hey lookie, I'm actually asking Mac questions!

Discussion in 'Mac Help/Tips' started by vniow, Nov 21, 2002.

  1. vniow macrumors G4

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    #1
    In the coming few days, I may join you in the ranks of Mac goodness, but I have a few questions first.

    The Mac that I may be getting is here and I was wondering.....

    Is runing Jag on it a good idea? It's only got a 300Mhz G3 but it's maxed out with 320 MB RAM, more than what I have on my XP box, so will Jag run OK since it's got all that RAM?

    And it's also got Photoshop 5 and Office 2001 on the disk. I couldn't care less about Office, but how is Photoshop 5? If I do indeed buy this, the most that I'm willing to spend on it (for now since this is an unexpected purchace) is the extra $129 for Jag, but only if it'll run OK, so no Photoshop upgrade for me. Is it worth it to keep OS9 just for that or am I better off installing the GIMP which I have much more experience in?

    Thanx from the top Mac-less poster.[​IMG]
     
  2. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #2
    I'd just leave it in OS9 for now - Photoshop 5 is great - if you move to OSX.2 you'll have to run it in classic mode anyway. So it won't be as fast, that or you'd have to get an upgrade for Photoshop.

    Good luck and welcome, maybe, to MacDom....

    D
     
  3. Groovsonic macrumors regular

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    #3
    I dont think so...

    My thought (and I am no mac expert) is that it would run really slowly. You probably are better off sticking with os 9. Jag is great, but OS 9 isn't bad either.

    Just a thought!
     
  4. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #4
    Hmmm...I've seen Jag run fine on a Beige G3 (with a 500MHz G4 upgrade, but really that's not much better than a 500 MHz G3). So I would say Jag would probably run fine on a 300 MHz G3, though there will be some slight sluggishness to the interface. The Beige G3 had an ATI Rage card with 16MB RAM, but I'm not sure how much benefit it got from it anway, since it wasn't Quartz Extreme enabled or anything. Also, the Beige G3 had 768MB RAM, but that's way more than needed to run OS X, and 320MB should definitely be enough.

    In terms of apps, if Gimp works for you than you probably don't need to invest money and time into learning a Photoshop version that is already years out of date...

    That being said, the biggest problem I see with this laptop is the 6GB hard drive. Installing OSX will take up about 2GB of that, and in this day and age the other 4GB will fill up in a hurry...
     
  5. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #5
    Re: I dont think so...

    Yeah, OS 9 definitely isn't bad, but it will crash a lot more than OS X, and you'll probably find yourself longing for the iApps...
     
  6. vniow thread starter macrumors G4

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    #6
    Thanx


    I've had the GIMP on my PC for awhile and I'm getting pretty good at it but how out-of-date is Photoshop 5 compared to the latest version of the GIMP? (v1.2 which in Linux terms can mean anything)
    I've heard many times on here that Jag likes RAM more than it likes CPU speed so I think I'd be alright with it even if it was a little sluggish.

    Since it's only got a 6 GB HDD, do I have enough room to dual boot OS9 and Jag if needed?
     
  7. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #7
    Re: Thanx

    I haven't used GIMP and I haven't used a Photoshop version earlier than 6.0, but, yeah, I'm sure Photoshop 5 has a lot more features and is easier to use than GIMP.

    In terms of dual booting, 6GB is definitely more than enough space (I would say about 3 to 3.5 GB total for both OSes?), but again that's that much less space that you have for your other stuff. Also, I think you'll have to erase your hard drive to install OSX, so make sure to save all the software first (esp. Photoshop 5 and Office 2001 which you don't have discs for) to a Zip disk or something. Fortunately, on Macs you don't have to worry about registry entries or anything, so I believe you'll be fine just copying the programs back and forth. Don't hold me to that, though...
     
  8. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #8
    Re: Thanx

    6 gig is going to give you little room for much else besides the OSs and some apps.

    Photoshop 5 will kick GIMP's butt. It is a great app and there are only somewhat superficial diffierences between 5 and 7, that and a few more features. You can do almost everything thing 5 with layers that you can do in 7 - only 7 has many filters built in.

    D
     
  9. lmalave macrumors 68000

    lmalave

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    #9
    Also, you can try to match up the Blueberry iBook's specs to other machines on the xbench thread:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14422

    I think I saw some 400MHz and 500MHz G3s listed with xbench scores of 40+, whereas my friend's souped-up Beige G3 only scored a 39. But like I said, my friend's Beige G3 ran Jag quite well, so I think a 300MHz G3 Blueberry iBook with 320MB RAM and an ATI Rage Mobility AGP 2x should be fine :)

    For more specs on the Blueberry iBook check here:

    http://www.lowendmac.com/pb2/ibook.shtml
     
  10. vniow thread starter macrumors G4

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    #10
    how 'bout...

    ....a hard drive upgrade?

    My dad drives by Fry's on his way to and from work so he ususlly picks up most of my computer stuff for me and I found a 20 gig 5400 IBM Travelstar at their site.
    Is it possible (or recommended) to upgrade the drive myself?
    I've had a fair amount of experience with computers so I don't think it would be too out of my league but I really don't know how difficult it may be.
    I can probably squeeze out the extra $109 for that, it looks like a worthwile investment.

    Oh and I checked out some similar systems in that xBench thread you linked too. Apple hardware seems to stand the test of time pretty well.[​IMG][​IMG]



    Add: I just found a site that describes in great detail how to upgrade an iBook drive.
    Looks like some trouble.

    But after reading thoroughly through it, I think I can manage. I've done some work with small and fragile stuff before and this looks like just that.

    Has anybody else upgraded their iBook drive?
     
  11. crassusad44 macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    My 2 ¢

    Shop around and see if can find a better iBook in the same price range. I've seen white iBooks as low as $5-600 (first generation). The Blueberry iBook has some limitations you should know of. The most important is the sceen. 800*600 is not much to brag about when using OS X. Also, 6 GB won't get you far, and it's not too easy to switch disks.

    Photoshop 5.0 is a solid app, but 5.5 is much better (better color correction, and much better features). 6.0 would be even better (you won't miss the new features in 7.0 if you have 6.0 and don't use OS X).

    I've heard of people with calmshell iBooks, who've got 512 MB RAM chips to work, although I can not guarante it will. 320 MB RAM is enough for OS 9, but if you want to use OS X, you'd probably want more, esp. with a G3.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2073468178
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072972862
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2073736031
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072712081
     
  12. whocares macrumors 65816

    whocares

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    #12
  13. vniow thread starter macrumors G4

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    #13
    I actually checked out eBay before I considered this (even completed items) and the ones that were bought for less than $550 (my self-imposed limit) weren't too much of a better deal in my opinon.
    A few of them had Photoshop, but none I saw had as much RAM.
    The total price if I were to upgrade the HDD and Jag would be:
    iBook: $365
    IBM 20GB Travelstar: $120 (assuming tax)
    Copy of Jag: $70 (I'm paying for half)
    Total: $555 (yeah yeah, 5 bucks over, I can deal)
    I looked on eBay extensively and I didn't find any iBooks with 320 MB RAM, 20GB 5400rpm HDD, Jag and Photoshop for less than $555.

    I really don't care too much about power or speed in this case. (but I think I'll fill up 6 gigs really quick)
    This is an unexpected purchace, I had intended to save my money, but this looks like a good investment if I'm going to move out (my parents for some strange reason agree) and don't want to lug arould a big PC.
    A clamshell iBook should be all I need for now. Don't need firewire, PC card slots or a big screen. I've had various 15" monitors for years and was satisfied and I've used a similar Blueberry iBook at school from time to time so I have at least some experience with it.

    Thanx for all your replies.[​IMG]
     
  14. crassusad44 macrumors 6502a

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    #14


    Not too bad a deal. You will enjoy the 14 GB extra.

    Bon Mac-voyage! :)
     
  15. cubist macrumors 68020

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    Muncie, Indiana
    #15
    Photoshop 5 does not work in Jaguar.

    I have 5.5, and it doesn't work in Jaguar.

    I tried Gimp, but it seemed very complex to use compared to Photoshop. If you like Gimp better, though, I think you can get Gimp for Mac OS X from the Fink project. Let us know how it works for you.
     
  16. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #16
    Ah, this is an interesting bit of news - sounds like there might be a story here....and don't give me crap for wanting to know, if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't be asking ;)

    But the iBook and new drive look to be a good deal - have fun with it and I hope to see better imagery from you once you get a real image editing app! :D

    D
     
  17. bidge macrumors 6502

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    New Zealand
    #17
    Just one last comment I ran Jag on one of those particualar iBooks with maxed out ram, didn't put OS 9 on it, it ran pretty sweet. It could run photoshop 7, pretty slowly but it was quite useable.

    I would say get it. iPhoto ran reasonably smoothly.

    email/ichat me rbijl@mac.com if you have any more questions on what stuff ran like.
     
  18. Gus macrumors 65816

    Gus

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    #18
    That iBook also only has 256k of cache, which will make it slower than the Powerbook G3s that were xbenched on the other thread. The PB G3 400/500 has 1 MB L2 cache, and it makes a big difference. Other than that, I would definitely say the biggest drawback is the screen resolution like someone else already said. It's a nice laptop, but don't expect it to scream.

    Gus
     
  19. Computer_Phreak macrumors 6502

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    #19
    why not run Linux on it? That way it would be reasonably fast and you could use the GIMP
     
  20. kiwi_the_iwik macrumors 65816

    kiwi_the_iwik

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    #20
    Hey ed - are you a student?

    If so, hang on a sec...

    I know you're not in the UK, but Apple UK have launched a programme to give students access to new iBooks and TiBooks as a rent-to-buy option, with interest-free credit for 3 YEARS! (see: MacUser magazine, 1 Nov. '02 page 9)

    It also includes an AppleCare Warranty...

    Like I said - I think this is currently only an Apple UK initiative, called iStudent (catchy, eh?). However, Apple US could be implementing a similar deal soon.

    Check it out!
     
  21. vniow thread starter macrumors G4

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    #21

    Not anymore.
    I graduated last year.

    Thanx for the offer though, I'm sure to look out for it in the U.S.
     
  22. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    #22
    I would not buy a 300MHz iBook with any intention of running OSX you will be much happier just sticking with OS9. Compared to you machine running XP the iBook will be almost useless running OSX. Though OS9 will run very fast.

    Why do you have a need for X anyway? It is your first Mac after all.
     
  23. JupiterZen macrumors regular

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    #23
    Re: hey lookie, I'm actually asking Mac questions!

    Well congratulations ... (if you buy it that is ;) )

    6 Gigs is indeed a bit small, so if you want to use OS 9 and OS X together it would be a good idea to upgrade the harddisk.

    I think 10.2 will run just fine. I had it running on a powerbook G3 400Mhz with 384MB RAM and that was working just fine. So dual boot is a good option.

    And about Photoshop and The GIMP. Like Dukestreet said. Photoshop will kick the GIMP's ass ... ALWAYS !!! There is nothing like Photoshop out there and version 5 is definately not to old. There are only small differences to version 6 and up.

    I would say: Go for it !!! ;) ;) :D :cool:
     
  24. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    #24
    Re: Re: hey lookie, I'm actually asking Mac questions!

    Actually in my personal oppinion Photoshop 5 was the best. 6 was just more complicated and 7 is just more so.

    Just fine is a relative term. My B/W G3 400 with Radeon and Quartz enabled runs it just fine but that doesn't mean that the load times aren't still insanely long and system elements are jerky.
     
  25. Fipher macrumors newbie

    #25
    I'd say that iw will run pretty, well. I have Jag on my 400 mhz iMac with 380 MB oif ram qand it runs great, but you do have a slower prossesor and a bit less memory so it will but a bit more slugish, if you have the money then get a new computer, if not then I guess you could upgrade to Jag. I'm not shure how well Photoshop 5 will run though, it might be pretty slow, but if PS 5 isn't too incrdibly important to you, like if it's not part of you job or anything, then you should upgrade to Jag.

    I suggjes talking to a genius at the genius bar in an Apple store befor you make your final disition, he/she will know best.
     

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