help being sued for using apples freeplay loops!

Discussion in 'Community' started by theabombjazz, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. theabombjazz macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego
    #1
    hello there, I got a big problem.

    I edit alot of things, but my bread and butter, happens to be ADULT video.
    now lets not get all huffy about that, we all know work is work and ADULT is recession proof ...

    anyway, like many editors, i have been using APPLE's FREEPLAY, royalty free loops.

    for years..

    well , now apples attorney's has contacted my employer saying it is illegal and that the contract states NO ADULT PRODUCTIONS.

    I am going to read it again for course..

    and another editor said to me, "it never used to " but now "it does"

    does anyone have any idea's or advice, or a screen shot of this "possible" old agreement, NOT containing "NO ADULT CONTENT"?

    when I hear "royalty free' I think "royalty free" , like big fish audio loops, and the thousands offered by ACID etc...

    you know what I mean?

    my future depends on this

    thanks so much

    please feel free to email me at
    thekeith@mac.com

    (isnt that why I pay $100 a year for .mac?....for all the free stuff)
     
  2. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    Location:
    The "Garden" state
    #2
    i dont know what the contract states, but i just checked with my roommate who's in law school...she said its perfectly legal to have that in the contract...she said most cases involving computer-related contracts (ie terms of service agreements, etc) are usually very very stringent...its "insane the amount of rights you give away."

    so i would consult with a lawyer but chances are it doesnt look so good for you...but if you're really convinced it was never in the original you could probably get a court to supoeana (sp?) the incarnations of the contract and the dates they were changed.

    (although it seems unlikely apple would change the contract without telling you and then use it against you unless you signed something agreeing to follow any changes they set forth...but yea, not likely)

    it sucks dude...keep us posted on what goes on.

    -c
     
  3. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Location:
    51st State of America
  4. bbarnhart macrumors 6502a

    bbarnhart

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Location:
    Stilwell, Kansas
    #4
    I had a co-worker who said that he wrote music and performed music for a couple of porn video's. Don't know if he actually did. He said a lot of things that I didn't believe. Anyway, he's sitting in some jail now because of an unrelated incident. That porn make you crazy.
     
  5. raynegus macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2003
    #5
    I don't know, maybe we could help if we saw a sample of your work...
     
  6. 748s macrumors 6502a

    748s

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Location:
    Tiger Bay
    #6
    the pdf with 'terms of use' was created november 14th 2003.
    i can't recall a terms of use being there when i downloaded the tracks,
    late 2002 or early 2003.
    good time to switch to soundtrack or garage band.
    if you can prove no terms of use were there pre 14th nov you might be ok, if not, to quote tex perkins (Legend).....
    "better get a lawyer son, better get a real good one".
     
  7. Stike macrumors 65816

    Stike

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Germany
    #7
    Information first

    The Freeplay Songs were available on the Apple iDisk while .mac was still called iTools. The songs were a free download after registering back then.
    I downloaded them all before .mac has been activated and my account has been closed. The songs are not produced by Apple, but by freeplay, and I thought I could use those songs without any problems.

    To be sure, I read the terms on the freeplay homepage.

    You should have done this too. Freeplay actually states there (yes even back in that time) that the use of their songs is free as long as no profit is made. That means the songs are NOT free for commercial use.

    You should have contacted the freeplay guys back then before you started using them commercially. It would have been one eMail... and it would have saved you a lot of trouble now.
    Too bad for you, really.

    Try to settle it and stick to Garageband and Soundtrack in the future! :p
     
  8. crenz macrumors 6502a

    crenz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    #8
    Garageband and Soundtrack can be used commercially, but are they really unrestricted? Maybe Apple doesn't like Porn :)
     
  9. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Location:
    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    #9
    no thats the next app in the iTools family. iPorn.
     
  10. Stike macrumors 65816

    Stike

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Location:
    Germany
    #10
    This would be strange - since royalty free means there is no license, so how could they restrict the usage? Or did I get something wrong there...?

    At least it would be stupid to restrict MUSICAL SOFTWARE in their usage - like "You may not film Adult material with our Canon cameras" or "You may not use Logic to produce porn music" or "This Yamaha keyboard may not be used in adult video productions" AND SO ON

    So I think... WTH are they thinking? They give us a product to produce stuff with, and then they cap the usage rights?

    Whats next then... Metallica forbidding the use of their music when youre sleeping with your significant other?? This is laughable. I buy the product to use it. Unrestricted. Basta! :D
     
  11. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #11
    doesn't royalty free mean just that? no royalties? i don't see how it has anything to do with licensing...

    many open software are free but there are licenses, the most famous being GPL...

    just because it doesn't cost anything doesn't mean you can do whatever you want...
     
  12. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    Location:
    The "Garden" state
    #12

    thats a really good way of putting it...
    its sort of like owning a dvd for private use, but not being able to charge your neighbors to come over and watch it with you.
    not the greatest comparison but its the same general idea.
     
  13. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #13
    I think you should be able to get a settlement.

    BUT dont admit that you did wrong! Wrong = you know that it wasnt right and you did it.

    Just say that you thought that royalty free had no restriction and never read the licence fully. This is a good defence because these /$%/$ licences are way too long and complicated to read. Ignorance and good faith is always the best deffence, trust me...

    Then ask them which product they recommend you to use according to your need. They will probably say ST. Buy it and you are set...
     
  14. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #14
    Not true at all. If he was able to legally download the songs from the iDisk, and there was no disclaimer on their use that had to be agreed with before downloading (basically, if Apple let you have them without any warnings), it was not your responsibility to determine the creators of the music, nor as them for permission to use it. Apple took the liability of distributing the music, and the liability would have rested on them to provide proper disclaimers and terms of use. So, I suggest you try to hold Apple accountable, to prove that you agreed with ANY terms of use before using the music.

    I've heard different accounts, but the most common one I've heard is that there was NO documentation accompanying the music, one article from the early days said something like "a readme would have been nice, apple". Maybe you can find people in the music industry that will back you up.

    I wish you luck.

    paul
     
  15. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

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    Apr 10, 2003
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    #15

    probably. but it depends on a) if they are going after lots of people and b) whether they are really committed to keeping anything related to fairplay and/or apple out of commercial adult films. ignorance of the law is a tough ploy because it can screw you as easily as help you...i would sound them out before you commit to anything, but get a lawyer first...
     
  16. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Ha ha haaa!
    #16
    Same thing with stock photography. Royalty-free stock photography doesn't mean it's free. At Comstock, for instance, you have to purchase the "royalty-free" photo, and even then the license states it's limited to being viewed by 10 users. Otherwise, you're required to buy a site license. In other words, nothing's free. Sorry...
     
  17. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #17
    Darn, I'll have to cancel that 8 seat home theater with 90" HiDef projector and surround sound system. But hey its only $0k, and comes pre-fab....
     
  18. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #18
    I believe the royalty free image that I got from Getty allowed me to limit the use of the image by others if I would pay the $.
     
  19. Les Kern macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #19
    Hurry up and sell everything, or put it in a blind trust. Hurry. I said HURRY!
     
  20. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #20
    Again, i reiterate, if you legally obtained the music (which you did, from your iDisk) and there was no accompanying documentation (terms of use), you are off the hook. It all hinges on whether or not there was such a file in the folder with them. I just don't know who burden of proof falls on in this case... i should think the plaintiff.

    i would avoid pleading ignorance. it rarely works. if push comes to shove, and it's accepted by the court that you did in fact break the terms, you MIGHT be able to get a judge to agree that consumers cannot be expected to read pages on pages of software agreements, and that consumers in fact do *not* read them... which is obviously true. But, this is certainly not sure-fire, it could reduce the award however...

    You could also try shifting liability (blaming) the studio/people you were editing for... again, tricky.

    Do you have a lawyer yet?

    paul
     
  21. Flowbee macrumors 68030

    Flowbee

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    #21
    How do I get a job in Apple's "Porn Screening" department? Are they seriously reviewing the thousands of porn tapes produced each year, or did someone at Apple just happen to notice the music while 'enjoying' the video at home?
     
  22. krimson macrumors 65816

    krimson

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Location:
    Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia
    #22
    sign up with prepaidlegal.com and use their included legal advice ($20/month no contract, 2nd largest law firm in CA) and when you're done, cancel the service.
     
  23. redAPPLE macrumors 68030

    redAPPLE

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Location:
    2 Much Infinite Loops
    #23
    what's wrong with porn? :mad:

    kidding aside. try settling the case. offer free porn. :(

    ok ok. kidding aside. i feel for you man. how can one think if one is hungry?
     
  24. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #24
    My question. How did Apple find that you were using this music? Do people at Apple sit around all day, watching porn, trying to find license violations? If so, where do I sign up :cool:

    Yeah, that is some kinda odd situation you're in. I hope you are able to settle without too many problems.
     
  25. PixelFactory macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago
    #25
    Royalty free does not mean unlimited useage. I just read my license agreement from Getty and one the the bullets reads as follows:

    You may not use images in a pornographic, libellous, defamatory, infringing or obscene manner.

    If Apple included an read me file with terms of this sort, you may be liable.
     

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