Hope is on the way...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Chip NoVaMac, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #1
    After four years of despair and heartache, hope is o the way. It is the name of Kerry and Edward's. Maybe no longer the congressional leaders will have better healthcare than the rest of us. Maybe now those that grew fat off the sweat of the American worker will pay the price for their fatteness. Maybe now our vets well get the care their deserve. So will our seniors that provided so much so far in obtaining the American dream.

    Sure it is the battle of the rich guys. But at least two came from humble beginnings. Not living off their Daddies connections, ans trying to repay them now,

    Hope is on the way. Unlike the promise of of a unified country. A country of compassion. After fours years of despair, hope is on the way. And their names are not Bush and Cheney.
     
  2. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #2
    A little fired up by Edwards' speech, are we?
     
  3. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

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    #3
    Edwards' speech was good, but it could have been better. It got good toward the end, from the struggling mother at her kitchen table onward.

    I wish he'd built up hope is on the way and ended it on that. It would have left THAT as the resounding message of the speech, and that would have been a strong point on which to end.
     
  4. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #4
    Whether it is "what do we have to fear, but fear itself", or even "I have a dream"; there are few words that mean something to many. For me 2004 will be "Hope is on the way". Better than the compassion that never should its head under Boozer Bush and Cheating Cheney.

    Bush in a month from now can stand there and say that God spoke to him, and I would believe that the Devil is with him. He has lied to get in to office, and will lie to stay in office. To borrow from his father, am i better off today than four years ago? Hell no.

    My lover and I have no chance in sharing everything that most other Americans can share in. Companies are getting my tax dollars to send jobs overseas. The troops that Bush sent in on lies, are ill equipped to do the job. Not to mention he committed treason in getting us there in the first place. the only compassion I see is for illegals, and the corporations that exploit them.

    Hope is on the way, Bush is back in Texas in 2005!
     
  5. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #5
    hope's on the way...

    unless you're a gay person who wants to be married (with fully equal rights to heterosexuals).

    or if you're one of the unlucky ones that wouldn't be covered by the kerry healthcare plan

    or if you can't live on $7/hour as a 'living wage'


    but kerry/edwards will be a nice change from chimp/grandpa

    :)
     
  6. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #6
    Amen,. As a Gay male, I have a better chance with Kerry for a civil union, than under Herr Bush and his Staff.

    We will see who will not be covered under Kerry's plan for healthcare. It should be better than the handout that Bush and the Republicans gave to the drug companies under MediCare Reform.

    Maybe we will see the government crack down on illegals, so that wages can rise so that citizens and legal aliens can earn a decent wage.

    Lets not forget that it will not happen with Kerry coming into office alone. We need to send every politician packing that created the mess we are in, packing for home...
     
  7. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #7
    Edwards speech was okay, but there was too much cock-talk in defense of the Democrats' "toughness". Half of it was about posturing for the military and the Republicans. How about we don't let the Republicans define the debate? What happened to "strength and wisdom are not opposing values"?

    Now Sharpton's speech was awesome. He didn't give an inch. Let's see the party leadership call the Republicans out, instead of leaving it to the supporting cast. The Dems keep letting the Republicans portray their strengths as weaknesses.
     
  8. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

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    #8
    sorry, the base doesn't count. we need the swing to win. the base isn't going to go to bush just cuz they ignore 'em. they needs to make sure the ticket looks good to the undecided voters.
     
  9. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #9
    My comments were not just about the speech tonite. Edwards reached me with his "hope" message. To me that s the theme for 2004. Hope has been lacking for far too many Americans. We bought the false prophets promises four years ago. No compassion, Now is the time for hope.
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    At the very least, you won't see an administration chomping at the bit to rewrite the Constitution of the United States of America to specifically deny you any rights.
     
  11. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #11
    Thank you, I see no compassion in that.

    Also with the speech tonite, Edwards spoke of those that "work" towards the American goal. As a Democrat I do not support handouts, in a pure and simple way. There are those that may need help. And in my mind they should be helped.

    Edwards may have made his money as an attorney. But he worked hard for it. He started from the ground up. Right or wrong. He will have to answer to his God for his actions. I would rather have someone that earned their money the hard way than having it handed to them by relationships.
     
  12. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #12
    Count me as another who wasn't too impressed by Edwards' speech. He's got more kitchen tables than Ikea.
     
  13. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #13
    why are you ready to settle for "civil unions" when there are sooo many rights not inherent to them, that are a part of "marriage"....?

    yeah, kerry's plan will have plenty of handouts to drug companies. but probably a bit less than bush.

    i think the gov't needs to crack down on corporate crime, that should also help reduce money lost to corruption, which could be going to pay workers a decent wage

    if we do what you suggest in your last paragraph, i think we'd have about 4 incumbent elected officials. ;)
     
  14. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #14
    har-dee-har-har...;)

    i liked the speech a lot. was it a home run? nope. but it certainly proved he can hit the ball well. give the guy a chance to get up to speed...theres no need to burn out before the debates.
     
  15. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #15
    I admire your dedication to political reform, jello.

    I still think the proper way to go about it is the way Moore (also a 2000 Nader supporter) detailed in his book Stupid White Men: grassroots on up.

    I think today the most important thing is to give the most progressive candidate who's got a shot into office as much a chance as we can, and down the road look to build up a more progressive base of politicians. Eventually you'll end up changing the face of politics, but remember you can only go so far with it, because middle America will always hold you to middle politics.

    Some call it settling for the lesser of two evils and refuse to do participate.

    I call it compromise, the most fundamental political strategy.

    Also, in addition to cracking down on corporate crime, I think making US companies that relocate offshore to avoid paying taxes... well, making them pay taxes would relieve a load of debt.
     
  16. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #16

    It depends on how "Civil Unions" are defined legally.

    As I said in another thread, call it "Fido" for all I care. If it makes it acceptable, that is all that matters. Civil Unions do offer the possibility (courts will decide on the rest) of equal rights for committed Gay couples. As long as the Republicans and Religious Right confuse the word "marriage" with its religious connotations, we ill have issues.

    My hope s that Civil Unions will confer most if not all rights enjoyed by all so far. In a perfect world the SOCTUS would decide before November that "separate but equal" does not apply tp same sex unions. Much like the promises that the Drug Company Support Bill (otherwise aka MediCare Reform), we can only hope to reform it to make it better.

    There is hope for America. One in that we can all benefit in. As I have said before, it is better than failed compassion.
     
  17. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #17
    i understand that you don't care what it's called, but people like john kerry and john edwards do... as of now, a civil union (legally speaking) is not equal to a marriage. if that changes, then fine. but i don't hear them saying they'll change the rights of a civil union under federal law....

    billy clinton passed the defense of marriage act. how do you feel about that?


    pseudo- i agree that local is a great place to start. probably *the* place to start.

    at the same time, i don't think that it's unreasonable to run as a third party to pressure the democrats to have a backbone and stand up for themselves and a lot of things that they seem to be afraid to stand for (health care for all, reformed/reduced military budget, etc).

    you're right about corporations not paying taxes. i just don't think kerry/edwards will do enough to shut off the loopholes (admittedly they'll do a better job than bush, but who wouldn't? hah).

    i also think that cutting the defense budget would free up a ton of money for other much better things. even without cutting size of military (though we should), one could get rid of a lot of the waste... the gov't is so inefficient it's sad.

    but anyhoo

    i'll admit, i'll be happier/relieved if kerry wins. at the same time, i would never try to take anything away from any candidate who runs when he's told time and time again "not this year"...
     
  18. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #18
    I tend to get rather cynical in my view of politics, but I can recognize a great speech when I hear it. That was one of the best speeches given at a political convention. Period. That was a speech that reaches out to average Americans struggling to make it and moves them to action. This guy is amazing. I've heard over and over again that those who have seen him in action that this wasn't his best effort - if it wasn't the GOP is in trouble.
     
  19. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #19
    there is no swing this year. the election is close, but nearly everyone has already decided which way they're going to vote. instead of going for the swing vote, why *not* energize the base, and get some of those non-voting Dems off their asses and into the voting booths?
     
  20. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #20
    Thank you. Despite jelloshotsrule's comments; we have to look at the greater possibility. Desegregation did not bring an end to discrimination. Look at the movie Hairspray. It is a good example of the discrimination that existed after the SCOTUS ruling. Virginia has yet to amend the sodomy laws after the SOCTUS ruling.

    I have not seen anything that says that Kerry does not at least support equal rights between the issue of marriage and civil unions. It is boiling down the the word "marriage".

    Now we have Bush supporters calling for a law that restricts under certain circumstances, the rights of the court to interupt the Constitution and the law in general. The Republicans are truly the party of fear.

    They fear the poor. They fear the Gay. They fear those that fear guns. They fear those that don't hold Christian ideals.

    We should fear them.
     
  21. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #21
    More so we need to get those that see no need to vote, to vote. I speak from a standpoint that the more people that vote, the greater the possibility of clearer position as to the peoples intent.

    As shown in FL, you vote does count.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    indeed.

    the latest zogby electoral poll, here, shows that kerry can win w/o florida, missouri and nevada. wacky, eh?

    and to support what thanatoast said above:
     
  23. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #23
    I hope that Kerry holds to the high ground, compared to Bush. Even if he looses. Just as with Gore, there is victory in defeat.
     
  24. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #24
    Like jelloshotsrule, I don't believe Kerry is any Great White Hope. For that, we need to nominate Dean or Kucinich. But I too believe Kerry will be miles better than Bush.

    As far as inspirational words, for me so far the biggest thrill of the convention has been seeing Clinton walk out to the podium to that familiar tune:

    Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
    Don't stop; it'll soon be here.
    It'll be here, better than before.
    Yesterday's gone. Yesterday's gone.


    For me that summarizes the difference between the hope of the liberals and the hopelessness of the conservatives nicely, thank you.

    I know that's considered Clinton's "theme song", but they should really make that the official song of the Democratic party.
     
  25. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #25
    you took gore's giving up of the vote as a victory?

    did you see fahrenheit 9/11?

    i took it as an abadoning of many many voters who voted for him (or who tried)..


    as for marriage vs civil unions. i can no longer easily find kerry's position on gay marriage on his site. interesting.... with some searching, one can find a quote from his daughter that is something about how though he stands for civil unions, not marriage, he wants full equal rights under the law. that's great and all, but he's never talked about how he'll achieve it. that would require making c.u.'s and marriage equal on the federal level. which is fine i guess, but i've never heard him say it... please correct me if i'm wrong.
     

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