Hey look, Obama's policies are working!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, May 3, 2013.

  1. macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Location:
    Illinois
    #1
    Imagine how much better things will be when the Congress gets off its ass and fixes the stupid sequester and the ACA is fully implemented!

    Are you feeling any optimism despite the petulent obstruction of the GOP, or do you still feel like we can't accomplish anything because of their unAmerican unwillingness to compromise on anything?

    (Hope that wasn't too partisan. I was trying very hard to be neutral).
     
  2. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #2
    Shares are at record highs in the UK too, and the UK government is completely useless.

    Personally I thank these guys for high stock prices.
     
  3. macrumors G3

    NT1440

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #3
    All I see when I see that the stock market is at its highest is the impending crash that will be much worse than 2008, especially considering we did nothing to fix the structural problems.
     
  4. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    #4
    a) The global economy is much stronger than in 2008.
    b) We have made a significant effort to fix the structural problems.
     
  5. NT1440, May 3, 2013
    Last edited: May 3, 2013

    macrumors G3

    NT1440

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    #5
    No, we doubled down on the repeal of glass -stegal and just handed out money until the banks said they were ok.

    We patched a broken damn without caring that the earth holding it in place is eroding faster because of those patches.

    What structural changes were made? Banks are bigger than they were. We didn't break up any failed institutions or jail anyone for the clear lies (Jamie Dimon lied directly to congress (it's ok, his buddy leading the hearing made sure none of these people were under oath (unprecedented) so it wasn't illegal) that have been and are still being uncovered.

    I'd bet money on it. The next big crash will be this decade, and unless it is met with reforms like in the new deal (it's own can of worms) it will be the end of this economic system (that is, the American corporate brand of capitalism).


    Edit, just realized you're from the UK, I'm not familiar with the response on your side of the pond but unfortunately it doesn't matter. The USA is the biggest domino by far (in terms of seeding risk throughout the global economy) and boy are we going to fall hard. That will set in place the failure of the rest of the system. Remember that the first bank to go down, igniting all the rest of the kindling, was less than 2% of the total "wealth" lost but it set the avalanche off.
     
  6. hulugu, May 3, 2013
    Last edited: May 3, 2013

    macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #6
    Between Michael Lewis and Matt Taibbi, I'm think you're right: the bankers aren't interested in reforms, they've created a structure of paper profits that hasn't resolved, and they're greedy enough to threaten the whole system again to make their bonuses.

    And, there's a structural failure from the rating's agencies like S&P that makes these failures much more likely.
     
  7. macrumors 65816

    senseless

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    #7
    Well, we DO have to pay those loans back eventually.
     
  8. macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

    Joined:
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    #8
    Details...
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Rio Rancho, NM
    #9
    His policies of pumping huge amounts of cash into criminal organizations has worked great! The banks and corporations have way more money than they did before the crash. Meanwhile 40 million people are on assistance just so they can eat, and the middle class is footing the bill so that everyone can be forced to purchase private health insurance. He's so AMAZING!:D
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    Sydde

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    #10
    What about the LIBOR thing? Has that in reality been fixed?
     
  11. macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Libor is just the tip of the iceberg. The entire financial system is rigged from within and controlled by a few large banks.

    Everything is Rigged

     
  12. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #12
    :eek:

    Noooooo!

    It can't be true!

    :rolleyes:
     
  13. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  14. rovex, May 4, 2013
    Last edited: May 4, 2013

    macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Why? Nobody gives a damn about the debt. Just more assurances to financial institutions that do care, the other 99% think about jobs, housing, healthcare.
     
  15. macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #15
    The NFP was a complete joke. Hours worked fell which lost the equivalent of 700,000 but its not reflected in the numbers. Birth/death model added 192,000 jobs. Economy needs to add over 200,000 per month to keep employment from shrinking. Most of the new jobs were in hospitality/leisure/temp, i.e. minimum wage. Major economies around the world are slowing and the stock markets are setting new highs on thin volumes while margin is at levels similar to 2007 and 2000 (and 1929!) and central banks are pumping in $160B per month. Its not going to end well.
     
  16. macrumors 65816

    senseless

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    #16
    That's what the Greeks said.
     
  17. macrumors 68000

    Sydde

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    #17
    Market indexes are like a speedometer: they have shown us that we can get this rig up to 160mph. I mean, what more do you need to know, that is a good thing, right?
     
  18. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    The Greek economy that is less efficient than China's, and probably most of South East Asia with the wages of central Europe.

    Of course they are going to be in trouble.
     
  19. macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Reality
    #19
    Jim Hightower once said that what we need is not a Dow Jones average, but a Doug Jones average: How is ol' Doug doing? Are his wages keeping up with inflation, or is his buying power backsliding? Are his benefits stable or are they being taken away from him? Are jobs still available in his field, or are they going overseas?

    I think we've been conditioned over the years to buy into that what's-good-for-business-is-automatically-good-for-the-country attitude. I'm glad the market still thinks it's a good thing when we're hiring people, but really, a lot of the stock market revival is still based on investments and "productivity" gains (i.e., doing with fewer employees, converting more to part time, etc.).
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    Sydde

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    #20
    Given that business effectively runs the country (cf. gun control legislation), you could see how "they" might want to foster that impression. And the media is a business, most Americans get their information from commercial sources.
     
  21. macrumors G3

    NT1440

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    #21
    You call it structural failure, I call it failure by design...aka corporate capitalism run amuck.
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    #22
    I see a big difference between banks and other corporations. Banks were protected by the Federal Reserve when they failed. No one protected the dotcoms in 2000.

    The ups and downs in the market have nothing to do with the president but with the monetary policy of the Fed.

    Obama doesn't deserve credit for the stock market boom just like Bush doesn't get credit for the housing boom.

    Bubbles eventually pop.
     
  23. macrumors 68000

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #23
    The Fed! The Fed! The Fed! Blah, blah, blah, you (and others) keep vaguely yammering on about the Evil Fed but have done little-to-nothing to convince anyone. But, just keep repeating it, sooner or later it will become fact.
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    Location:
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    #24
    Certainly there are bankers who believe that the lack of regulating agencies is a benefit, but like deer celebrating the end of the wolves, they haven't figured out that they've designed their own terrible end.


    The influence of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, combined with the corruption of the S&P and the SEC, cheap money from the Fed, not to mention the "exotic" structures created by the banks under the CDS is what caused the boom and bust. We have government fueling an engine designed by the banks to make mountains of short-term cash.

    Congress and the White House have been too afraid to strangle the banks because they've been convinced that doing so would damage the economy. In the short-term they were right, but the problem remains that the banks have never been forced to deal with their manipulations—people should have gone to Federal prison—and thus we're limping along.

    The Fed is an important part of this problem, especially under Greenspan, but we can't ignore that the banks have acted against their long-term interests.
     
  25. thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Illinois
    #25
    Is it just me, or has all the criticism about the Obama administration been that it has acted too much like a Republican administration in its pro-business activities?

    I find that mildly interesting.
     

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