Guns, your take

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Backtothemac, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #1
    Since several people objected to my thread related to my new secondary occupation as a member of the posse here in my parish, and objected to my having weapons at home, and that my daughter is learning to shoot, I would like to get everyone's take on owning guns, having guns, etc.
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    I would have titled the thread "Guns are bad/No they're not/Yes they are/Screw you Hippie/Drop dead redneck scum" myself.

    :p
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    I'm not sure why people actually need guns, only to protect themselves from others with guns which they need to protect themselves from the others with guns.
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    How sure are you of your ability to fend off a mountain lion, should the need arise? Not all of us live in Central London flats you know...
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    I have no problem with them whatsoever. I used to shoot as a kid. It was fun. I took hunter's safety courses as well.

    I think if more people educated themselves about guns and how to properly handle them, we'd have fewer problems with them just like so many other things in the world.
     
  6. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #6
    As to my 2 cents on the issue, I personally do not like guns that much. That said, I really think it is an issue of responsibility, not guns per se, that is the issue.

    Like being a parent, and automobile owner, or a pet owner, some people will take it upon themselves to take all necessary steps to honor that responsibility, and others won't.

    Which is why I somewhat bristle at gun-ownership being cast as a Right and not a Privilege. The latter implys a certain amount of responsibility, while the former does not.

    Still, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and point to examples of poor gun-ownership/behavior and rail for a blanket, black/white solutions - such as banning firearms.

    Personally, I would prefer more stringent gun-ownership laws, and mandatory, periodic testing on gun-handling, roughly analgous to some countries Drivers ED/license renewal.
     
  7. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #7
    No but tell me. How many deaths in the US over the last 10 years due to mountain lions versus gunshot wounds?
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Dunno... all I know is that there are more reasons than protecting yourself from people with guns to own a gun.
     
  9. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #9
    But what happens if these mountain lions are the ones holding the guns?

    ah but yes to the point

    I agree that guns are an uncivilized weapon. A light saber is much better.

    I do not like guns for my real point.
     
  10. cslewis macrumors 6502a

    cslewis

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    #10
    Personally, owning a gun isn't something that I'm planning on doing. I just don't see a practical application for one. To all those who do choose to own them, I just ask that they're responsible and intelligent when using them...

    ...just like everyone else is!
     
  11. ~Shard~ macrumors P6

    ~Shard~

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    #11
    To put it simply, a gun is a weapon. It is used to destroy. That is the purpose for which it was deisgned. If we lived in a mature society where the only use for guns was for recreation (going out to the range, target practice, shooting as a hobby, etc.), sure that would be fine. But the fact is, it is in our nature to destroy ourselves, and irresponsible people misuse and abuse guns. And at the end of the day, yes, they are weapons. To that end you might as well start a similar thread gauging people's opinions on plastic explosives and land mines. To sum this line of thought up, the world would be a better place without guns. Whether that is because of guns themselves of because of society and human nature is open for debate. (Keep in mind though as well that a car can be a weapon as well if misused.)

    All that being said, I'd like to shift gears and make 2 other points.

    Number one, I am an Engineer, and from an engineering perspective, I appreciate the complexity and amazing design of many guns. The physics behind it fascinate me as well. I love knowing how things work, and many guns are quite the complex machines - a marvel of engineering. And yes, the same could be said for the nuclear bomb as well. ;) :cool:

    Number two, my father-in-law is the head firearms instructor for the RCMP, the national police force here in Canada. He has a workshop, complete with a metal lathe, where he builds guns from scratch and bullets as well. I really appreciate his talents. He has many old guns which are more antiques than anything. And he taught his daughter (my wife) how to shoot when she was little as well, and no harm has come out of that. I do respect his skill as well, as for the past countless years he has been the Grand Aggregate Winner at all the shooting competitions he has been involved in, and has more "Top Shot of North America" trophies than I can count. Yes, he is arguably the best in the continent for marksmanship and the like - quite an achievement. :cool: All this being said, he is an easy-going, great guy, and is deifnitely not the stereotypical "gun freak" you might think would fit into this category.

    Anyway, just some thoughts on the matter, since you asked... :cool:
     
  12. satty macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Freedom to have a gun and responsibilities

    I obviously agree with blackfox, but want to add a couple of things as well.
    Many people are not as responsible as they should be, therefore you need rules. If those rules are breached, the freedom has to be taken away.

    So some of the rules could be like:

    Training and test of the gun-holder incl. a license. Minimum age of a gun-holder to get such a licence, allowed to train if younger.

    Training is ristricted to certain locations, i.e. shooting range, gun clubs.

    Gun-holders should not be allowed to take any drugs anytime (this includes especially alcohol). Test by independent doctors multiple times a year.

    Threatening other people with the use of weapons, even only vocaly, should be strictly forbidden (apart from real self-defense).

    Gun-holders should not be allowed to use their weapons as "phallus-symbols" (sorry didn't find a better term).

    Failing of one of the rules means loosing the license and the guns.
     
  13. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #13
    I'm for people being able to own guns as long as they are fit to own one.
     
  14. 2nyRiggz macrumors 603

    2nyRiggz

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    #14
    Guns are for protection/destruction(take your pick) i'm not too fond of guns and i really don't like stupid people with guns because thats the killer right there.


    Bless
     
  15. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    Wow, great responses.

    If I could live in a society where there were no guns for bad guys to get their hands on, then would I own them? No. But reality is that in this country at least, there are plenty of people that carry them with bad thoughts in their minds.

    I personally would rather have one and have a chance than not have one and not have any chance.
     
  16. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #16
    Me too. My fitness test would be that wanting to own one counts you out.
     
  17. neocell macrumors 65816

    neocell

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    #17
    Like I said in Backtothemac's original thread, it doesn't have to be about the individual who purchased the gun, or has the gun, but what effect this may have to general population around them (ie a child who plays with it, a child's friend who plays with it, a B&E situation etc. etc. etc.). Guns are meant for injuring or killing, bottom line. One may say it's for defense, but how to you use it for defense? You injure or kill with it. And as BV has clearly indicated the need for a gun for protection against wildlife is stretching it. Sure you may be eaten by a tiger or lion or whatever, but what are you doing in that situation in the first place, and in all reality how likely is this to ever happen? Just guessing here but chances are, in the long run, you'll have a greater likelihood of having a gun related incident than a wild animal attack, so you're only doing yourself, and those around you, harm when going down this path.
    Now if someone entered my home and put my loved ones at risk, yes indeed I would love to be able to protect them in the most drastically efficient way possible. But that protection for a very unlikely occurrence, can not come at the cost of have a continual risk of a gun in my house.
    Everyone has to decide the balance for themselves. Cost versus benefit ratios (and I'm not talking dollars)
     
  18. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #18
    Do you not think that keeping them in one's home can only help the 'bad guys' to get their hands on them?
     
  19. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #19
    I think you make a very vaild point. My rebutal is simple. The defense is to save your own life, or your family's life. Yes, it is an offensive action, but the end result is defensive in nature. You said that you would love to be able to protect your family in the most drastically efficent way possible. Well, that is with a hand gun, or some other weapon. You can shoot someone without it being lethal. IE knee, arm, thigh, etc. You don't have to kill someone to stop someone with a firearm. Futhermore, what is the continual risk of a weapon if you secure it? My dad had probably 20 guns in the house, be neither me, or my friends ever touched them. Because we respected them. We were taught to respect the weapon so that people did not get hurt. Also if you secure the weapon, were is the risk? I have a trigger lock and a slide lock on each weapon. I don't have them in a gun safe because I choose not to have one. I do have them where my daughter cannot gain access to them, and again, they are stored with security.

    I totally respect your opinion, and position so don't think that I do not respect it. But reality is reality. In America there are to many crimes that occur to not protect yourself, and as I said, if the bad guys only had knives or rocks, etc, there would be no need for a sidearm. But, the reality is that they do get their hands on weapons, and they sadly use them to make their crimes easier. My weapons make their crimes much more difficult if the need ever arises.
     
  20. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Jul 4, 2004
    #20
    That's probably the main reason for an individual's particular response on the matter. I've lived in three countries through my life. Not one of them permitted the easy ownership of firearms except in the case of maybe rifles/shotguns for hunting.

    Even with the situation in the US, I'm not sure why people are allowed to buy assault rifles and other similar weaponry... but I'm probably misinformed here. Is it easy to get hold of an AK47 or something similar in the US?
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    Not unless they have mad safecracking skillz.
     
  22. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #22
    No, and I don't follow that logic at all. We have an alarm system on our home. If someone breaks in the alarm goes off.

    In order to get the weapons, they would have to know where they are, know the combination to the trigger lock, and the slide lock, then know where my ammunition was, and the combination to the case that it is kept in.

    By that time, either the cops are there, or I am there. See the point? Plus, please understand that I carry the weapon on my when I am not at home, and when home it is secure.
     
  23. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #23
    So the mere fact that you want to own a gun makes you...? :confused:
     
  24. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #24
    So what is the point of owning a gun to protect yourself in your home from buglers and such if you keep it in a safe so that it takes time to get it out by which time you could all be dead.
     
  25. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #25
    Well, that too is a valid point. However, I can get to the secure location, remove the trigger lock, remove the slide lock, and load a magazine in under 15 seconds at last test. That is at the farthest point from the location of the weapon in the house. You have to know how to do it and you have to practice. Just like field striping a weapon takes practice.
     

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