HD Footage Viewable on none HD tv's?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by illegalprelude, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. illegalprelude macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    #1
    As many of you might know and have seen from my recent topics, im very interested on the Sony FX1 camera. the camera, native can shoot in HDV, widescreen. If you dont want to shoot HD, you can simply switch over to just DV.

    If I shoot HD with it, editing on my Mac and edit in HD, when I export, do I export in some HD format? or just export as I always do? and if I do export in HD, does that mean it wont show none HD tv's?
     
  2. notjustjay macrumors 603

    notjustjay

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    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Canada, eh?
    #2
    Video can always be downsampled, so yes, you'll be able to watch your HD video on non HD TV's.

    Or put it this way - DVD is technically encoded in an HD format (480p), and yet people watch it through their TV's RF inputs (definitively non-HD input) all the time. You just don't get the quality.

    FX1, eh? Cool. I have a VX2000 which I'm very happy with. I might upgrade to HD eventually... but first, I need a job ;)
     
  3. illegalprelude thread starter macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    Mar 10, 2005
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    #3
    ahh ic ic. So me shooting in HD, i can edit in HD and dump out in HD and put on DVD. for those who have HD tv's, they can enjoy the quality of it and for those who dont have HD, they will just get whatever quality their TV plays for them?

    hows the vx2000 treating u btw?
     
  4. risc macrumors 68030

    risc

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    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    #4
    480p isn't HD it is standard definition progressive scan. The technical term for a TV that does 480p is EDTV. HDTV includes 720p, 1080i, 1080p. There are NO DVD players that do HD, you'll have to wait for Blu-ray or HD-DVD recorders/players to appear on the market.
     
  5. jared_kipe macrumors 68030

    jared_kipe

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    #5
    To my knowledge, you cannot see HD content from a DVD player.
     
  6. notjustjay macrumors 603

    notjustjay

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    Canada, eh?
    #6
    OK, I stand corrected on the DVD issue. I should have said DTV instead of HDTV. :)

    ... everything else I said is still correct though :p
     
  7. illegalprelude thread starter macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #7
    So is there no point to an HD Camera or will I get higher quality? Cause I know no HD dvd players exist on the cosumer market.

    So whats the point of the HD camer and the Mac's being able to edit HD? Once I export all my material and make a dvd, am i correct to think, those with HD tv's will enjoy a sharper quality while those with none HD tv's be able to enjoy whatever their tv's can offer or am I totally confused and it could be the case :D
     
  8. VanMac macrumors 6502a

    VanMac

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    May 26, 2005
    Location:
    Rampaging Tokyo
    #8
    DVD's do not to HD.

    You could upload the HD edited movie back to your camera, and then watch the content on your HD tv directly from cam.

    Or, you could open up your own HD broadcasting station, but that could be expensive.... :rolleyes:
     
  9. illegalprelude thread starter macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    #9
    well...they do support HDV witch is what the sony shoots correct. in essense, its not true HD right? Cause I dont get what the point of having that camera would be if there no way you can show off your HD footage.

    So for example, macs can edit HD but cant show anybody else the HD footage? :confused:

    i dunno, i think im getting more confused
     
  10. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #10
    Currently the only way to watch HD is either via cable, satellite, OTA b'cast, or playback from your HD camera or deck.

    Right now, unless you are planning on going to film/digital project or are doing a project to be transmitted in HD there's not much, if any, benefit of shooting HD if you are just going to finish SD. Yes, there is the "future proofing" aspect, but you have to ask yourself does your project have a viable shelf life long enough to warrant the extra time and money it will take to do it in HD?


    Lethal
     
  11. barneygumble macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 18, 2005
    #11
    And your computer of course ;)
     
  12. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Los Angeles
    #12
    Of course. :)
     
  13. illegalprelude thread starter macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

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    Mar 10, 2005
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    Los Angeles, California
    #13
    very well said. so keeping that in mind, no, none of the work i have in mind are going to have a shelf life of more then a year to push me ahead to do greater things. If i invested in this camera, basicly, I would be paying to own an HD camera, but for all my projects, I would be down grading to normal DV anycase so I might as well just buy a regular Mini DV cam and not HD.

    im thinking right about all of this?
     
  14. Espnetboy3 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    #14
    Shooting in HD then downconverting to SD will still look better than someone shooting in SD from start. Isnt betacamSP as good of quality and cant it hold hi def stuff? SP not just betacam or digibeta
     
  15. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
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    Los Angeles
    #15
    illegalprelude,

    Yeah, if are just getting a camera to do your own stuff with I would get an SD camera. I'd only go HD if you will being using the camera
    to generate income and you have clients that are asking for HD.


    Espnetboy3,
    I used to think the same thing, but the more I've read up on video I've learned that, all other things being equal, a native SD camera will
    producer an equal or better SD image than an SD image derived from a HD native.

    BetacamSP (which replaced "betacam" so long ago that people refer to BetaSP as "betacam") and MiniDV are basically equal as a format. I.e. if you took footage from a $20,00 BetaSP camera and compared it to footage from a $20,000 DV camera the footage would be comparable in quality. Digibeta, I believe, is as high quality as SD can get. But it can't hold a candle to HDCAM.

    Something else to keep in mind is there are various types and qualities of HD. HDV and HDCAM are both flavors of HD but if you think a $2000 HDV camera is going to look anything remotely close to a $100,00 HDCAM camera yer on crack. ;)


    Lethal
     
  16. Rod Rod macrumors 68020

    Rod Rod

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    #16
    There's the IO Data AveL LinkPlayer, which plays DivX HD files from CD-Rs, DVDs, USB 2 devices and networked hard drives.
    http://www.iodata.com/products/products.php?cat=HNP&ts=2&tsc=15&sc=AVEL
    There's the player I just mentioned as well as a variety of D-VHS decks.

    You can use Toast 7 to create DivX HD discs to play in the AveL LinkPlayer. You can use VirtualDVHS to output your MPEG-2 transport streams from your Mac to a D-VHS deck. Squeeze 4.1 should be able to convert your FCP HDV or AIC file to a D-VHS friendly .ts.
     
  17. illegalprelude thread starter macrumors 68000

    illegalprelude

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    #17
    Good info as always lethal.
    This leads me to ask a few more questions.

    1. Is downconverting from HD to SD something that done during editing? As in I would just shoot in native HD and then edit in FCP but when exporting, I would choose an none HD export?

    2. Would shooting in HD and downconverting to SD look the least better? In terms maybe sharper colors and such? (Im just trying to convince myself that its still the right camera cause I really do like it).

    3. What other Camera would you recommend for around $3k? There is the Panasonic GLX100 and Canon XL1. I really really dont like the Panasonic myself. I dunno, ive never seen good footage with it.
     
  18. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #18
    How many people have that specific DVD player and how many people have D-VHS players? Yes, there are exceptions here and there, but reasonably speaking there is no simple and mainstream way to view HD content on yer HDTV outside of the ones I mentioned. Easily outputting yer HD homemovie onto an HD tape/optical medium and taking it over to the neighbor's house to watch isn't a reality right now. It's like, yes you can physically remove the lens from an FX1/Z1U and mod the camera housing to accept 35mm SLR lens, but I'm gonna run around saying the FX1/Z1U has interchangeable lenses.

    illegalprelude,
    You can go HD->SD->FCP or HD->FCP-SD. Ideally you want to keep the workflow at the highest quality for as long as possible. So, if you can, save the down-convert for last you should.
    By "GLX100" did you mean DVX100? If you are going to be shooting narratives or anything you think should would benefit from a "film look" I don't think there is anything better in that price range. If you've only seen bad footage come out of the DVX100 you've only seen bad operators using it. Besides the Canon and Panny there seem to be a lot of people that swear by Sony's PD-170.


    Lethal
     

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