Help! Is this false advertisment?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Other.au, May 18, 2004.

  1. Other.au macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #1
    I recently signed on with an Australian internet service provider who stated that after 10 gigs you willl be capped at 64 KB/S. I understood this to be 64 kbytes/sec as that is what it is generally understood as on the net.

    As stated on their website:

    * Speeds may be slowed to 64 KBPS after 10GB. Service may not be used for unauthorised purposes as set out in the Acceptable Use Policy. Includes unlimited uploads. For more information on usage guidelines and the AUP please visit the Acceptable Use Policy.


    http://www.bigpond.com/internet-plans/broadband/cable/

    Is this false advertisement? They have slowed my speeds down to 64BITS/second. I would love to give them hell.

    ( Last month i managed them to refund me 4000 dollars - lol)
     
  2. PolarbearTed macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    #2
    No it's not a false advertisement. I've signed one with Bigpond and it's a term of the contract I believe.

    I have no idea about kilobits and kilobytes, I think someone else can help you with that.

    Incidentally, how did you manage to get that much money out of them??

    PolarbearTed
     
  3. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    #3
    network speeds are usually so many bits/sec. Think about the ethernet, its gigabit.
     
  4. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #4
    So the statement in question is in no way misleading?

    1. 64 bits/sec is very slow - especially for a cable account.
    2. In general internet surfing language 64kb/s is measures in kilobytes.

    Would it not as a result lead the consumer to believe that the service is in Bytes rather than bits?

    ------
    On a side note, telstra thought i was on a 1 gig a month plan. During this month i thought i was on a cable unlimited plan and downloaded 40 gigs.

    40 gigs at 15cents a meg = about 4000 dollars.

    I gave them hell and they finally refunded.
    Interestingly a similar thing happened 2 months before that and i was refunded 300 dollars.

    ------

    On a second side note - do u know of any method to uncap ure service? I heard removing a metal chip in ure telstra panel will allow you to regain normal speeds.
     
  5. KC9AIC macrumors 6502

    KC9AIC

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan or Longview, Texas
    #5
    It is standard procedure for capital B to mean bytes and lower case b to mean bits. Therefore, if there is a confusion, KB/S should be interpreted as kilobytes/second.

    Hope you get a refund.

    edit- but since they say 128 kb/s as your normal speed, it would be absurd for them to say "slowed" to 64 KB/s, which would be a significant improvement.

    BTW, my ISP limits me to 155KB/s, calling it 1.5 Mb/s.
     
  6. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #6
    This is great news. =)

    Is there any official reference between the different sizes in B's used? A source to refer to would be of great help - dont go too much outa ure way to help tho.

    Im gona give them hell. U have no idea. I will not have my service capped like this.
     
  7. KC9AIC macrumors 6502

    KC9AIC

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    #7
    I'm thinking that whatis.com will be an invaluable resource. I'm heading there now.
     
  8. KC9AIC macrumors 6502

    KC9AIC

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    #8
    Found it at http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci211721,00.html. Especially note the section that says "A byte is abbreviated with a "B". (A bit is abbreviated with a small "b".)" in the beginning of the 3rd paragraph. I'd say that your ISP won't argue with a definitive source.

    Good luck on your endeavors. Pleasure helping you out.

    edit: if you need references for whatis, this should help. Now if only BigPond advertised on Whatis, that would be the coup.
     
  9. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

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    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #9
    Brilliant detective work 99.

    I appreciate your help. Ill tell u what happens in a day or so when i give em a call.

    If anyone else has anything to contribute - that would be helpful.


    Gawd... im so excitied. I got em.
     
  10. KC9AIC macrumors 6502

    KC9AIC

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    #10
    The very least they can do is change it to lowercase letters on their site. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

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    Jan 20, 2004
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    Sydney Aus
    #11
    Btw - when discussin my internet capabilities before being capped, 128kb.s is only a reference is my UPLOAD speed rather than download. Im am capped at 1.5 mbytes/sec before the 10 gig limit.
     
  12. ExoticFish macrumors 6502a

    ExoticFish

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    The inner depths of madness, aka Kent, OH
    #12
    8 bits equals a byte. b is bit and B is byte. so 64Kb/s is only 8KB/s. but yeah they people who put together the ads more than likely don't have a clue what the difference is. but in general internet connection speeds are based on bits... but for some reason when you download something and you watch how fast it's going they'll show it too you in bytes. go figure.
     
  13. crenz macrumors 6502a

    crenz

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    Shanghai, China
    #13
    I think they have not made a effort to be very clear on their part, but the terms are normal. Network speeds are usually measured in bits/second, so I would have interpreted 64 KB/s as 64 Kilobits/second.
     
  14. ThomasW macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    #14
    I don't know if it's false advertisement, but it is certainly misleading. KB/s always means kilobytes/second, while kb/s is usually kilobits/second, but often also means kilobytes/second, when people just forgot the capital B or don't know that they have to write B instead of b if they mean bytes.

    To have a better differentiation, you usually use KB/s for kilobytes/second, but kbps or Kbps (with p instead of /) for kilobits per second. Bigpond uses some kind of unprofessional and misleading mixture (capital B, but p instead of /). KBPS does not mean Kilobytes/Second, because the four letters "kpbs" are reserved for kilobits per second and are never used for kilobytes/second, but it doesn't really mean kilobits per second either, because you never abbreviate bits with a capital B. I don't know which argument is stronger, so I don't know if it's really "false" advertisement, but in any case this is absolutely misleading and they should change the web page as soon as possible.
     
  15. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #15
    Just a word of warning. Probability are, if you use that much traffic, you are using P2P software to trade stuff that is generaly copyrighted. I might be wrong, and I hope I am and that you use all this bandwidth for legal stuff. BUT in case you want to start messing around with them, they can call the copyright agency in AU (I guess there is one) and they will monitor your file traffic. All of this is legal in Canada (so I guess AU too) if they have suspicions that you are doing something wrong. And you may get more trouble than what you asked for.

    But on the kbps, they are wrong and you can complain without any problem. They have to be consistant across all their documents / contract / adds and if they use different notation, you call call it misleading.
     
  16. saabmp3 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    #16
    Can they call them up and do this? Yes.

    Will they? No way in hell. It's so much extra work for an ISP to do that, they would just kick you off the network. The RIAA and whatever screwed up association down there are responsible for monitoring and catching copyright violations. The copyright holder is responsible for upholding it's copyright, not the local police.

    Anyways, 10 gigs isn't too much, I bet we push more around 60-300 a month on our cable modem at home (between 4 computer/engineering majors).

    BEN
     
  17. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #17
    Now that ive gained this leverage i need to find out how much i can get.

    Im either going to try and get them to lower the cost of the plan per month or get them to cap my modem at 64KBPS (upper case).

    How difficult is it for a service provider to treat u differently to everyone else?

    --------
    Secondly, i found this article and was wondering wether is had any validity.
    I think its a load of rubbish but a second opinion would be nice. For some reason i dont think it would apply to telstra.




    REMOVING YOUR CABLE INTERNET CAP



    ---< PREFACE >---
    Your cable company promises you about a fat 1.5 mbps, right? Well...where is it? It's right here in front of you, you just have to tap in to it. Your cable modem is actually capable of VERY high speeds. Note that what I'm about to show you is WITHOUT A DOUBT against your ISP's Terms of Service, so if you want my advice, DON'T DO IT. But if you're risky, I'm not responsible in the least....good luck, may the force be with you.


    ---< THE ENEMY >---
    Yes, the enemy is, as you guessed it, your ISP (Internet Service Provider). I had a long chat with my ISP tech support and I got some very interesting information. I've used a bunch of collective knowledge to come up with a fairly simple solution to a big problem. The one thing limiting your bandwidth is a small, grey circle that the Cable Co. likes to call a "Cap". This mo' fo' is the more immediate enemy, so let's take it out.


    ---< REMOVING THE CAP >---
    You're going to need a few things. Before you keep reading, go outside and locate the following things:

    1 - A metal something to pry stuff open with
    2 - A screw driver
    3 - An I-Hate-My-ISP attitude

    Ok, got it all? good. If the metal whatchadiggie that you found lying around isn't enough, you're gunna need a big hack saw or something...your bare hands are also an answer, of course.

    Now, run back outside for me and find your cable box. There are actually 2. 1 should be significantly smaller than the other one, but they are both klunky, ugly, gray, mounted on the side of your house, and have tubes running from them in to either you house or the ground. Your public-access box is the smaller one. Yep, this is all they give you. Go ahead and check this little guy out and unscrew the little plasic crap they put on it and check out what you've got there. Pretty lame, huh? You should see a pair of standard cables, and if you don't, you don't have cable internet, go home, dumbass.

    Now, the huge one that's right next to it, this is your obstical. Inside there is your little cap. Go ahead and check the box out. There should be some creepy, all-plastic locking mechinism on it that makes no logical sense at all (Along with a label that explains how you're not allowed in the box at all...yeh yeh, whatever). Take your little metal whatchamadoogie and cram it up in to the side/bottom of the box where you should be able to part it enough to get it inside. Pry that mother ****er apart. You should have to strain pretty hard for a few seconds before the flimsy lock gives. But there should be a huge *POP* and a bunch of plasic will fly out. That means you got it. If you can't do that, try ripping out the little circular lockie thingie at the bottom center. That should come out if you yank on it hard enough with something.

    Once inside, locate the little, silver round thing connected to about 2 wires. THAT, my friend, is your cap. This is all you hatred bottled up in a little, stupid metal piece of ****. You can yell at the little ****er if you want. Tell it how much you hate it and you want to rip it's ass out of there, but you have to be professional so you still have internet when your done ;)

    Make sure the ends of your cables aren't glued to it and just untwist them. Remove the filter carefully from the box, walk over to the street, and throw that dumbass piece of **** in to the traffic. You can cuss pretty loud at it as you throw it too...it'll add to the effect.

    If your cables are glued down to your cap, you're gunna have to pull some tricky moves and unscrew the box from the mount on the wall to get it out of there. You should be able to figure it out. Luckily I haven't run in to that, yet...

    The last step is pretty important. YOU HAVE TO CLEAN UP YOUR MESS! I'm sure by now that your cable setup looks like you took an axe to it, so just put it back together. MAKE SURE YOU POP THAT LITTLE ROUND LOCKIE THINGIE BACK IN. If the cable guy comes, he's gunna take a quick look to see if it's all in order. He wont get too close to it, just enough to tell if you've been ****ing with it. Oh, man, it would suck major ass if you got caught, so do a clean job!!!


    ---< ENJOY YOUR SPEEDS >---
    One of the last things that the tech support said after I asked him what would happen if the cap was removed was "you would have very fast speeds and it wouldn't be fair for everyone else". Damn...he was right..."
     
  18. PolarbearTed macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    #18
    I have to admire your boorish attempts to get your dollar value. But is it really worth arguing the semantics? I probably would have merely accepted my fate. Maybe I'm not assertive enough?

    Good luck in your quest.

    As for misrepresentation, it is a false statement of fact relied upon or it induces a person into a contract. So you may have cause for remedy under the Fair Trading Act, if it ever gets that far.

    PolarbearTed
     
  19. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #19
    Most companies will give a little to get rid of a caller's complaint. They won't readily change company policies, but they'll give YOU something. When I call companies, they often remove a service charge even if I'm just asking about it, not necessarily complaining, and even when it was something I really owed. I am unfailingly polite when talking to such people, which helps, but I am also not afraid to ask to talk to a supervisor when I didn't get a good answer to a question, and supervisors are often even more anxious to stay on your good side while getting you off the phone.
     
  20. IndyGopher macrumors 6502a

    IndyGopher

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    #20
    Before rushing to them with all sorts of dire threats, you really do need to get your terms straight. You do not have 1.5megabytes/sec service. A T3 connection, which goes for about $3,000 a month, is 4.5megaBITS per second. A T1 line, which goes for anywhere from $450 a month to $1,200 a month, is 1.5megaBITS per second. (Why would you pay that, when DSL and cable claim the same speeds? Couple reasons.. wit a T1 you actually GET it, and the latency is almost nil compared to DSL and Cable. It's also symetric, up and down)
    The point is you'll not be doing yourself any favors to go in there complaining about speed claims if you don't know what they mean.
     
  21. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #21
    I appreciate your help.

    My max speed before hitting the 10 gig limit was approximatly 1 meg a sec when downloading from multiple sources.

    Ill tell you the outcome in a day or so.
     
  22. Other.au thread starter macrumors member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney Aus
    #22
    Big News!!!

    I called them up after having sorted out my case.

    I firstly asked them to clarify what had been written on the site. She said it was in "bytes". It was at that moment that i knew i had got them.

    She said she would fix up the website and to my delight awarded me 2 free months - $120 - of free internet access after my careful reference to the free trading act.

    Lol - it was so exciting. Thanks again!
     
  23. KC9AIC macrumors 6502

    KC9AIC

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