Healthcare

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Ugg, May 24, 2005.

  1. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #1
    Link

    This group has some pretty big backers, including GM, GE, most of the telcos, etc. Also Bush the first.

    How long can those lily-livered congressmen, avoid the issue? I know much of it has to do with Hilary. Any championing of her efforts is of course an endorsement of her and the Republicans of course don't want that.



    On a side note, my sister and I have been plowing through website after website to find information for our parents about the upcoming Medicare Drug Benefit. Medicare's website is mostly useless and in many cases misleading. Nonetheless, we think we've discovered what we need for our parents (we hope). I've got tons of information that in the next few days I'm going to compile and post here. If any of you are eligible or have loved ones who are, be prepared for some big surprises, not least of all is the fact that this hand out to big Pharma and big business is more or less mandatory, not optional.
     
  2. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #2
    Don't you get the feeling that big business is playing catch up at this point?

    Where would we be if ideas like this were properly considered when they were presented years ago?

    This should be a huge red flag for some.
     
  3. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

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    #3
    We live in a free market economy but we can't buy imported drugs. If this makes sense to anyone, please let me know. If the US wants to save its economy, the value of its currency in particular, then it needs to move toward full blown socialized healthcare. Most European nations have this, and check out the value of the Euro. I would pay higher taxes because it would take a lot of taxes to get to the $400 a month that health insurance costs (plus the deductable).

    Ain't that the truth.

    This is a growing problem- let the employees take care of it. It's nice to see benefits decreasing while wages can't keep pace with inflation.
     
  4. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #4
    I pay half of my insurance every month ($180.00) and my company picks up the other half. Not what I was promised, but that is another story.

    This whole healthcare issue is a hard nut to crack. People in Canada who can affor dit come to the U.S. for healthcare, and many of us still desire socialized medicine, but then again, I have fridns in the UK who wait quite some time to get procedures (like a simple wart removal) done.

    *shrug*
     
  5. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #5
    John Kerry's plan maintained a free market system but used a giant (and optional) federal insurance plan.

    We needn't have "socialised medicine" to make healthcare universally and practically available.
     
  6. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #6
    Isn't that Medicare?

    Edit: Less the "optional?"
     
  7. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #7
    Looks like my prediction is coming true. I want credit! :eek:
     
  8. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

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    #8
    There are people in the US who wait a long time to get a wart removal done because they can't afford to pay the doctor. I would gladly wait if it didn't cost me.
     
  9. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #9
    Link

    There are elements of truth to the claim that the US has the best health care. You just have to balance that out by recognizing that the best part of the system is incredibly limited in who it is available to. And for all the money spent, coverage is not even comprehensive.
     
  10. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    I don't remember Kerry's plan, but I liked Howard Dean's plan - it let anyone buy into the federal employee's health plan at cost, and then it subsidized the premiums for very low income individuals. I thought it was a great solution, and it helped make me an early Dean supporter. (A Deaniac? What were they called?)

    I do agree that health care is the biggest problem this country is facing, and education is a close second. I don't see how the baby boomers are going to get health care in retirement, and even if medicare picks up their tab, that'll bankrupt the rest of the country. I don't know why they're not screaming bloody murder about this. On the other hand, I don't think the answer is nationalized health care, but instead a regulated market solution.

    BTW I wouldn't be surprised if in 2025 I'm getting taxed 50% to support the baby boomers pensions, health care, etc. When that happens I'll just move to Hong Kong or Singapore or Dubai I guess and leave you suckers to pay the boomer bill. :)
     
  11. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #11
    That was Kerry's plan.
     
  12. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #12
    i work in a hospital and i can tell you that medicare sucks. every single test has to have a specific diagnosis or the patient has to pay 100% of the test, while the other health insurances will allow leway. We are ALWAYS calling drs offices for a diagnosis because the one we have doesn't work. and the price of these tests can vary from 9 dollars for a PT to well over 100 for a CRP and CA125

    i had blood work done and the total came to 2,700+ thankfully i have BCBS
     
  13. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    The idea that Canadians are streaming across the border to obtain routine medical services in the US is just ridiculous. Liposuction, tummy-tucks, and other elective surgeries for people who can afford them, perhaps -- but not routine services.

    You want to talk ridiculous? My retired father, who is on Medicare, had cataracts in both of his eyes and was steadily losing his vision. He was signed up for one of those Medicare HMOs. The HMO would have covered correction in only one eye. That's right, according to the insurance company, he'd have to go blind in the other. So he re-enrolled in a conventional Medicare plan. The premiums are higher, but Medicare covered corrective surgery in both eyes -- thanks to which, his vision is better now than it was 50 years ago. The heavy glasses he wore every day for all of his adult life are gone, replaced by drug store reading glasses.

    Health care should be about outcomes. It should be about making people healthy. The insurance industry has no interest in either.
     
  14. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #14
    so with all the cuts being made,reduced benefits and increased amount you have to pay with the last government austria still scores a 9th position ? believe it or not the politicians still comply about the whole thing and try to privatisize the whole thing more towards the US "model" *grasp* what a brilliant idea :rolleyes:

    looks like the way of having an affordable federal program for normal protection (you need to have that over here) and additional private ones for those who want premium is the way to go ... that way most people are protected (99,5%) and those who would like single bed rooms in hospital simply pay something premium to their private insurance companies
     
  15. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #15
    That says it all right there. That's exactly where essential services fall out of the idealized "free market" model.

    When you have institutions whose proffits are inherently driven by "repeat business" in a market where there's very little choice over whether or not you can have to work done (see: racketeering) it's quite logical to expect that the customer will get routinely screwed.

    This is exactly why Healthcare (and "correctional" facilities) should not be privately run.
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    We haven't entirely decided in this country whether health care is a right or a privilege. For most of the rest of the world, this is a no-brainer proposition, but not here. A year or so ago (before you started posting here I guess), this debate raged frequently. Back then we had one regular contributor who wasn't afraid to express the opinion that people who didn't have access health care probably didn't deserve access, and if they died from a lack of care, then so what. Perfect social Darwinism (the only kind of Darwinism some people believe in, apparently).

    In any event, I've predicted several times on this board that we'd get universal access to health care in the US when corporations got together and demanded it, and not a minute sooner. Evidently, those wheels are now in motion.
     
  17. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #17
    I was in those debates. I've been around longer than U IJ :eek: , I just have long bouts of Reality intrude on my posting. ;) :D

    I too have been predicting the inevitability of Universal healthcare... But I've also been predicting a last-ditch, entreanched resistance to it.
     
  18. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #18
    My predictions are always wrong but that never stopped me before so here goes:

    I predict that the US will have Universal healthcare in the next 20-30 years. It will be a rough grind though if the GOP stays in charge.

    Corporations are going to start demanding a solution since they cant compete on a global scale if they have to keep providing healthcare subsidies to their employees in the US. What I predict will happen will be the evolution of a pre-tax medical account coupled with the catastrophic insurance solution will come in first. This will effectively push the entire Heathcare burden on to the employees. Corporations will not pass their newfound savings onto the employees.

    After a couple of years a "new" type of insurance will emerge for the routine medical expenses as an alternative to the pre-tax medical account. Now we have created two insurance industries out of one and shifted the entire cost on to the individual.

    After a few more years someone will realize that no actual reform has actually occurred and that individuals got completely screwed for the benefit of big business. One of the political parties of the time will run with the promise of Universal Health care and sweep the elections controlling Congress and the Executive branch allowing for the passage of UHC.

    Many more years down the road the opposition will try their best to dismantle the successful program pointing to it's cost and inevitable banruptcy. What happens next is beyond my ability to foresee.
     
  19. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Interesting prediction - I would have to agree, more or less. However, I don't think the US will stand for the following:

    I make $100k a year, Joe makes $20k. Thus, I pay $10k/yr for health insurance, while Joe pays $2k.

    That's how it is in Europe, they just hide it with tax rates. But I don't think that will fly in the US. I think there will be some premium caps, like the most I can pay is $6k, while the least Joe can pay is $2k, and the average is $4k.
     
  20. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #20
    In this forum? I joined about three years ago; don't remember you dropping in here until some time afterwards (one of those bouts of reality I suppose -- you really must watch those). Well you remember the health care debates anyway, and our resident proud cold-hearted SOB. Like Churchill said, "it doesn't take all kinds, there just are all kinds."

    If the last few years are any indication, the entrenched interests resisting universal health care could be brought on board in a hurry if they are enriched in the process. Think Medicare drug benefit. This is the model which is likely to be followed, sadly.

    I didn't say it would be good, just that it would happen.
     
  21. anonymous161 macrumors 6502

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    #21
    I find it humorous that the government takes upon itself the delivery of letters to every household and the construction of highways yet feels it shouldn't interfere in healthcare.
     
  22. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #22
    hmm but somehow the US manages to have the highest rating from all countries in that study from the WHO (13.something percent compared to 9 i think in austria..)

    the important thing with this WHO study is that they include things like those pesky 4.something you pay (depending on the "Land" = "State") ... for you whole family

    at least no family member had to worry about medical bills or something so far and quite few have needed extensive stays (like my brother needed 4-5 weeks)
    sure if you like to have those white fillings at the dentist, lighter glasses you pay more but it's not something you might declare personal bankrupt because of a freaking blood test

    (funny news of the week: the city of Vienna is considering making DNA tests with dog...well excrements... to find out the dog to make the owner pay for not cleaning up after his dog... imagine _that_ )
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Isn't that how you pay for "defence"? Why should you stand for a situation where Joe pays 20% of what you pay for defence? Outrageous!
     
  24. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    I build my own fence. You like de fence? You build it yourself! Now defense spending... that's another matter, although I hear you Brits put a 'c' where the 's' should go. ;)
     
  25. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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