Honda civic hybrid 2005

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jdm_rsx, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. Jdm_rsx macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    #1
    anyone know anything about them?

    actualy gas mileage is that great?

    how r they in person?

    im lookin to buy one probably 6 months from now or so...

    tryin to get as much opinion as i can...
     
  2. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #2
    A hybrid car is only going to be worth it if you were planning on getting the top of the line vehicle anyway. If the hybrid wasn't there, would you get the top of the line? if not, you'll be spending thousands extra to save gas, and which case it just doesn't make sense from a financial point of view. Take those thousands, put them in a high yield Cd or mutual fund, and you'd probably "save" more money. You could also get a diesel vehicle (if you live in a non california emussions state) from VW that gets better mileage than any hybrid out there (except maybe the insight, but that's a totally impractical vehicle)

    My brother has a civic hybrid and they love it. I believe they get in the high 30 to low 40 mpg. Nice, but my old saturn can get in the mid 30s mpg, so how much better is it. its a nice car, but its still a civic, you know. Is a civic, any civic, worth $20k I'd say no, but that's just me.

    My personal belief is that hybrids are the best marketing tool the industry has come up with. All the manufacturers are making them for one reason and one reason only: because people will pay an irrational premium for them. When they put a highbrid on a low end model, let me know. There's a reason they only put them on the top of the line models.
     
  3. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    Jul 4, 2004
    #3
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #4
    If you buy in the next few days you can claim a $1,500 federal tax rebate on your '04 tax return. Next year the rebate drops to $1,000.
     
  5. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #5
    Note that people also buy hybrid because its the 'good thing' to do in a world so poluted. Its a small contribution to the survival of earth but I guess by your speach that you prefer to live rich in a poluted world...

    People cant think ahead more than 5 years away. This is ridiculous how the earth is getting abused, yet we still hurt it even more.

    Biggest world poluter are USA, China, Russia and I am not so proud to say Canada. Even here where we are supposed to be greener than south of the border, I am surprise by the stupidity of my neigbours. People cant blame ignorance, polution is talked daily on tv and cant say its because there are no solution, there are now hybrid cars.

    As someone pointed out in the serious hybrid car thread, hybrid cars will only take off once they have better performance than 'normal' cars. Until then, idiots will continue to buy poluting cars...
     
  6. jeremy.king macrumors 603

    jeremy.king

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    #6

    Is mileage your only concern or are you in the same utopian boat as Mantat?

    I really enjoy my TDI and the mileage is wonderful (43-48 mpg). Not sure of the availability in Hawaii, but I would recommend it to anyone who wants to enjoy their "extreme" commuting. Although I tend to be on the low end of said group.
     
  7. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    Madison, Alabama
    #7
    Good grief (he exclaimed at the $30k price tag). I'd been hoping that Honda would come out with a hybrid Accord one of these days, but I hope they'll offer that option in some of the lower-rung Accord models. I don't really need the V-6 and some of the other luxury features, and the MPG for the Accord Hybrid doesn't seem that much better than our 1999 Accord (the 4-cylinder version).

    Nevertheless, thanks for the heads-up. I had missed this announcement.
     
  8. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #8
    Its not about performance, its about price. Hybrids aren't necessarily better for the environment anyway. if they don't get gas mileage that is a lot better, there's no gain. Smaller engines would be the way to make the environment cleaner. They have inherently better mileage. If you buy a hybrid to save the world, you're deluding yourself. If you buy it to save gas, you're deluding yourself. They are fashion statements, political statements and marketing tools, no more no less. In the future they may have more to offer, but I just don't see any practicality in them at this time.
     
  9. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #9
    JDM,

    I have seen a few of the Civic Hybrids around, and they look identical to their regular cousins - which is not too bad imo.

    I would suggest taking the time to read through this thread, however, to decide if a hybrid might be right for you:
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=101254

    Since I notice you live in Hawaii, I am curious what your driving habits might be, because depending on the type of hybrid technology you receive, the benefits (ie mileage) vary wildly depending on whether you do mostly city driving (stop and go) or highway cruising. There are other valid points relating to potential costs of hybrids made in the thread also, although it is not necessarily comprehensive.

    Personally, I would choose a VW TDI in your shoes...excellent mileage, and quite good-looking. Build-quality seems to be improving, but mostly seems to be little things that break, being merely annoying.

    You might also look at a mini. They get pretty good gas mileage for a regular car, are very cool looking and maneuverable. They also have the highest resale value of any car if you change your mind a little down the road...

    good luck.
     
  10. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #10
    Sorry but you are showing a lot of ignorance here. Hybrid car can make you save money, get great MPG and save the planete. How? Well, if you live in a city and almost never have to ride over 30km/h you will never start the fuel engine. When you are stalled in trafic, you will save gas too. Everytime you are in your car, that the engine is working and you arent moving, you are also saving gas... Please, prove me wrong. Tell me how I am deluding myself.

    Of course there are still a long way to run before the hybrid / all electric car can be considered a perfect replacement for fuel car but we are getting there and in city transport they pay for themselves.

    Thinking that environnement concern are solved by getting higher MPG is flabulation. If the emission pollute more, there is no gain.
     
  11. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #11
    i've heard, though can't remember where, that the gas milage claimed by hybrids are somewhat inflated. i heard that EPA milages aren't really based on road tests but rather, on the exhaust analysis. since hybrids tend to have less exhaust, by applying conventional formula, the milage gets inflated. i could be totally wrong, but there are reports out there that hybrids do not come near their claimed milages...

    if you want to save money on gas, get a diesel like kingjr3 said. i have a golf TDI. i've never gotten less than 38 mpg on a full tank of gas - and that's based on daily commute of 5 miles each way in cold michigan winter. during all other time of the year, i easily average 42-45 mpg on commutes. if i get on the highway, i can top 50 mpg. TDI engine costs a bit more, but i imagine two years of driving and you'll make up for that.

    if you were serious about environment, i think the best option is to find a way to use public transportation. i agree to a degree that hybrid has, right now, at least, quite a bit of political statement factor in it...
     
  12. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #12
    electric car isn't "clean" either - electricity had to be generated somehow. also, the gas engine has to run to some degree - otherwise, the battery will run out.

    if you live in a city, use the public transportation.

    by the way, it's another peeve of mine... this planet needs no saving. civilization as we know it may need saving, but not the planet itself. we can nuke ourselves to death and the planet itself will survive just fine without us.
     
  13. jeremy.king macrumors 603

    jeremy.king

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    #13
    04 Golf TDI here too. Whats your tdiclub handle/nickname? Mine is the same.
     
  14. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #14
    ha ha, i didn't know such a place existed... mine's a '01.
    (though i don't drive much... 3+ years and i have a little over 25,000 miles on it... when i move to seattle, that'll put 3,000 miles on it...)
     
  15. jeremy.king macrumors 603

    jeremy.king

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    #15
    http://www.tdiclub.com - great for ANY tdi owner, especially if you require service as many of those members will fix your car for the cost in parts. Really. Watched it happen at the last GTG I attended.

    Me on the other hand - bought the car Aug 2, 2004. Already have 14,500 miles. Definitely enjoying the 700 miles tanks :D
     
  16. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    Madison, Alabama
    #16
    I agree that (based on what I've seen) the current crop of hybrids aren't that much better than non-hybrids, in terms of saving gas, the environment, the world, etc. and they're more of a "fashion statement" at this point. But I might consider buying one anyways in order to encourage Honda (and other automakers) to continue developing hybrid engine technologies. After all, if the Accord Hybrid were to (hypothetically) not sell very well, they (Honda) wouldn't have much motivation to put more R&D into it, would they?

    It was worth reading through the posts in this thread just to read this gem. "Flabulation" is my new favorite made-up word.
     
  17. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #17
    Please, stop arguing about this, you are just showing a lack of hybrid car education! First of all, an hybrd car can roll without ever starting the engine. Much of the power needed to move the car is taken back when the brakes are used and it recharges the batteries.

    I live in Québec, here we have 'clean' energy. Everything (99%) is produced from hydro-electricity dam so its technicaly clean and renewable. Of course we could argue about the climatic changes and ecological destruction of these huge dams. But I have to agree that if the electricity is mainely produced by coal/nuclear powerplants, it just move the problem elsewhere.

    As for saving the earth, its a humanization of an unliving object. Its totaly right and correct to treat it as a living thing.
     
  18. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #18
    Oh come on. how am I showing ignorance. The hybrid civic costs thousands more than a regular civic. You will use the gas engine, caus ethe battery power isn't infinite and needs to be recharged. The city mileage isn't infinite just because its a hybrid. You will never get the mileage the manufacturers claim, you will not save money, and the mileage isn't so impressive that its going to make a huge difference (and in many cases, ther are more fuel efficient cars available that use regular engines)

    Also, you know what hybrids do, they help the manufacturers meet cafe standards, and subsidize the higher poluting vehicles. Maybe not so true with toyota and honda, but definitely a concern overall. Don't believe me. Then tell me why subaru just reclassified the outback as a truck, or the fact that the PT cruiser and other car based tall wagons are classified as trucks. its specifically so they can circumvent the Cafe standards and put higher polluting vehicles on the road without repurcussions. Toyota is coming out with hybrid SUV's, and you can bet it will help their fleet mileage, while suckering people into the top of the line, while making the regular engines less important to clean up.

    Its not so simple as "its a hybrid so I save gas and that saves the planet". if you've bought into that, you are exactly what the manufacturers want. They could make more fuel fuel efficient regular engines, they could just produce smaller engines that get the same mileage as the current hybrids (they did in the past, old toyota carollas could get around 40 mpg, my silly saturn used to get 38 when I bought it, about the same as a civic highbrid, and it costs 9 grand less than the civic, and it works out even better when you take insurance costs and financing costs into consideration). If you want to save the planet, get a bike and take the bus. A hybrid won't do much good.

    Hybrids and other alternative technologies have a LONG way to go before actually being practical in terms of saving money, gas or the planet. They just aren't that impressive and cost way too much (while suckering you into buying the top of the line when a base model would do you fine). I'll take the 5000 bucks I'll save getting a lower model and put it in the bank. We'll see who comes out ahead in 5 years when you take into account not just the gas, but the higher insurance premiums you'll pay because your car is worth more. What's more, I'll keep my car for longer than most too, meaning I'll pay way lower insurance rates, while not contributing to the environmental problems caused by merely purchasing a new car and all its new plastic and metal.

    So you see, its not as simple as you portray. And calling me ignorant just shows your bias. I'm willing to listen to the arguments that contradict my point of view on the subject, but when you revert to an attack on me before you attack my position, it tells more about you than me.
     
  19. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #19
    I know someone who owns a Civic Hybrid, and their results are at least 45mpg, with everything on and passengers. For single commuting they are getting anywhere from 49 to 55.

    I rented a Prius on an expedition to Arizona earlier this year, travelling slightly above the speed limit I averaged 56 mpg. That was with everything running.

    Diesel technology is an alernative to Hybrid technology, but how are the prices?

    A Civic Hybrid is about $20,000 and comes with tax incentives. Being a SULEV vehicle, it's drive train parts are warrantied to 150,000 miles. Does the diesel match that?
     
  20. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #20
    obviously, you are fairly knowledgeable. i will respect that, but no need to get snobby about it.

    a hybrid car cannot roll "without ever starting the engine." the battery will run out at some point, unless you supply energy to it externally. braking cannot physically provide enough energy to keep the battery charged.

    also, i will add that the large battery in the hybrid is not without its share of environmental consequences.
     
  21. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #21
    there are some advantages to diesel, at least to me personally...

    1) my diesel engine added about $1,500 to the cost of the car. i do not know how much hybrid adds to the cost, but given the need for a fairly complicated battery, i'm guessing more?
    2) diesel engines require less oil changes than regular engines.
    3) personally, tax incentives do not matter because i don't itemize.
    4) diesel has more torque, which is a concern for some, i imagine.

    the stink about diesel engine has been noise and pollution. newer engines are noisier than regular gas engines but are a lot better than before. also, as far as pollution goes, i think introduction of biodiesel will definitely help the cause.

    when i was buying a car, i wanted the best milage car as possible. the only hybrid available at the time was honda insight, which was a 2-door semi-sports car. i wanted a 4-door car, preferably a hatch, so TDI golf was a no brainer for me. if the civic hybrid had been out at the time, it would have gotten a strong consideration...
     
  22. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #22
    The batteries used in the Hybrid are simple D Cells from what I have read, and probably won't need to be replaced. Hybrids are only sold as the top of the line model and come with everything you can imagine included. See my link above.

    Hondas in general have longer intervals inbetween required oil changes. It's 7500 miles for my current Acura.

    Diesels are torquey, but can never hope to match the torque of an electric engine. Hybrids are going to come out in many variations, refer to the link above again. The new Accord is a mild hybrid, it improves both mileage and performance and it is the best performing Accord in the lineup now, while having the fuel efficiency of a Civic.
     
  23. jeffy.dee-lux macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Location:
    montreal
    #23
    whoa! haha, if its torque you want... lol, i'm always bringing this up. Electric Motors have MAD torque! The toyota prius puts out 295 lb-ft from 0-1200rpm. That's more peak torque than a ford expedition (actually i think that comparison will no longer be valid with that SUV getting a new engine this year, whatever, you get the point) and it is immediately available, right off the line. Sure the peak power for the electric motor (the product of torque times engine speed) only works out to about 85hp cause the torque peters out at higher rpms, but that's when the gas engine takes over, hence one of the beauties of hybrid drive trains. If you compare the power bands of electric motors and gas engines, you'll see they compliment eachother very nicely.


    Mantat, they're quite right about the gas tank needing to be tapped at some point. If we were able to just charge up the battery once, turn that energy into kinetic energy and then get it all back again when we use the brakes, that would solve a lot of problems in our society. All the energy that a hybrid uses comes from the gas, a hybrid just makes better use of it. Nevertheless, that energy is lost in many ways, and the gas tank still dries up eventually.

    Anybody saying that small engines just make more sense than a hybrid doesn't really get it. Sure the current examples don't seem to pay off, they're still expensive and the gains in fuel efficiency don't blow the doors off. Keep in mind, for one thing, that this technology is about 5 years old. Give it some time.
    But just think about the concept of a hybrid. All it really means is that its a gas engine accompanied by an electric motor and battery pack. With this set up, for one thing, the engine can automatically shut off when its not needed. So no more idling, makes really great sense no? And second, instead of losing all your kinetic energy as heat in the brakes when you come to a stop sign (happens pretty often eh?), you can recapture this energy and use it again when you come off the stop. That makes sense too, wouldn't you say?

    You can apply this concept to anything really, make a tiny little efficient engine even more efficient by having it shut off when not needed and recapturing the braking energy. Same with a diesel. In fact i just heard today that ford is preparing a concept that uses a hybrid diesel PZEV engine, but the link was broken, apparently ford got angry at the leak or something. We should find out about that at NAIAS in january.

    Check out this thread from last week about hybrids:
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=101254

    lol "can destroy humanity but you can't destroy the planet" -- Ian Malcom, Jurassic Park
     
  24. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #24
    um, i was making a comparison to "regular" cars...

    electric motor will not provide much torque at higher rpm, as stated, and the gas engine would take over, i guess... that is a nice idea. something i didn't know. but to say electric has more torque at 1200 rpm is not really useful, is it?

    please don't get flame-y over this. i don't think hybrid is a waste. i'm just pointing out what i know. there's no need to make condenscending posts or laugh at others in order to prove your point.

    VW recommends the oil be changed every 10,000 miles (or once a year) for my diesel, by the way.
     
  25. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #25
    Ah.. typing from work make me say silly things!

    Yes, I know that you cant live for ever on batery but they still have a good life. But the most interesting thing when I said that most people wouldnt even have to use fuel is that here (Montréal), and I dont know hwo much it could be translated to other cities, a lot of people drive for less than 20km per day. This means around 10km per trip which is way withing the range of the battery.

    Just for kick, I did a mesurement of the distance from my home to my workplace: 16km. During rush hours, its a 45mins drive. Top speed is around 70km/h for about 1min then it will drop to around 40km/h for about 5mins then drop bellow 20 for the rest of the trip. I can clearly see how people in my situation would benefit from an electric car sicne so much of the transportation is done at low speed. I am not even livin in the city, for people in town, it would about about the same amount of time but without ever driving over 30km/h.

    Dont take this personal, I didnt state that you were ignorant, just ignorant about hybrid car and your line about torque power clearly pointed that out. For myself, I know almost nothing about car and all I know is about hybrid/electric cars...

    Creating more fuel efficient cars isnt the solution, fuel reserve are dropping fast while demand is increasing every months. One day there wont be enough fuel so no matter how efficient your engine is, it will have nothing to feed upon. In a recent conference analyst pointed 2040-2045 as the end of all known fuel reserve.Fuel will be over priced way before that! That is why its important to invest right now in these kind of technology. And I personnaly put my money where my mount is, I bought for 10% of my income in shares of green company (especialy electricity production).

    Diesel engines have their merit, they are super resistant and will never let you down, unless you happen to live in Canada where it will freze for half of winter... I was considering buying a Smart (look at its fuel efficiency ;-) ) but the price tag is a bit too high 19k$can and I am scared of all these frozen diesel engines stories, I dont want to be late for work!

    Finaly, investing the 5000$ in stock right now is a very bad idea, Unless you pin point some very undervalued company you will lose money in the next year. So I would gladdely take you bet, even more so since the price of fuel here is at around 0,92$can / liter which is ALOT compared to you guys!
     

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