GTX Titan in Mac Pro Late 2009 works fine!

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Flavioparentiq, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Flavioparentiq, Apr 3, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013

    macrumors regular

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    #1
    Dual Nehalem 2.26ghz
    16gb ram
    2 Hd

    I am moving a mac pro to a gaming machine.
    The computer is now working under windows 8. NO POWER HASSLE WHATSOEVER. No power setup. Just a standard 6 to 8 pin adaptor.

    I believe this is going to be the new official mac pro top card in next models. Even esthetically they match.

    Here are the pictures.

    Any questions are welcome.

    Flavio
     

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  2. macrumors newbie

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  3. thread starter macrumors regular

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    #3
    Sorry i am quite a noob on this side. Is this what you mean?
     

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  4. macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    He meant, upgrade osx to 10.8.4 beta, reboot and check if titan work

    wait
    No need to try, other tried, it works.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors regular

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    #5
    As you can see in the post, i'm on windows.
    Unofficial osx drivers for the titan are not out yet so I prefer to wait.

    The purpose of the post is to make everyone sure that this card is power compliant with the mac pros.
     
  6. macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Shouldn't you use the Titan in the bottom PCI-E slot because it's X16... while the top slots are X4?
     
  7. thread starter macrumors regular

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    #7
    I can see there are 2 16x and 2 4x. Its on the second 16x so i give it a bit of air underneath. Correct me if i'm wrong :)
     
  8. macrumors 6502

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    #8
    You're probably right.

     
  9. macrumors 6502

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    #9
    As stated in response to the other thread, the card is NOT compliant with a Mac Pro limit of 225w on a single PCI-E slot with 75 from the slot and 150 from the two plugs. The Titan has a stated draw of 250 and has tested actually higher than that. 271 in one review at peak usage. You are risking cooking something. Try running a GPU stress test at 100% for 24 hours or render a 30 minute multilayer 1080p60 HD video with numerous effects and let us know how it goes.

    There is more than one horror story from quite sophisticated Mac Pro users who don't think what you are doing is a safe bet. You may get away with it for a period of time and then...the smell of smoke. I did it over two decades ago on an original IBM PC. You don't forget it.

    10.8.4 has a driver that will enable the Titan, but that doesn't mean hardware running 10.8.4 will power it. I would love to have one, but not at the risk of frying a 5,000 USD Mac Pro. Multiple huge hard drives/SSD's, a CPU swap for the 3690, a 670 SC, and additional upgrades/mods were acceptable. I'm not convinced this one is without additional power.
     
  10. thread starter macrumors regular

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    #10
    I just ran a 1 hour stess test with furmark. Perfectly Fine.

    I will update this thread every now and then to update everyone about the card.

    Cheers.

     
  11. macrumors 604

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    #11
    Download 10.8.4 Beta and enjoy it in OSX as well.
     
  12. macrumors 6502

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    #12
    But for how long? You are one of THE GPU gurus I was referring to that knows these cards, Mac Pro limitations etc. Is it really possible to run this thing frequently maxed out without supplemental power?
     
  13. macrumors 604

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    #13
    I don't know the answer to this.

    I used it with an external supply as I have one sitting next to my testing rig.

    We'll find out as more people try I guess.

    I can't advocate it as I don't want the responsibility of blowing up even 1 logic board due to my advice.

    A foolish man in Germany had me mod a GTX580 lightning which required 2 @ 8 pins. Despite my entreaties to the contrary, he used it with 6 to 8 adapters.

    Then he played games in Windows and OVERCLOCKED AND OVERVOLTED it. (Yes, I know...) He then wrote me a day later surprised that his machine was having significant issues, not only with 580 but also with his RAID card. I am 100% certain that he drew too much current through card, when it didn't get enough from the 6 pins, it drew it through the PCIE bus and burned a trace there, killing a power channel in his PCIE bus, which killed his RAID card. A mess.

    So, it is possible to really screw things up. But he wasn't asking for it, he was BEGGING for it.

    As with anything, YMMV, if your mac Pro is maxed out and in a hot room and has cards above and below each other, you have less headroom than someone with a single Quad core and no other cards.

    The other point I can make is that I have a 3,1 and a 4,1 and the 3,1 will cut out much more quickly with Furmark at full screen than the 4,1 will.

    The 3,1 will even crap out doing that test with a 570, which in theory should be OK. So, in my case, my 3,1 has less headroom than a newer 4,1. The older 4,1 was also crapping out quite a bit before slot totally fried running 580 with 6 to 8 pin. The reason I don't popint that story out more is that that machine had tested a few HUNDRED cards before dying, so slot may have had more wear than most. But sparks came out and SLOT 1 is now capped off.

    To be safe & secure, use proper power.

    If you enjoy living on the edge, use adapters and keep your fingers crossed. But I don't recommend it.
     
  14. macrumors 6502

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    #14
    I remember that 580 thread over on netkas. That was absolutely crazy.

    Some reviewers have made what appear to be earnest attempts to derive draw by the card and no one is getting numbers less than 225 but more than one is getting 250 or even more. With heavy duty HD rendering and running 3D simulations full bore over and over, I'm leaning towards a supplemental PSU, maybe giving up the second optical drive for one of the better 5.25 450W boosters. I use that redundant DVD drive once a year, if that. However, with all other bays and a couple of slots filled, and a W3690, I'm hesistant to ask for more from a 4.1.
     
  15. macrumors 601

    OrangeSVTguy

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    #15
    The auxuiliary PSU is probably the best thing if you want to run one or more power hungry GPUs in the Mac Pro.
     
  16. thread starter macrumors regular

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    #16
    Techpowerup:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan/25.html

    At consumption peak the gtxtitan consumes 28 watts more than the gtx570 1.5gb (wich is a known safe mac pro card): 238W vs 210W

    this are the Guru 3d power consumption calculations:

    Measured power consumption single GeForce GTX Titan

    System in IDLE = 136W
    System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 372W
    Difference (GPU load) = 236W
    Add average IDLE wattage ~15W
    Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = ~ 251 Watts

    Measured power consumption single GTX 570

    System in IDLE = 181W
    System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 369W
    Difference (GPU load) = 188W
    Add average IDLE wattage ~ 25W
    Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = ~ 213 Watts


    Under Full stress the 2 cards are alike.
    My bet (I know it is a bet, but i would say a safe one) is that the gtx titan runs fine on a mac pro without psu if you don't overload it with hdds and other pci card.
     
  17. macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #17
    Please don't take us back into this debate…PLEASE
     
  18. macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Oh, I'll bite on this one - it is too much fun not to.

    He is playing with the numbers to make his case verging on misrepresentation. Just read the link and do some kindergarten math. 238-225 at peak under Crysis 2 equals 13w above rated Mac Pro limits. Max under Furmark was "only" 263w. Do the math on that. Check out what TechPowerUp got in their testing at max. Run XP 10 Pro at extreme settings for hours while running uncompressed 1080p video capture, then render it all in a twenty to thirty video/ four to six audio, layered timeline in Vegas Pro and let me know how it goes. Oh yeah, be sure to remove all those non-essential things that "load up" a Mac Pro like HD's, SSD's, Raid cards, video capture boards, audio i/o, etc.

    I don't even know more than the bare definition of what a trace is, or creep either, but I know running underpowered components, especially should you choose those with higher than ref clocks, will make pink smoke come out the back of a computer and make the room smell kinda funky for a couple days.
     
  19. macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Too late. Madness has started again. Time for popcorn
     
  20. IceMacMac, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013

    macrumors 6502

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    #20
    And that answers a BIG question of mine. Awesome! Edit: Or upon reading the thread...not so awesome.
     
  21. Tutor, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013

    macrumors 65816

    Tutor

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    #21
    As Smokey the Bear says, "Only you can prevent home/studio/office fires."

    By

    (1) for 1 or 2 Titans, getting something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104054

    (2) for up to four Titans, getting something like this:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...SLOT_PCIe_EXPANSION_ENC_PCIe_6_2_DESKTOP.html

    (3) for up to eight Titans, getting something like these: http://www.cubixgpu.com/Files/Products/4UupJSfqq.pdf from --- (3a.)(up to 4) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/945780-REG/Cubix_X16_4QF_OSV_GPU_XPANDER_DESKTOP_4.html or
    (3b.)(up to 8 - takes >1 internal PCI-e slots or can be used by 1-4 systems at once) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824209-REG/Cubix_XPRM_16_844_OSV_4x_Compute_Segments_4x.html
     
  22. macrumors 601

    OrangeSVTguy

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    #22
    For that price you can just pick up a few more Mac Pros and then have the extra raw CPU power lol.

    This is the one I'm running, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101044.

    Dr. Stealth is running the FSP booser http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1520765&highlight=gtx+680+fly
     
  23. macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Thanks Tutor. Your chosen nick is certainly appropriate. You guys should read his explanation of Titan tech on another thread here. I already had spotted the booster. Now I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a Titan to hold me until/if Mr. Cook makes good on his promise. 4K/UHD is starting to look feasible. Now Sharp just has to start shipping that affordable (cough) monitor.
     
  24. Tutor, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013

    macrumors 65816

    Tutor

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    #24
    GPU rendering power so dwarfs that of the CPU that its "lol."

    I didn't include this one because it's been discontinued.

    My no.1 (for 1-2 Titans) is the FSP Booster. See the newegg URL.

    My advice for going beyond 2 Titans was tailored to and intended for Mac users whose systems are PCI-e slot challenged. If you want to stick with the Mac Pro and have more than two Titans running in tandem, the external PCI-e chassis offers the best speed solution (PCI-e currently excels over all other connection solutions) and they'll cost you dearly, but the rendering speed gain is certainly worth it if you're using CUDA applications (one Titan's CUDA rendering ability > ten E5-2687Ws*/, and I'd hazard to say that one E5-2687W is faster than any one CPU you can get in a Mac Pro today). So if you put 4 Titans in that $2.1k box sold by BHphoto and connect it to your Mac Pro with a Titan in the lowest slot and a Titan in the next higher slot (powering them by the FPS booster) and put that interconnect cable in the highest slot (if your Mac Pro has all PCI-e 2 slots), then connect to another 4 Titans in the chassis, then you got the rendering ability > sixty E5-2687Ws, excluding the power of the CPUs in your Mac Pro - all for $8.2K additional ($1k for each of six Titans, $2.1k for the chassis, and <$100 for the FPS Booster). That's serious savings and performance. How much would 30 dual E5-2687w systems cost? I bet its not $8.2k but over 25x that much. In addition to my 4 Mac Pros, most of my systems are self-builds and they are not as PCI-e challenged - I can get four GTX Titans or four GTX ...s in almost all of them. I have four Titans in one and four GTX 580s (the overclocked versions that take 2x8 and 1x6 power connectors) in each of another two and four GTX 480s in another and four GTX 295s in another. I can't do that in any of my Mac Pros. But for rendering power/speed, I'm considering consolidations using chassis because that's a lot faster than network rendering.

    */ this rendering metric is just a manifestation of CUDA's compute capability being 10x that of a 2687w, so this metric applies to things other than just rendering. Visit [ http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/12357...?ClickID=b6zku1guvfnemvdv6geufkfqmvqdmgszkgyg ] to see if the applications that you use can benefit from this enhancement and multiple CUDA cards - keep in mind that new applications and enhancements to already CUDA aware apps are being made continually.

    PS (1) - If you're going with the OC'ed Titans, I'd recommend going with the Cubix GPU-XPANDER DESKTOP 4 chassis for about $700 more because of its having a 1200 watt vs. a 1000 watt PSU in the Dynapower USA Netstor NA250A TurboBox PCI Express Expansion Box with Extra Power Connector; and using both the Mac Pro and the FSP booster to power the two internal Titan cards. Moreover, for that extra $700 you'll get x16, rather than x8, slots.

    PS (2) - Also, to get full rendering power, see post #564 here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1333421&page=23. Thus, you may have to wait until Mac drivers and Mac tweaking software arrive from Nvidia to get the full level of performance on the Mac side, but you may be able to get that level now in Bootcamp if both Nvidia's Control Panel software and PrecisionX ver. 4.00 work in BootCamp.
     
  25. macrumors 6502

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    #25
    re:tutor's math

    the ability to grasp that much GPGPU power for that little money makes me worry for crypto keys everywhere, first. people have never been able to get supercomputing-level power for so little $$ before.

    but then I drool over the VFX madness that people like ILM will be able to produce with power like that.
    I worked at ILM when the first GPU-rendered scenes were done . . . they did part of the fire for the inferi cave scenes in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire with a few GPU's sitting in some workstations in a corner of the datacenter. by the time I left, a decent part of the datacenter was being repurposed to house PCI enclosures for gpu rendering arrays. i'm sure that trend has only continued since!
     

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