Has Bush Lost His Mind?

Discussion in 'Community' started by drastik, Dec 5, 2002.

  1. drastik macrumors 6502a

    drastik

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    #1
    Let's look at the facts:

    The Un inspections are going off without a hitch. They have been allowed access to every site they have asked to see and they have reported nothing out of the ordinary. The only find so far has been a group of Artillary shells that were known to exist from inspections four years ago.

    According to UN Secretary General Kopi Anan, the isnpections are going well.

    Bush is another story. He openly states that he has not and will not read the reports of the arms inspectors. He simple says that things "don't look encouraging." What he's basing that on is a mystery.

    Colin Powell states that things seem to be going well with the inspections, then in the same day, Cheney and Rumsfield say that Iraq is not cooperaing.

    Now, Hussien goes to his people and pfficials and tells them to welcome the arms inspectors, that they have nothing to hide.

    Bush says he's lying and I have the evidence. Of course, Inspectors have found no such evidence and they are in the actuall place, not campaigning for a senator in the midwest.

    As all of this unfolds, the rest of the world becomes increasingly dissatisfied with US actions, and well they should be. There has been no concrete evidence found by independent sources that Hussein is produciing weapons of mass distruction. If there is some type of solid fact about this that the government has, why are they unwilling to divulge it to the UN, a move that would let the inspectors easily check it out and confirm?

    Bush appears to have made up his mind to go to war. He has no basis and no justification for doing so that anyone besides himself and Rumsfield seems to know. Even Ari Fliesher just says that he wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

    Sadam Hussein is a monster in his own right. He is a brutal dictator, and human rights violations aound in Iraq. Unfortunetely, this is also true of China and Cuba, and about a thousand small countries.

    Iraq is a target of the US, not because it represents a real threat to freedom, but because it controls oil. Rmember that the only American Company to trade oil witht he IRaqis during the Embargo was Halliburton, the company owned by Dick Cheney. Cheney and Hussein have meet before, as business partners.

    Rumsfield had been trying to attak Iraq for 15 years fro his various positions, and Cheney as well when he sat as Secretary of Defense for Bush Sr.

    This is a personal war, and I for one, wont support it.

    edit: sorry, mixed up the oil companies. Harkin was Bush. Cheney was (is?) Halliburton.
     
  2. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #2
    Of course he's not losing his mind.

    How can you lose something you don't have to begin with?
     
  3. cyks macrumors 68020

    cyks

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    #3
    you're forgetting another useless reason...

    Pres. Bush's daddy - the one that started the war.... who better then his son to end it?
     
  4. Thirteenva macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Of course bush won't let up. Lets face it, this was the plan before the votes were even counted.

    Aside from the political reasons and those regarding oil, jr. also has to finish what daddy failed to....saddam.

    Lets face it, the republicans didnt' support G.W.B jr in the primary elections because of his personality or winning smile...

    Personally i think mccain was a much better choice even though i'm a democrat.
     
  5. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #5
    oh wow look not another anti bush thread on here.



    lets all join the "Berkley Bandwagon"



    lol



    nah... man i understand everyone has a right to thier opinion and crap but dang there are just soo much anti Bush anti america... anti anything not democratic threads .... thats its getting to redundant.
     
  6. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #6
    Anti-Bush = Anti-America?
     
  7. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #7


    no thats not what i said or ment...


    anit bush threads and anti america threads.


    not if you make anti bush threads your anti america or whatever.
     
  8. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #8
    Oh... OK

    Well, if you don't like the threads, you're free to not participate in them :)
     
  9. Moxiemike macrumors 68020

    Moxiemike

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    #9
    Re: Has Bush Lost His Mind?

    You forgot about the dictator of one LARGE country... bush. and the Repulik of Amerika
     

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  10. mkubal macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    hmmm...

    I agree with you somewhat. I am in total support of the President, but even I wondered why he seems to think that there is no cooperation from the Iraqis when the total opposite seems to be true.

    But then I got to thinking and realized that his security clearance is just a bit higher than mine and, I would assume, yours. So my best guess would be that he knows alot more about the entire situation than most Americans. More specifically, America has very impressive intelligence capabilities, so when the President says that they are working towards certain extremely destructive weapons, I will trust him.

    I think what the President is reffering to though is the declaration of all weapons and programs that the Iraqis are supposed to make on Friday. From what I've heard it will be more or less a blank sheet of paper. Now if you believe that Sadam has been sitting in his Palace's for the past 10 years and been twidling his thumbs and not devoloping these weapons, you must be retarded.

    What I'm getting at here is that if the Iraqis don't declare anything and our intelligence says just the opposite, you would be saying the same things if you were the President.

    But the President can't go telling the American people about all the different specific sites that we know about and diagram it out for everyone to see because if he did the sites would definitley be gone the very next day.

    He's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He knows they're lying but he all we can do is trust him when he tells us that. So right now everything he says sounds like a bunch of rhetoric without any basis in fact.

    The most important thing we need to do is give the inspectors time to do their work. Remember that they have only been searching for about a week or so and yes the Iraqis have been most cooperative and we haven't found anything. There are thousands of sites that have yet to be investigated and that could take a good ammount of time. I don't think anyone should be giving the Iraqis the benefit of the doubt because they've been cooperating for a week.

    Give it time. If everything works out, they cooperate and we find nothing then thats great. If they start to slip up on the cooperating then we might have to remove Sadam. The end result is all the same and we can all breathe a little easier knowing that Sadam is weaponless.

    BTW, I wasn't calling you a retard, just people that think that in general.

    Matt
     
  11. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #11
    Jesus people. Are you really so dim that you don't get it! Look, Sadam has said no WMD's exist in Iraq, and yet yesterday they found what, over 20 artillery shells filled with Mustard Gas. Geez, I wonder. think about it, they have to declare all of their WMD's by the 8th. If they say they have none, then what do you think we should do, play a game with this madman? grow up and realize that appeasement doesn't work. We learned that from Hitler. This is not about oil, or finishing his daddy's war. this is about protecting the welfare of the United States.


    Just wondering how many of you support Clinton in 98 when he asked Congress for the power to take out Sadam? If you did, then you are nothing more than a partisan Hypocrite[\b].

    For you see I supported Clinton over the 98 show down with Iraq, and was furious with him when he did not have the gumption to follow through with the directive.
     
  12. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #12
    Whoa... 20 artillery shells filled with mustard gas. Time to bring on the nukes, before those wackos take over the entire Middle East!

    I'm still waiting for the inspectors to find something.
     
  13. drastik thread starter macrumors 6502a

    drastik

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    #13
    I understand that Bush is a little higher on the security ladder, but I wasn't trying to say he should tell the whole world what he knows. I just think he should tell the UN and specifically the inspectors so they can inspect more efficiently. I agree that there hasn't been enough time to tell how Iraq will act from now on, but the President has set a deadline of next week, which isn't a lot of time to get it done.

    Though this deadline is only for the statement of disarmament, its a catch 22. If Iraq really has no weapons programs, they can't prove it. Only the search can do that. But the search won't be over saturday, but the deadline will.

    You can't prove a negative. Its the nature of proof.

    My origional post was intended to explore the reasons behind the Administrations actions in the face of opposite world opinions.

    It was also meant as a statement that President Bush and his Administration does not represent me or my views. I do not consider him a justly elected official and will not untill he is reellected cleanly. As it stands now, that will probably happen.

    And for the record, I am not anti-american at all. In fact, I consider myself a more patriotic aAmerican than anyone who would just blindly follow the administration.

    The true patriots of this nation are the ones willing to question, the ones who want to act because it is right to do so, not becuase the unelected leader tells them so. That's what democracy is about, even if we do live in a republic.
     
  14. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #14

    understandably so....likewise i have the right to participate in any thread i like or dont like. just because i may not like it doesnt mean i can not participate in it.


    not saying i do or dont like them... just saying they are redundant. same things said over and over and over and over and over... yadda yadda... you get the point.


    dig it


    ;)
     
  15. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    They will, oh, and Alex, how would you like that mustard gas let loose in your home town? I bet you would not. Also, we know without a doubt that Iraq is hiding WMD's in peoples houses, and we have satrecon that shows everything we need. UN doesn't like it then oh well, I would love for us to get out of the UN anyway. It is unconstitutuional for us to be in the UN as it is.
     
  16. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #16


    its more then just that. its a long history of defying the UN rules.. yet everyone keeps on giving him chance after chance after chance after chance...



    homeboy should be in the position Slobodan Milosevic is at least.
     
  17. Ifeelbloated macrumors regular

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    #17
    Hey Moxiemike, that picture is pretty damn funny . :D
     
  18. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #18

    And as we all know:

    20 canisters of mustard gas in Iraq ---> UN inspection teams not doing anything about them ---> My hometown being mustard gassed.
    Not only is Iraq hiding WMDs in people's houses, but they're pulverizing their U-235 supply and microscopically attaching individual particulates to the backs of desert ants. When they need it to build a WMD, they'll simply summon all the ants, squish them, microscopically remove the U-235 from them, and melt it all back down into solid material. Rumsfeld told me so, word.
     
  19. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #19
    that pic is very funny!... very funny.


    where did you get that moxie???
     
  20. drastik thread starter macrumors 6502a

    drastik

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    #20


    Artilary shells with mustard gas in them are neither weapons of mass destruction nor a threat to the American homeland.

    Hussein is not under duress to limit all weapons in his country. His soldiers can still carry rifiles and they can still have missles, etc. These are not weapons of mass destructions.

    In addition, the shells were known to be there from 1998, they were not in a production facility and they were not being stored as munitions. They were stored in a wharehouse.

    On one point you are right, Appeasement isn't an issue with people like George Bush, who has made it clear that he considers war theonly solution and who continually ignores all diplomatic evidence to the contrary. Hussein appears willing to do this in peace, and I think that trying it is better than wating lives.

    If you are of a different opinion, fine. I just don't like it that someone who is supposed to represent my views and feelings acts with such totaly disregaurd for people and policy.

    We are a civilized society, I don't shoot my neighbor for having a gun in his house that he might se on me. All options for peaceful diplomacy should be exhausted before resorting to wholesale slaughter.
     
  21. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #21
    ahh okay i see that that pic is a mad magazine poster.




    anyways...
     
  22. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #22
    You're right about Iraq having a long history of defying the UN. They've been given yet another chance, to comply, though, and although things aren't over yet, the inspections seem to be going well so far. If that ceases to be the case, and Iraq starts stonewalling again, then maybe I'll change my opinion about war. But as it stands, the current US administration is affected by too many external influences (money, power, corporations) for me to take anything they do in the rest of the world seriously. Even if Bush were staunchly anti-war, I wouldn't trust him. I'm not anti-war, I'm pro-questioning-people's-motivations-for-why-they're-doing-what-they're-doing.
     
  23. Moxiemike macrumors 68020

    Moxiemike

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    #23
    So THIS fact, that the WMDs are hidden in people's houses.... that'lll give the U.S.S.A the push we need to commit genocide, er, i mean "oust from power" those darn a-rabs... er, I mean, Saddam.

    its no secret... the U.S.S.A doesn't like the middle east. This way, we can justify using carpet bombs and killing lots of innocents. Word!

    Go us! And, as much as I supported clinton, from his views on healthcare to him getting dome in the oval office, i didn't support any attacks on Iraq, and I'm glad he didn't have the "gumption" to go into a highly uncreative war effort.

    The guiding forces of the U.S.S.A seem to have brainwashed many into believing this is about destroying a leader as bad as hilter (while having someone who's got the same megalomanical foreshadowings in office) when in reality it's about POWER, OIL, MONEY, GREED, CONTROL, AFFIRMATION. The affirmation being that Western pseudo-democracy led by upper class white men of anglo-saxon descent is the WTG!

    BTW, i got the pic from mad magazine. a friend sent it to me

    http://www.incunabula.org/images/gwposter.jpg

    m
     
  24. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #24


    yeah i hear ya... but i dont agree with your opinion that Bush jr is acting like that ... i think he actually cares for the america people compared to clinton for hella sure... you know what im saying. im not saying the cat is mother teresa... im just making a comparions point.


    and my opinion is all options are being exhausted. i could be wrong... but thats just my opinion.


    rock
     
  25. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #25

    understood man. very respectable to have that sorta observation about whats going on. i too question peoples motives and such and dont hold anyone on a higher pedestal then others because of thier party affliliation.... at least i try. i may not be as good as you at it... but im trying.


    i hope to God almighty (sorry for the religious overtone.. lol) that Bushs motives are good and pure.. or trying to be.


    :D
     

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