HD video...

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by flahiker, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. flahiker macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    #1
    I hope this is not too dumba question...

    I was thinking about buying the new sony HD handycam. I believe it is the HDR-HC3 that can do 1080p.

    So, after you shoot footage with this camera, capture and edit it, what next? Burn it to a standard DVD? If so, why shoot in 1080p in the first place? Anyone have any ideas?:confused:
     
  2. Nuc macrumors 6502a

    Nuc

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    TN
    #2
    I got a HDR-HC1 so that in the future I could record HD to blue-ray or whatever becomes the standard. Also the quality is very good if you export to H.264... For right now you can just connect your camcorder straight to your HDTV.

    Nuc
     
  3. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #3
    It shoots 1080i, and the lack HD options is the reason why I think getting an HD camera right now is more "gadget freak" than "practical purchase".


    Lethal
     
  4. danleykubrick macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    #4
    1080i/p

    If the camera supports 1080p, and not just 1080i, it will look slightly better if mastered properly on DVD than native footage will. That is why so many direct to DVD movies and TV shows look better. It will also look better on an HDTV, or if converted to Digibeta or D1 (assuming the extra compression doesn't kill the image).

    On the other hand, as a film professional, I can tell you that a film shot on a 1ccd hi8 camcorder, but lit properly, looks better than something lit like crap but shot on 70mm fuji stock (OK, maybe a bit extreme). If you are trying to decide between a 3-ccd SD camera and a 1ccd HD camera, I would say the 3ccds is more important than the extra resolution, even if you are planning to output to film later. If you are planning to output to film, you should be shooting with a 3-ccd 1080p camera, uncompressed if you can. And you should probably output to atleast super16, ever 35.
     
  5. JFreak macrumors 68040

    JFreak

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    #5
    Are there 1080p cameras already? I thought it's still 720p and 1080i...
     
  6. maximile macrumors member

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    Oct 27, 2003
    Location:
    Herefordshire, UK
    #6
    Apple has a standard (not sure how widely used it is) for burning HD video to a standard DVD. This means you can burn a DVD using DVD Studio Pro 4, and it can contain HD content that will play on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives. You can also do DVDs that contain content for standard DVD players too (confusingly called 'hybrid').

    The HD content is compressed using H.264 or MPEG2.

    I can't find anywhere any details on how much video can be squeezed onto a standard DVD using this method, but I'd imagine you could get something approaching the length of a feature film. Of course, it depends on the compressor settings you use. If anyone has any more details about this, or has used it themselves, I'd be really interested to hear about it.

    I would also imagine that this would cause lots of trouble. I bet many players are going to have difficulties with this format. However, it's easy to see if your Mac supports it - from the Help menu in DVD Player, ask to "Show Supported Features". If HD is listed, your computer can play HD and hybrid DVDs.
     
  7. flahiker thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    #7
    Thanks for the info. And yes, the camera is only 1080i. :(

    I am NOT a professional videographer or even serious amateur yet. I am a serious amateur nature photographer. I want to eventually be able to create compelling nature doccumentaries especially with underwater footage. The HC3 will fit nicely in either an Ikelite or Top Dawg housing. unfortunately my inexpensive panasonic will not work with the housings. I will need a LANC compatable camera. Should I just buy a LANC camera now and upgrade later???
     
  8. spicyapple macrumors 68000

    spicyapple

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    #8
    It's like shooting on color film, but only being able to develop prints in b&w. That wouldn't stop people from shooting on color film.

    Think of shooting HD as a way to preserve for the future. All your raw footage will be in a higher quality, high resolution format. Personally, I think SD cameras are dead.
     
  9. Carl Spackler macrumors 6502

    Carl Spackler

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    #9
    For one, you are caputuring a great deal more information and a technically better image. Since you are capturing at a much higher bitrate than an SD camera, you can encode at that native, higher bitrate on your DVD, thus a better image than SD. You are an early adopter and I for one thank you. As another menetioned, you're also shooting at a higher quality that will be the standard in a few years, ensuring a your footage has legs.
     
  10. live4ever macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 13, 2003
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    Thunder Bay, ON
    #10
    I'm going to wait 'til DVCPRO HD cameras come down in price shooting in HDV is a pain to edit and the new AVC cameras won't be any better. I'd love to get a Panasonic AG-HVX200 if I had the money.
     
  11. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

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    East Coast
    #11
    Actually, the bit rate of DV and HDV is exactly the same. 25 MB/s (or is that Mb/s).

    The difference between DV and HDV is that DV uses DV compression and HDV uses MPEG2.

    That isn't to say that HDV footage looks better or not. Your other points are valid.

    ft
     
  12. Carl Spackler macrumors 6502

    Carl Spackler

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    #12
    Allow me to make my own point even mooter. I think the video bit rate on DVD is significantly less than 25. Disregard my point about bitrate, though I think HDV is the way to go as I'd much rather "dumb down" my resoultion. Plus, they aren't that much more than a nice SD camera and the longevity is much greater.

    word.
     
  13. faustfire macrumors 6502a

    faustfire

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    California
    #13
    usually DVD bitrate is between 5.5 and 7 mbps.
     
  14. eXan macrumors 601

    eXan

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    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Russia
    #14
    Buying a consumer HD video camera is totally pointless now. With it you can 1) shoot in HD,2) edit in HD, 3)theres not step 3! True, the only way you can view your HD video is to connect a camera to HD TV which is not the best way of showing your work.
     
  15. BrianMojo macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #15
    Don't be silly. Down-converting to DVD still looks better than something shot on SD, just as something shot on 35mm duped onto VHS looks better than something shot on VHS. And besides, there are HD DVD and Blu-ray burners and players, they just aren't widespread yet. So there is a step 3, it's just not ideal.
     
  16. killr_b macrumors 6502a

    killr_b

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    Oct 21, 2005
    Location:
    Suckerfornia
    #16
    I have thoroughly looked over the current HD cams and I have to say, what a bunch of crap. I've been doing video for almost 15 years... HDV is a joke and p2 cards need to die a firey death. Ten minutes for over a grand? WTF!? And why are the firestore drives (iPods w/ 100GB disks) like $1700?
    I'm not sure what they were thinking, but they for sure came out with HD way too soon. (small rant)

    Jvc's short gop is ok, but 25mb/ sec? That's 5 higher than an HD/ BR DVD. Weak.

    But i have to say that 1080i or 720p footage dumped to DVD does look slightly better than SD DV. But it ain't worth the cost.

    Don't be silly. I burn all my clients DVD's at avg. 9mb/ sec. And Hollywood uses 10-12.

    Not even practical is more acurate.
    The only HD I've ever been requested to do was a music video shot with the Genesis HD cam from Panavision. The only reason for that is because it's goes with a movie that will be out soon.
    And the director was a picky biatch, typical.

    LANC control is handy. HDV is lame. My 2cents.
     
  17. REDSRT4 macrumors regular

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    Jul 20, 2006
    #17
    I have heard nothing but great things about the HC3, i have sold quite a few at work and everyone loves them, they usually just connect them directly to their hd tv for the time being
     
  18. spicyapple macrumors 68000

    spicyapple

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    Jul 20, 2006
    #18
    If you can get a hold of them, the Sony HC1 is better than the HC3, even though the HC3 is supposed to be the HC1 replacement.
     
  19. spicyapple macrumors 68000

    spicyapple

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    Jul 20, 2006
    #19
    Yeah, HDV is so lame it only cost $3 for 1 hour of HD storage, whereas storing Genesis HD requires only a small $50,000 investment in RAID drives.
     
  20. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #20
    It's all a trade off. Obviously the $5k toys won't be as good as the $100k toys, but a $5k toy is better than no toy at all. And while doing DVCProHD on P2 costs more than doing HDV on tape it's still worlds cheaper than doing DVCProHD (or HDCAM) on tape.

    The whole thing w/HD right now is really not that different than SD was back when things start going digital not to long again. DV was originally a consumer format that, to the ire of many video professions, turned out to be "good enough" for pro work.

    I'm not quite sure why you are comparing iPods to Firestores. That's pretty Apples to Oranges. The Firestore is basically a tapeless deck. It takes the data stream out of the FW port, captures it, puts a wrapper on it (QT, AVI, OMF, etc.,), reads the metadata, and preps it for editing (basically everything your NLE does when you capture clips). It's not like a memory stick where the camera goes, "Hey, that's a memory stick. I can read/write to that." The camera has no clue what to do if you plug a FW HDD into it so the storage devices has to be "smart" and know how to properly handle the data it gets via FW. You also have to consider economy of scale when looking at the price. The Firestore is a niche product in a niche industry so Focus Enhancements will sell significantly few Firestores than Apple will iPods so Apple can charge less per unit.

    Most feature film DVDs have a video bit rate much lower than 10-12 (if for no other reason than the DVD spec tops out at a video bit rate of 9.8 and a rule of thumb is to keep it below 9 'cause some players will choke on anything higher).


    It's practical if you have a paying client that wants HD.


    Lethal
     
  21. tipdrill407 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    #21
    Yes Apple does have a standard but i believe it only allows you to playback the video on a mac not a DVD Player, or blu ray player or HD-DVD Player.
     
  22. Rod Rod macrumors 68020

    Rod Rod

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    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    #22
    The Sonys (HC3, HC1) have 1 CMOS, which is supposed to be better than 1 CCD.
    HD-DVDs burned with DVDSP 4 onto red-laser DVDs will play back on HD-DVD players. There was a Toshiba prototype at NAB doing exactly that, playing back a DVDSP 4 authored HD-DVD.

    If you have a Mac and a FireWire-equipped HDTV, you can play HD transport streams (.m2t and .ts) on your HDTV. If you have any HDTV plus either an HDV camera, HDV deck or D-VHS deck, you can play HD transport streams (.m2t and .ts) on your HDTV. Another option is the Linkplus player sold by Iodata and JVC.

    edit: What you need to play back HD content is Virtual DVHS, which is now a Universal Binary and available in Apple's FireWire SDK. You also need to convert your content to .ts or .m2t, which you can do by way of MPEG Streamclip, among other options.
     
  23. dejo Moderator

    dejo

    Staff Member

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    Sep 2, 2004
    Location:
    The Centennial State
    #23
    There's another way to watch your HD video that would suffice as step 3: Watch it on your computer! You could even upload the video to your webspace and allow others to view your HD content as well. Apple has been doing this with their HD movie trailers for quite some time now.
     
  24. VaTech03 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    #25
    I have an HC3, and I can't speak highly enough of it. I'm in Maui right now, and I just got some amazing underwater footage of a huge pod of spinner dolphins with Sony's Sport Pack housing. It truly is amazing what this camera is capable of. I was out there with a guy shooting for Expedia, and I believe he was sold on the HC3 before I ever said a thing about it.

    As for editing--listen, it's quite simple. You edit on your MAC/PC, save the "movie" in its native format (1080i), and right now: you burn to DVD for your friends/family/clients; Later: you simply burn to whatever becomes the HD standard.

    Now go start having some fun.

    Just make sure you have a TON of hard disk space.... :)
     

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