the Aperture button to use the single command wheel for both Aperture and Shutter.

The bottom line is: you have to handle all of the cameras. Give yourself a good long time to play with them. Think about it for a day, then go back to the store and play with them again. Give yourself more than a "first impression" of the cameras. See which one is comfortable, lets you visualize the picture you are taking, and lets you shoot how you want to shoot. The nice thing is that there are actually some choices in your price range now. A couple of years ago, we were stuck with just the Digital Rebel. I'm glad for options.

Best of luck! Tell us how you do.

 

[EstorilM]

You brought up some good points I hadn't really thought about too much before - if this is a camera you're going to be getting with the hopes of some day building on your collection and getting a more capable camera down the line, I think it's important to get into the habit of looking at the status LCD for example. It's probably also a good thing to get used to the feel of a larger camera, with more user-accessible features on the body of the camera (versus going into menus and such.) I think of the D40 as a dead-end camera, you're not going to learn anything by letting the camera do everything for you!

Being able to look at a scene, evaluate what depth of field you want, shutter speed you need, what white balance adjustments you need to make, if you need exposure compensation, a different metering mode - maybe you need to mess with focus points to catch the right part of the subject, etc.. these are all things I picked up very quickly when I was forced onto a pro body (the first SLR I shot with was a D1h, and I probably logged 15-20k images on that at work before I got the D200.)

The D50 is slightly better in this respect, however I think finding a used D70, or new D70s at a good price will promote a much faster (and extensive) learning curve in the long run. Plus, you'll be able to stick with CF cards.

 

[Clix Pix]

2 dozen of them on the 18th of December- totally rocked! After that they faded fast

Yup! The other day, though, someone who was there reported that there were about 14 hanging around on the towers but that they weren't doing much fishing or flying. Some people are going there this weekend again to try their luck; I can't, as I've got to work. :-(

 

[EstorilM]

Wait where are you all talking about? I'm in Northern VA too actually..

 

[Clix Pix]

Those are all excellent points, filmamigo! Yes, the viewfinder can make a great difference; I dislike using cameras without one and it bothers me that the current trend in P&S cameras is away from an optical VF or any VF at all.

As for the Nikon line, to me the D200 and the D2X/D2Xs seem to have the best VF. When the D70 first came out there were complaints about its "tunnel vision," but I never had much problem with that. While it's nice to have a large LCD on the back of a DSLR body, that VF is really the more important feature.

The biggest difference for me between the D70/D70s and the D200 was that more controls were available right at my fingertips on the body of the D200, and I really like and appreciate that. Having to fumble through a menu to make changes sometimes means that a potential photo opportunity is lost. I like being able to quickly press a button and/or turn a dial on my D200 and make whatever change it is I need "on the the fly," so to speak. For me, too, the two command dials on the D70, D70s, D80 and D200 are very important and it would drive me nuts having only one, as on the D40 and D50. I think the D80 is more like the D70/D70s as far as needing to go to the menu for function changes, and I know the D50 and D40 definitely are more menu-dependent.

The way the camera feels in my hands is very important. I always use a strap (replacing the Nikon strap with an Op-Tech) and I always have one hand on the camera even when it is hanging from the strap around my neck and I'm walking around. I have fairly small hands but the D70, D70s, D80 and D200 all feel very good and comfortable to me. I haven't held a D2X or D2Xs long enough to know how that would be as a working tool for me, but that is a primary consideration in choosing any camera that one will be using extensively and in a variety of situations. The D40 is so small that it feels almost like a toy, not like a "serious" camera. I wouldn't hesitate to put a large, heavy lens on most of the Nikon bodies but I definitely would not want to risk it on the tiny, light D40.

To the OP: if it is possible for you to borrow or rent a couple of different camera bodies and lenses to try out prior to making the purchase, that could probably be very helpful in your decision.

Wait where are you all talking about? I'm in Northern VA too actually..

Well, howdy, neighbor!!! As you can see by my profile, I'm in No VA, not too far from Tysons, the Apple Store and Penn Camera!

Conowingo Dam is in Maryland, about an hour and a half's drive from here; when you're on I-95 you go through Baltimore and then get off at Havre de Grace or near there and then take a couple of country roads until you wind up near the Susquehanna and the dam. There is a large parking lot at the dam and that is where people are able to view and photograph eagles, seagulls and Great Blue Herons. The Herons have a rookery on the island that is across the water from the parking area. The eagles fly around the island, dine on the rocks, snatch fish from the water, and perch on the two large towers that are there. Sometimes they fly overhead and land in one of the trees in the parking area.

Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge is on the Eastern shore of Maryland, near Cambridge, I think.... Haven't been there yet so can't provide more info than that!

 

[compuwar]

Yup! The other day, though, someone who was there reported that there were about 14 hanging around on the towers but that they weren't doing much fishing or flying. Some people are going there this weekend again to try their luck; I can't, as I've got to work. :-(

Woah, the 24th I saw 6, the 2nd I saw 4, not much of anything going on. If there's still a dozen (or maybe a new group) hanging out, then it's going back on my list of places to visit again soon. Guess I should log into the Cafe and FM more often. Thanks!

Wait where are you all talking about? I'm in Northern VA too actually..

I like to think of it as:

Head N on 95
Pay toll at B'more
Go left at Havre De Grace
Find US 1
Go North
Take the first right before the dam at Su<mumble>
Take the first left at Su<mumble> Landing
Drive to the river
Park
Look up in the tree everyone's staring at.

 

[Clix Pix]

Look up in the tree everyone's staring at.

It can really be rather amusing....a bunch of birdwatchers and photogs standing around chatting, binoculars hanging around some necks, cameras and long lenses jutting out from gimbals and tripods everywhere.... Suddenly the cry goes up: "INCOMING!" Heads jerk up to the sky, hands reach for binoculars, cameras and gimbal controls....the darned bird is flying right on past....landing in a tree way down at the other end of the parking lot.... suddenly the stampede begins, with everybody hoisting their tripod and gear over their shoulders and rushing to the area where the bird has landed and hopefully will perch long enough to get a decent shot...