Gulf War 2 (aka World War 2.5)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by peter2002, Jan 14, 2003.

  1. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
  2. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    #2
    The Bush administration is just trying to mop up all the garbage created and left by the Clinton administration.
     
  3. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #3
    ... and the garbage left over by the first Bush administration.
     
  4. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #4
    Damn funny, really good and actually quite scary :(
     
  5. macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #5
    Yeah, i like the Ashcroft character and his line about the statues. This really is frightening, the outcome of the simulation is much worse than even i had considered. and i'm a pessimist when it comes to war. christ...

    well, the good news is, it's probably still a few months away...

    pnw
     
  6. macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2001
    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #6
    Yay!

    Holy war!

    Oh wait, the U.S has OTHER RELIGIONS???? Well I guess guess we are all gonna need to be anti-Islam eh?

    Bah, I forcasted this for a while, no one ever belives me... :(

    I hate that on the news they say they are 'preparing for a *possible* war this iraq' F*** that!
    We are gonna fight a war no matter what the U.N finds, it will happen in feb.
    According to the sorces Feb. means a better war for the U.S . Bah.

    Screw Bush, I'm not going to war, but I'm preparing for it with lots and lots of FPS. :D
     
  7. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    #7
    ****in a man. all those government bigwigs scare me...cept for bush. hes the puppet.
     
  8. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    #8
    I call it world war 3 , because thats what it is world war III and it could spell the end of peace in the world as we know it (I hope not).

    -GaBe-O
     
  9. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    #9
    dont spam Bush , because he has done a great job, since what has happened in his term (9/11), which i atribute that slipup to the clinton admin. because he was president when it was planned. Bush has great character and is the kind of asertive leader this country needs. When he says its gonna happen , it happens. I would much rather have him president than my sort-of uncle Bob Grahm , senator of Florida, who has declared he is running for president in 2004 (no kidding he realy is like a uncle, because his daughter married my uncle) . Bob has done little is his term to help the state of Florida, and he didnt even come visit my school when he said he would:mad: . well if we do go to war, Bush is the only president i would trust in this situation (Clinton would be getting head while trying to make launch commands in war lol)

    -GaBe-O
     
  10. macrumors 68030

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #10
    Another Clinton-hater no matter the facts. You should read more. Key on Cheney, Bush the First, Haliburton, Caspian Oil, Afghanistan, and Iran/Iraq war and our involvement.
    Sheesh.
     
  11. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #11
    Les,
    You sound like the character in conspiracy theory!

    You should read more, too. Key on Saddam, his brutalizing of the Iraqi people and his desires to restart the Babylonian empire with him as the ruler. Take special note of his tendency to attack other countries and his current support of suicide bombers and other terrorists in Israel.

    We may choose to ignore the reports that he personally tortures people, and we may wish to ignore the reports of his training Islamist terrorists, even though he is a secular dictator. We may choose to ignore his continued refusal to disarm as he agreed to do, but we do so at great risk.

    The garbage was left by both the first Bush administration and the Clinton administration. The first Bush administration assumed that Saddam would fall, but he did not. Clinton tried to get rid of Saddam via missile strikes in 1998, but failed. We have been a war with Iraq since August of 1990, the instant Iraqi forces crossed into Kuwait. If Saddam will not comply with the UN security council resolutions, it is time to finish the job by force.
     
  12. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Location:
    Tampa
    #12
    whatever

    I love it when people blame your opposing view point on a lack of education. It's even better when they haven't a clue who you are or how well you have been educated. Let me tell you just how much sense this makes.

    Also, please realize that the UN is never going to declare war on anyone. It doesn't matter what they find in Iraq or if they kick the inspectors out. They will never declare war on anyone. So lets stop using that poor excuse that we aren't waiting for the UN to approve of action.

    Matt
     
  13. macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2001
    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #13
    Let Me hearby be flamed:
    I Don't support War with iraq. Wow so he got away with it.
    Bush Sr. Didn't take him out and neither did clinton, let the country rest, anyhow if you read:
    NORTH KOREA IS BUILDING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

    Now do we want to attack a country that might have a few of the weapons we have or a contry that is getting Nuklear (Bushspeak) weapons?

    If we need to attack a country let N. Korea get it.

    Iraq Might have some weapons, but I sure as hell want proof of all of these weapons.

    U.S: Iraq HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
    Iraq: No... not really
    U.S: YES YOU DO!
    U.N: Okay show us proof.
    U.S: Shutup We don't need to show you Anything!
    What the hell is the U.S gonna lose if they tell the U.N where they are (if they have them).

    Bah!

    Happy War!
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Location:
    Tampa
    #14
    also

    Also, how long have we been hearing this BS from various people predicting that we are going to war within the next month or the next two weeks or whatever. What's funny about it is that people have been predicting these thing for the last few months.

    I think I'm gonna come on the boards every day and swear that we are going to war on the following day and everyone should prepare for it. Then one day I might actually be right and I'll tell everyone that I was right and they should have listened to me.

    So now that we're predicting things what country do you liberal nutcases see us attacking next after we blow up all the homes of the innocent Iraqi children (since that's who Bush is really after). I think the way Bush does it is by picking them out of a hat (atleast that's what my sources say).

    Matt
     
  15. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #15
    MrMacman,
    What about look at the last decade or so...

    Iraq: Let's invade Kuwait, no one will stop us!
    Iraq invades Kuwait.
    US/UN: How about you leave or we kick you out?
    Iraq: Bring it on, we'll give you the mother of all battles!
    US/UN: OK, here it is.
    After Iraq is beaten like a rented camel and flees Kuwait...
    Iraq: We agree to cease fire. We agreee to disarm, we agree to inspections!
    Iraq doesn't disarm, keeps inspectors from doing their jobs.
    Iraq: (1993) Let's kill President Bush!
    Clinton: Let's bomb Iraq, just a little (after all, he is a Republican!).
    US: (Clinton administration, 1998): Inspector's can't do their job! Iraq isn't disarmed. Let's bomb the crap our of Iraq!
    US/UK bomb Iraq
    US (Bush administration) Saddam still involation, time to take action. Comply with UN or face the consequences.
    UN: OK, here's another resolution.
    Iraq: We will let inspectors back in.
    Inspectors (Blix): Iraq isn't exactly being forthcoming in their report.
    US/UK: Saddam will disarm or he will be disarmed by force.

    And that is where we are today!
     
  16. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    #16
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Another Clinton-hater no matter the facts
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Close. But not exactly. I'm a clinton hater BECAUSE of the facts.

    The world is a far far far more dangerous place because of the 8 year holiday-from-history which Clinton decided to take.


    During Clinton's reign of terror
    IRAQ
    - Saddam attempted to assasinate Bush 1.
    - Saddam flouted the terms of the end of the war, and the terms of subsequent UN resolutions.
    - Saddam kicked out the inspectors, and was openly building up his WMD program.
    - Saddam helped train Tim McVeigh in the use of explosives, which resulted in him going from an amateur who could not blow up a milk carton, to an expert who blew up a building
    - Clinton pretended to care and did nothing. In the case of McVeigh he destroyed the careers of the FBI agents who were going to prove the case

    CHINA
    - Clinton allowed the transfer of our most sophisticated Nuclear, Missile and Sattelite secrets to China allowing them to now accurately and lethally threaten western US states

    - Clinton destroyed the careers of FBI agents who rightfully attempted to expose the threat

    - Wen Ho Lee is guilty. But you would never know it. Clinton and admin. destroyed the agents who were going to prove the case.

    - Clinton allowed China to become openly aggressive in their military buildup vs. Taiwan, flouting the US-Taiwan relationship act.

    N.KOREA
    - Clinton gave North Korea 2 reactors, fuel necessary to enhance their nuclear program then turned a blind eye when US intelligence EXPLICITLY indicated they were continuing their WMD programs.

    ISRAEL
    - Transformed Arafat from a heinous terrorist into a world diplomat, visiting him more often in the white house, in the latter part of his term , than any other world leader.
    - Allowed the world to equate the practice of terrorism ,with the effort to defend oneself from terrorism...raising the importance and justification of terrorism world wide.

    MORE
    - Clinton dismantled non-proliferation agencies whose purpose was to stop the flow of high-tech dual-use technologies from reaching the hands of those who would destroy us.
    - At the same time, Clinton raised unbelievable amounts of political contributions from just these high-tech companies. And despite being found to have been in breach of US laws, he continued the activity.



    And don't forget, Clinton and crew were taking serious political donations from the Chinese Red Army and from oil interest in Iraq.

    Clinton and crew took money from our enemies.
    Allowed them to steal our national security secrets.
    Allowed them to put our citizens at risk.
    Allowed them to flout our agreements.
    Allowed them to attempt to assasinate an ex-president.
    Allowed them to perpetrate terrorist acts on American soil, then redirect our attention away from the true conspirators.

    This is not just immoral.
    This is not just illegal.
    It is treason.

    Whatever you may say about the oil-guys from Texas, they don't aid and abet our enemies. And their mistakes, were just that ...mistakes.

    Clinton and crew were very calculated and objective in their attempts to destroy this country.

    And there is only 1 group in the US that has such hatred for American power, prowess, freedom, economic vitality, and moral vitality, that they would generate the support necessary to get such a beast elected.

    It is the group which still laments the fall of communism, and its failed ideology, despises the rise of the US as the sole superpower, and the proof of the absolute virtue in its moral strength.

    And that is the left-wing faction of the Democratic party.

    Supporting these idiots, is the same as arming and paying our enemies.

    Wake Up!
     
  17. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #17
    I'm sure there was a hell of a mess way before Clinton was elected.

    I hope people in America realize that your current actions are creating more anymosity, which will create more bad guys in the future to keep your military busy and the weapon companies wealthy. I live in New Zealand and know of noone who has anything nice to say about U.S.A at the moment.

    You do know that it was a republican government who supported Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran during the 80's fully knowing he was using chemical weapons at the time. don't you??
    Or is that just one of those silly mistakes.
    If the mistakes you are talking about happened under a Dem gov. would you still be calling them mistakes???

    Moral Strength.
    What ever!!!!!!!! :mad:

    Don't get me wrong, I have nothing good to say about your Democratic parties that have been in power either.

    I don't totally hate America, it just frustrates me how your governments and businesses get away with everything.

    NO allah you wake up!
     
  18. macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #18
    http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/10/03/iraq.bush.duel/

    An Iraqi VP awhile back proposed a duel between Saddam Hussein and G.W. Bush, with Kofi Annan as the referee. Bush declined it. I thought this was hilarious when I first heard it, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. This whole conflict could have been resolved in an instant with - at most - one person dead. A steel cage match would have been an EXCELLENT way to finally end this situation for good: Bush loses, the U.S. stays out of Iraq's business. Hussein loses, he gets ousted from power. Sounds good to me. Was Bush afraid, or what? He's supposedly in very good shape. He could have probably taken Hussein. Instead he had to reject the offer and make himself and his country look like cowards.

    (Note Ari Fleischer's nonsensical response to the challenge.)
     
  19. macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #19
    "Mr. President! You're up early!"

    Hilarious Flash animation. I'm sure its goal was to make us laugh, but I believe the hawks could learn a bit from it as well... specifically with regards to destabilization.
     
  20. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    #20
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm sure there was a hell of a mess way before Clinton was elected.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The world is always messy.
    There has never been, however , a true traitor in the white house like Clinton.
    If you are so sure that there has been another administration as bad, I would welcome an example...or two to back up your feelings. Feelings are nice, facts are better.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I hope people in America realize that your current actions are creating more anymosity, which will create more bad guys in the future to keep your military busy and the weapon companies wealthy.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Leadership is lonely.
    And leadership doesn't mean appeasement.
    So...if you're going to lead, not everybody's going to like you.
    The communists didn't like us. Nor did the Nazis. Nor did Tojo led Japan.
    Are you suggesting that America should have tried to be more conciliatory with these evil empires?

    Should we have said, hmmm....the Nazis and Communists are out for world domination...have killed 10's of millions of civilians (many there own people)...are threatenting all of our allies in Europe...but they don't like us...boohoo... so maybe we should back off and try get them to like us a bit more?

    The military-industrial explanation is so rehashed left-wing pablum that it's actually comical anybody would even use it with a straight face.

    If that is the only lense through which you can see this conflict you ought to consider the billions of dollars of trade in oil and weapons which France, Germany, and Russia engage in with this horrible tyranny (Iraq) and then question why the world community isn't breathing down their necks for supporting Saddam's horrible regime because of THEIR trade


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If the mistakes you are talking about happened under a Dem gov. would you still be calling them mistakes???
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Absolutely. simple mistakes are mistakes.
    What I called out above with Clinton are not simple mistakes. They are treasonous.

    Taking money from your enemy and then in return supplying them with nuclear weapons technology which are pointed at your west coast IS NOT A MISTAKE

    Destroying FBI agents who are attempting to expose enemies spying at your labs, IS NOT A MISTAKE.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't totally hate America, it just frustrates me how your governments and businesses get away with everything.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    like what? again facts instead of feelings would be nice. I know this may be hard for you (given your liberal inclinations) but give it a shot.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I live in New Zealand and know of noone who has anything nice to say about U.S.A at the moment.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    so? what are NZ contributions to the world besides Kiwis and Koalas? Actually, more to the point.. does anybody really care what New Zealanders care about? Isn't Jedi an official religion there or something?



    Appologizing for dictators has gotten the world in lots of trouble before.
    It resulted in WW2, and the needless deaths of millions of Europeans (thank you Chamberlain!)

    Bashing the US, its government and businesses, and regurgitating leftist propoganda about military-industrial motivation, may be a fun thing to do if you're a lefty, but is perhaps the most destabilizing thing you can do for world peace. But then, that may be your objective.
     
  21. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #21
    While it is quite humorous, I think we could learn more from the actual history of the 1990-1991 action than we could from a flash animation, however nicely done. Those of us who were alive and aware at that time remember the exact same arguments being made against ejecting Iraq from Kuwait: Israel will get involved and the Arabs will go beserk. Didn't happen.
     
  22. macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #22

    In the second part of this reply, you knock down a straw man. I don't believe the examples you cited (from the relatively distant past) pertain to the current U.S.-Iraq situation the way you've applied them (as direct analogical equals).

    In the first part of this reply, you said: "Leadership is lonely. And leadership doesn't mean appeasement. So...if you're going to lead, not everybody's going to like you."

    Sentence 1: I believe you could face plagiarism charges if the GOP finds out you've written that on a public web forum.

    Sentence 2: Appeasement is not the only alternative to war, and I don't think many Americans are really in favor of appeasement anyway. Containment and diplomacy seem more prudent, and those are those are the paths that are currently being taken.


    I agree that it's rehashed. Not sure how you can come to the conclusion that it's pablum given that the transfers of money and influence are right there for all to see on opensecrets.org.

    I would say it's because neither France, Germany, nor Russia are likely to be entering a war that's subtextually justified in part by the appeasement of their respective petrochemical and defense industries.

    Corporate welfare... soft money... environmental devastation... the use of money and talented lawyers to flaunt the law... legal loopholes that benefit wealthy individuals & corporations... I'm only touching the tip of the iceberg, and I hope someone who is better informed than I will help me out here. The point is that what Judo mentioned is totally real whether or not I have enough time to compile an exhaustive report for you.


    Isn't that a bit of an arrogant stance to take, allah akbar? To reinforce what Judo is trying to say: It's not just NZ that is tiring of the way the U.S. conducts itself on the world stage - it's literally every country on the map. You name the country - its respect for the U.S. is souring, and those countries that had sour attitudes towards the U.S. to begin with are getting really, really pissed. This may not concern you until your daughter's elementary school is suicide-bombed by a militant Arab. As an American, I want to be able to travel overseas without having to worry about getting shot or having my rental care firebombed. I want to be able to visit such historically America-allied countries as France and Spain without its citizens spitting in my face.

    Dictators are bad, appeasement is usually bad. What this flash cartoon humorously illustrates is that in some situations, simply militarily bulldozing a country and replacing its government may not be the best option for world peace & the preservation of freedom and democracy in the long run.
     
  23. macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #23
    Middle east sentiment in 1990-1991 was not the same as it is today. It's gotten much, much worse. World history shows us that it didn't happen last time, but it also gives us examples of situations that completely exploded when nobody had any idea such a thing could happen. It's impossible to prove whether this or this or this will happen as a result of a war, but we need to entertain other possibilities besides the suggestion that "nothing will happen because it didn't before."
     
  24. macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2001
    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #24
    I almost forgot this was over a product called oil.

    That is all he wants, oil, plain and simple. A simple plan for a simple mind.
    'We can kick the crud out of iraq again right?' Bush
    'Yeah our army didn't even get a scratch after taking on afganistan' advisor
    'Okay so we can get some of what iraq has, and after all, he tried to kill my daddy!'
    'yeah sir'

    Anyways, I guess that might be acurate if we bet England and turkey on our side, but proabably not in a worldwide poll the U.S was proclamed to be the 'bully of the world'. This will just restate the point.

    What I've seen is that Saddam is a bad leader, but the U.S wants to stop them from getting weapons we have already, heck some U.S programs gave them weapons in the first place.

    Ech the whole thing is a mess if bush plays it this way.
     
  25. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    #25
    While it is never a good idea to assume that something won't happen because it didn't happen last time, it is a worse idea to assume that something will happen because of a spiffy flash animation.
     

Share This Page