H.265 is Here!

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by otisg, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. macrumors member

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    #1
  2. macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    #2
  3. thread starter macrumors member

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    Not sure, but at least we are one step closer to live TV in 1080p or 4K in the future.
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

    northernmunky

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    #4
    None! But thats not the point, the point is its here and thats a very good first step towards widespread adoption.
    Well done Divx for beating everyone to it! Divx knows that as they are the first, everyone will gravitate towards their encoding system.
     
  5. macrumors 68040

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    #5
    You missed the point then. Many codecs come and go, but until it is adopted by mainstream GPUs and CPUs then it will sit as an "also ran".... It will not gain wide spread adoption until we get SOC integrates decoders. Until that happens, then the rest of the discussion is moot. Without a mainstream HARDAWARE decoder, it can't be built into set top boxes and computers.

    So as Mr Retrofire stated: what ARM or AMD/Intel process has a built in decoder? Once this occurs then I will agree that h.265 is here....
     
  6. macrumors 6502a

    northernmunky

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    #6
    Sorry no, you're still the one missing the point Mr. Beers, and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here?

    Hardware encoders/decoders are not the be all and end all in this case. I'm here happily encoding and playing back H.265 merely by CPU power (so it kinda... is here!), when the day comes that hardware decoders can take over the job, fantastic. But this is called a milestone, hardware decoding will come in due course. This is not worth arguing about.
     
  7. macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    H.264 required a wide-spread adoption (i.e. hardware decoders in mobile devices, which can not use a 90 Watt quad-core processor, to decode 720p H.264 video). The H.265 standard needs the same wide-spread adoption before Apple, adult movie studios, and others can sell H.265 encoded content. It is also not clear, which container format H.265 uses in the future. H.264 uses at the moment the MP4 and MKV container formats.
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

    northernmunky

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    #8
    All stuff that will come in due course. But right now my Core i7 Macbook Pro is doing a grand job. Might not have it on my iPhone yet, still doesn't fricken matter!!

    My exports are all coming out in an MKV container, which is one of the most modern, feature rich and in widespread use.

    Well chuffed with that! :D
     
  9. macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    #9
    I doubt that Apple or “certain” ;) movie studios use MKV in the future, although it supports many data formats.
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    ZeRoLiMiT

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    #10
    the MP4 container works with almost everything.... :apple:
     
  11. paulrbeers, Sep 7, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013

    macrumors 68040

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    No until a 10 watt set top box (like a Bluray player) can do h.265, then It is not here. Im glad your quad core processor can do it, but 95% of the population do not watch videos on their computers.
     
  12. macrumors 68000

    phrehdd

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    #12
    It is always a welcome thing when more efficient forms of compression/codecs come to the consumer. What is not a welcome thing is that we can't even get consistency with what we have already.

    Whether a Blu Ray is VC-1 or H264, the quality of transfers range from impressive to just plain rotten. So, in comes 4K and its variants and most likely we will be subject to no minimum standards all over again or - so many variants that no single player will handle them all properly. We also saw this before with DVDs. I have some amazing DVDs that were very sharp, well transferred and at times remastered for DVD and then some that looked like someone shot a video tape of a TV screen.

    So when all this talk of 4K comes around, I'll probably wait 2-4 years until there is enough medium and reviews to know which ones to avoid entirely and which studios are being greedy with double and triple dipping on product (such as regular and extended versions and 3d and extended 3d and on and on).

    For those of you who are excited, I am happy for you...and yes, I remain skeptical.
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    northernmunky

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    #13
    You really believe that? I know precicely no-one besides myself who even owns a bluray player, or media player because everyone thinks its just as easy to play on their laptops! The unfortunate truth is the only people who own bluray or media players are moderately tech savvy movie enthusiasts and above.

    Your 95% judgement is way off!
     
  14. thread starter macrumors member

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    #14
    I'm glad to see some spirited discussion about my post, however, my original point was just that a (large, established) company finally released a consumer product featuring HEVC. Yes, for it to be a big deal it will have to be implemented in hardware, but this is clearly the beginning of the wave.
     
  15. macrumors 6502a

    chirpie

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    #15
    Boo Hiss to the negative nancy's that try to win their fights with semantics.

    Yesterday I couldn't encode and play back h265. Today I can. As worthwhile an update in a codec's lifecycle as any.
     
  16. macrumors 68040

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    Really? Everyone thinks its just as easy to watch on their laptops? You must be in college. In a home environment, rarely is a movie watched on a laptop. You don't get 4 people crowded around a 15" screen when there is a 40" screen sitting in the middle of the living room. Yes 95% of the real world want to etch movies on their big screen which requires some type of set top box (whether a media streamer, Bluray, etc.). I can't tell you the last time I watched a full length movie on my laptop. That would just be silly. The closest was the time I played it on my laptop but streamed it to my Appletv. My parents and grandparents would not even consider watching a movie on a laptop. So lets see between me and every generation above account for 25 years and older and my children and nieces and nephews do not have laptops, so that accounts for age groups of 10 and younger (at least), so now you are looking at maybe 11-24years as even an audience that would even consider watching a movie on a laptop.... I would say watching on portable devices (tablets and phones) would be the preferred viewing for most in the category of 11-24 since many have those devices. I would say my 95% is pretty accurate. So phones, tablets, and set top boxes all require a decoder (not a software decoder) so let me know when that is released and then I will agree that h.265 has arrived.
     
  17. macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    #17
    That's what the HEVC user said, as he saw the tsunami coming.
     
  18. macrumors 604

    ravenvii

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    #18
    Bizarre thread here... he's just sharing the first implementation of H.265 in a consumer product. H.265 is being called the successor to the H.264 codec so this should be interesting, not some weird fanboy battle.

    We're getting a glimpse into a likely future of video codecs.

    Or are you guys really arguing that we are gong to stay on H.264 and 1080p forever?

    Bizarre. :confused:
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    northernmunky

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    #19
    I'm 33 and work for the biggest TV platform in this country. We also provide IP streaming of our channels because we recognise that their is a shifting trend towards viewing TV via laptops, smartphones, and tablets and this year saw a big rise in viewership via devices that are not TV's. We actually saw a dip in sales on flatscreens.

    You can look through this if you want:
    http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/resources/library/BBC/MEDIA_CENTRE/TV_Licensing_Telescope_Report_2012.pdf

    Dont have time to go through the whole thing but heres a quote:
    More of us are using our mobile devices to watch TV. By the end of 2011, 39% of households watched TV content on a smartphone, while 14% used a tablet.

    H.265 is going to be very important in the next few years bringing visually better quality content over 3/4G networks and home broadband. The H.265 encoder developed by NHK in Japan for use with 4k and 8k UHD broadcasts for example have already been successful as they developed the world's first HEVC/H.265 real-time encoder for 8k Ultra HD in their cameras.

    The technology isnt ready to roll out to the masses, but it is here and can be played with and experimented with. I certainly won't be about to mass re-convert my movie collection to Divx's HEVC because who knows how the standard for home use will develop in the coming months/years...

    But for me, I can now set up a beefy render machine in an edit suite, with a H.265 encoder and render out files at half the size of H.264 that clients/producers can take away on USB sticks for review. Half the size means I can give them better quality renders and thus more likely to spot issues in programme content that can be reported back.

    I can do this now.

    Its here.
     
  20. macrumors 6502a

    northernmunky

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    #20
    Haahaaa, I hate fanboy battles, dont have time for them!
    Only reason I'm carrying this on is because I want to be promoted from a macrumors 6502 so I can have a pic on the left :D
     
  21. macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #21
    Eye of the beholder I guess. I don't know anyone, outside of college students, that use their laptops as a media player.

    Just because you consume media a certain way and the people you know consume media a certain way doesn't mean that is the case for most people. Doesn't make anyone's way "right" or "wrong", just that everyone has their own way of going about life in this world.
     
  22. paulrbeers, Sep 8, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013

    macrumors 68040

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    #22
    I'm no fanboy of h.264. I'm merely pointing out that being supported in a software encoder does not mean it has arrived. Hardware decoders are more important!

    ----------

    Holy crap then! Thats my whole point! Tablets and smartphones also require a hardware decoder right?!? Just like a set top box! That was Mr retrofire's original point was it not?!? THANK YOU FOR MAKING OUR POINT. And no laptops are not the preferred method, it's ARM based devices like phones, tablets, and set top boxes just as YOU pointed out.

    Also pointing out that just because something is used in a household doesn't make it the preferred method. We watch shows and movies on our iPads here, but we still prefer our 50 and 55" TVs. Also the tv industry is down because there hasn't been anything truly revolutionary releases in the last 5+ years. Just advancements in LCD technology. 3D I doesn't interest many, smartTVs are oka but a separate box is preferred. Tablets and smart phones are the "new thing" (and require a hardware decoder *wink*)
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    Pompiliu

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    Apr 22, 2012
    #23
    Haha. Tsunami is such a funny word. Tsunami. I like saying tsunami.
    Hey, my tsunami is bigger than yours. :eek:

    Sorry for offtopic, i'm on a acid trip.:cool:
     
  24. macrumors 68000

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    #24
    I wonder, how many of them are used to watch the main program and how many as the "second screen"?
    Capturing viewers' attention on the 2nd screen will be the next big thing in broadcast industry.
     
  25. macrumors 68040

    ezekielrage_99

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    #25
    A very good point regarding adoption, though I do believe within a few years you'll see the same with h.265 because it is the next logical progression for codec with high definition video.
     

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