Have all the people who think PCs are slow and buggy ever built one?

Discussion in 'Macintosh Computers' started by ZildjianKX, Jun 10, 2003.

  1. ZildjianKX macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #1
    I'm still new to the board, but I've read a lot of people dissing Wintels saying they are slow and crash a lot... but my question is how many of you have ever built the PC you're complaining about?

    In the PC world buying a Dell or a Compaq is asking for trouble... bloated down with bad software and cheap hardware... so I'm just curious. Post away.
     
  2. aethier macrumors 6502a

    aethier

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    Feb 1, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal, Canada
    #2
    my friend builthis own, its still slow (amd athlon 1700+) and he still gets all the common errors known to peecees

    aethier
     
  3. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

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    Feb 17, 2003
    Location:
    Hitchin, Herts, UK
    #3
    I've built all the ones I ever owned and several for other people. To be honest I never had this 'my machine crashed all the time' thing but then I was careful about housekeeping and what I installed. I've had a few driver conflicts in my time such as between my Geforce Ti4400 an SB Live and a Via motherboard which were down to PCI latency issues (a regular user probably wouldn't have been able to fix it). Windows XP is very stable in my experience - it's the dodgy device drivers and crappy software that people put out that makes it unstable. Windows machines do seem to get more sluggish with time - perhaps it's just registry bloat or something.

    I came to the mac side via Linux as I basically was bored with windows and microsoft. Now I'm here I'm very happy. I've got an ibook and a 1GHZ DP powermac which although maybe slower than the top of the range PC, is faster than my brain most of the time;) It's also a lot more FUN.
     
  4. Chimaera macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    #4
    I've built all the PC's in my house and have had no problms to speak of - not counting the failure of a cooling fan in my wife's PC and me blowing a HDD, neither of which are Window's fault :)

    I would suggest its because I'm careful with my installation - I keep things neatly ordered, with regular system check and optimisations, but then my wife's machine is a right state - she installs stuff all over the place and has never known the attentions of a defragger, let alone a registry optimiser, and the only time that crashed was when the cooling fan blew and the BIOS shut the system down to protect the CPU - so personally I have no idea what the hell most of the mac nazis are going on about.

    Of course windows *used* to crash a lot - so did OS9 and its forbears :)
     
  5. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #5
    I've built a number of PC's, and repaired even more laptops.

    In my experience, if you have a clean installation and keep on top of service packs, directx etc you will have a good machine, its when you start installing non-microsoft software that things get iffy.

    However I have drive images and windows installations with updates slipstreamed into them on my hard drives, so resotring isn't so much of an issue.

    I agree however, that it is unfair for PC users who have never used a Mac to run them down, and vice versa.

    Matt
     
  6. Chimaera macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    #6
    I dunno - on my PC the only MS software is the OS and Office - everything else is done through third-party apps - I use Opera for web, Eudora for email, winampl/zoomplayer/bsplayer/winDVD for multimedia...
     
  7. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #7
    I've built and upgraded several PCs. Fixed and used manufactured PCs - Dells, Sonys, Gateways, Compaqs, HPs, Acers, etc. Out of the box, Macs are better than those. Easier to use right away, have fewer problems. In my experiance, at least. The ones I've built and upgraded have been as good as the parts. Good parts = good machine. It is fun to build-your-own.

    But I've had way more problems with Windows. All version. I HATE XP. I'm running 2000 on a Franken-PC monster, but even that has problems, and I'm constantly having to upgrade software to fix things (and I still have issues). Apple's computers seem so much easier and more fun to use. Again, in my experiance. People just kinda seem to tolerate Windows.

    I agree that anyone who hasn't used Windows shouldn't complain about it, just like anyone who hasn't used a Mac shouldn't complain about it. Even though they do. But most people who buy computers barely upgrade them, let alone build them from scratch. The fact that Dell can load all that crap on their OEM PCs is a testament to the crappiness of Windows.

    Just for the record, anyone who's a Windows supporter shouldn't go around calling Mac lovers Nazis. (just a tip) ;)

    M$ still sux.
     
  8. Wardofsky macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2002
    #8
    In terms of cheap hardware, it is essential for profit.
    Companies main goal is to sell and make profit, using the least expensieve components and still allowing it to work (with certain restrictions) can mean profit.
     
  9. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #9
    You're right if you are a stupid businessman. In the US, DaimlerChrysler's Mercedez-Benz automobiles are highly profitable. However, the Chrysler division is losing money. The key to profit is finding a market and satisfying it. If that means using butter instead of margarine, then that is what you do.
     
  10. mac15 macrumors 68040

    mac15

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    Dec 29, 2001
    Location:
    Sydney
    #10
    those common errors would be windows loading would they? :D
     
  11. vanillamike macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    #11
    I've built about 10 PCs for myself and others. True enough, I can't recall a system I built and loaded that "crashed all the time". As with everything else it comes down to maintenance. Computers run better in general when they are installed properly and made of quality part.

    However, now that "the switch" is complete I can't see myself going back to a PC. Especially since my iPod matches my eMac jk :p

    Mike
     
  12. rhpenguin macrumors 6502a

    rhpenguin

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    Jun 10, 2003
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    #12
    I am a certified A+ technician (which really has nothing to do with anything except for making it seem as if i know what im talking about) and I do have to say i have no problems with the PC platform. If you are smart about what you do with your pc you should have no problems but its when you start installing crappy third party software that really kills the Windows platform. My last PC (before making the switch a few weeks ago :D :D :D ) was ultra stable and would only crash the odd time but only under really hardcore situations when I was driving it to its fullest, or if its been up for a few weeks. IMO both platforms has its advantages (especially with a PC and Linux!) but overall i would give the advantage to Mac for just working.
     
  13. ewinemiller macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Location:
    west of Philly
    #13
    For me it seems that my home built machines are the twitchy ones. I used to build from scratch and then decided it was no longer worth my time to work at getting them stable. I'd much rather some system integrater take the time to do all that testing.

    My Dells are mostly good. I have one issue where a Dell laptop fails to wake from sleep occasionally (about once every couple of weeks), but so does my quicksilver powermac. On a Mac vs. PC competition, I'd call that one a tie. Other than that, my Dells have been problem free. My father tends to pick up HPs and Compaqs, they seems a lot more twitchy and particular, but he also installs everything under the sun on them. He's one of those "just enough knowledge to be dangerous" kind of guys.
     
  14. Chimaera macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    #14
    For a start I'm not a windows supporter - I use and enjoy both platforms extensively (linux and unix too for that matter) - I'm of the opinion they each have their advantages and disadvantages, and secondly I'm not referring to mac lovers as Nazis - I'm talking about the extreme zealots that make up a proportion of the members of these boards.
     
  15. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #15
    i think the point of us "dissing" wintels is that with a mac, we generally don't have to baby/take extreme care/maintain/build it in order for it to work.

    i don't think it's a snobby or hypocritical thing at all to expect machines to just work, regardless of how it was built or used, etc. i would understand the argument if a PC bought from bubba's PC and lawn care emporium is sub-par in quality but to say buying from dell or compaq/hp is trouble is ridiculous. those are major vendors... i'd feel they have an obligation to provide a reliable product and if they don't... well, that's a problem with the industry, i'd say.
     
  16. sparkleytone macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

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    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #16
    i've built the last three pcs i owned. yeah it was cheaper, but in the end WAY less stable and MUCH buggier than just buying an OEM machine. yeah i kept em nice and fast, but they were all just too finicky for my taste.
     
  17. Chimaera macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    #17
    I agree - the point is I don't see this - at work I deal with people with a shocking degree of computer literacy (as in 'I can't open an application' low) and my wife is someone I would class as a typical user - her machine hasn't had a reinstall or a cleanup of any description since it was built nearly two years ago (no maintenance at all, in other words) and she's had no problems, the system is rock steady, never crashes, doesn't run particularly slow given the hardware in it (ie its no speed demon, but a fresh install wouldn't be much faster).

    Fair play, I go to a lot of trouble to keep my games PC tuned, but then its tweaked to be as efficient as possible with the absolute bare minimum of CPU cycles/memory used for OS and background stuff to leave us much performance overhead as possible for games/multimedia applications, and that sort of behaviour is likely to cause more stability problems, not less, and maintaining that edge takes work, my 'work' machines aren't nearly that well looked after.

    My job entails support of both macs and PCs, with OS's running from win98 and OS7 all the way up to XP and OSX, and at each stage of the game I've found the relative stability to be about the same, 98/OS7 would fall over if you looked at them funny, whereas XP/OSX are practically crashproof.

    My reasoning behind building over buying OEM has nothing to do with stability but cost - I didn't see any reason to pay someone for work I'm more than capable of doing myself - thats just a waste of money.

    Oh and its not like Macs don't ship with a load of useless software either - just because its useless for you doesn't make it useless, period.
     
  18. tcolling macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    #18
    I have built my own PC, purchased my own PC, upgraded PC's for friends and family, purchased my own Mac, and upgraded that and am running OSX and an internal DVD burner on my 8600. I also am in the final stages of schooling as a Microsoft .NET programmer.

    In my opinion, based on my own personal experience, OSX and XP are both rock solid performers, with a slight edge to OSX. But it's very unfair to say Mac vs. Windows in this situation, because what gives Apple the advantage is the fact that they own the whole soup to nuts machine, i.e. hardware and software. Microsoft only works the software end, so they are at the mercy of whichever machine the user installs it on. Apple won't even support OSX on older machines, even if they are upgraded, because they know that there may be an intermittent problem (I've experienced it).

    As mentioned earlier, I think a lot of the problems has to do with the junk that people tend to put on their PC's, or the junk that gets automatically installed by coupon web pages, as an example. Windows shareware and freeware is so prevalent, and so available, that less savvy users tend to load up their hard drive with crap that hurts the system. Even the paid for stuff gets stolen and handed around. Multiple generations of stolen software can't be good for a system, either.
     
  19. zuggerat macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Location:
    NY
    #19
    me and my dad built a tiger mail away computer with windows 98 on it. we built everything correctly and had it checked out with my friend who's a C++ wiz and certified tech and this thing was the worse computer ive ever layed eyes on...never worked after the second day...it's smoldering in my backyard right now...u know WWDC and all
     
  20. Sabenth macrumors 6502a

    Sabenth

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    Jan 24, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #20
    I have bulit on last count 25 pcs used to work in a pc store got all the good bits to play with till the store closed down...

    But of all of them ive bulit 4 of them for myself the most reacent one been a amd chipset system with a 1600xp 512sdram 40gig drive and a geforece 2 64ddr card windows xp home...

    Ive had nothing but problems with it not because it was put together wrong or anything but the fact that the os windows just keeps corupting it gose though a stage were you make a file say in word and when you come to open it it locks the system up and i dont just mean the system says end program nope it means a complet re install of windows because i cant get back into windows with out booting the cd which of course i dont so i recomend either a cd bunner or an external HD for windows if anyone asks me what to buy ... Ive switched to mac because of linux at least in linux nothing major happens oh i did have to buy and external modem for it because i couldnt at the time compile the drivers need for my modem but now i know how and well windows hardly gets used these days ......

    but wait iam using windows right now because i cant use the same net connection thats why... and reason is on this pc....
     
  21. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    Apr 3, 2003
    #21
    of course... indiv. experiences vary. in my case, i've witnessed a few PCs just deteriorate in performance. not crash. not freeze. but deteriorate under fairly normal use, no free/sharewares.

    computer is an inorganic object. it should not deteriorate, as if it's alive. i've personally come to the conclusion that it's due to windows bloat and cheapo parts. this is strictly my opinion based on my experience.

    it's not apple's fault they decide to deal with both hardware and software. i personally would like to see PC manufacturers and M$ improve their coordination. it might also help if M$ would open up their code. they have way too much influence in the computing world and bad rep./history to be trusted to do the right thing on their own, IMO.
     
  22. ewinemiller macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Location:
    west of Philly
    #22
    From my experience the Macs aren't really any better at this than the PCs though. Agreed that they are more stable out of the box than the average homegrown, but not any better than most mainstream OEMs. I was just following a thread here the other day where someone suggested doing a fresh install as soon as you got your new Mac to maximize performance and stability. Sounds like what I do when I get my new PCs. I've even run into a few occasions where a fresh install of the OS on the Mac was what it took to get it stable again, just like the Windows platform is always accused of needing. It seems pretty much the same to me.
     
  23. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    Apr 3, 2003
    #23
    again, it's all personal experience.

    i don't have any proof, so i won't re-iterate my points or expand my opinion into something "general." however, you are at a mac forum and i believe (no proof) many of us have had some kind of bad experience dealing with PCs. so my inclination is that it's natural for this forum to be slanted toward a mac being more stable...
     
  24. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #24
    When I first got my PowerBook 12", I was quite dissapointed with the performance so did a Xbench to see what happened, and got around 50 each time.

    Then I did a clean install and got around 70 each time.

    In my case, it was well worth it!

    AppleMatt
     
  25. KershMan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Location:
    VA, USA
    #25
    I agree. I learned about a guy named Deming in college (I do not remember his first name) who was a Quality Management guru and taught a philosophy of Total Quality Management (TQM). His basic philosophy was you demand top quality from everyone in your supply chain and everyone in your manufacturing chain and you will build superior products that will sell. The Japanese jumped on the TQM bandwagon after WWII and had Deming help develop their automobile industry.

    This TQM philosophy was how Toyota was able to come to the states and sell their cars in direct contention with the big 3 American auto makers. And they have done pretty darn good. People didn't mind spending a few thousand extra for a Toyota over a Ford or Dodge because of the reputation. But a few thousand on a 20K car over 5 or 6 years does not look like that much.

    Apple I think takes the same approach in how the control their product. Despite their small market share, they have a core following of very loyal customers and billions of cash in the bank. Now if they can continue to make their prices comparable to high-mid range PCs, I think their market share will pick up.

    Oh, and back on the original topic. I have built for myself, family, and friends about a dozen PCs in the past 5 or 6 years with either an Intel or AMD chip. Never had a real hardware problem. I picked mostly top of the line parts. Many of this systems I ran Linux on and they were rock solid.

    The Windows ones were always buggy up to Win 2K and then XP. Win 2K and XP are much better, but they still have problems. The way Windows works with DLLs and drivers I think will always make this generation more buggy. There are too many shared resources and some software does not play nice with others overwriting and changing DLL files.
     

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