House of Lords denies girl the right to wear jilbab in school

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Ugg, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #1
    The French and the Dutch have come under fire for their banning of religious garb and parahpenalia, now, the Brits have taken a shot across the bows of religious dress in public schools.

    Emphasis mine. Are there single-sex public shools in England? I'm all for banning religious garb especially when it's used to repress women but am concerned that such statements could lead to schools where young girls are treated not as Britons would be but as Muslim girls oftentimes are in their home countries.
     
  2. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #2
    Religious debates involving 'public' and 'private' schools and the UK are far too complicated for our petty human brains. :p

    I still don't know what's what there.

    In the U.S:

    Public - State run, free for everyone, subject to state rules.
    Private - Separated from state, privately owned and operated, subject to own rules.

    Anyone care to clarify UK wording?
     
  3. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #3
    Public Schools in the UK used to mean they were very exclusive, mostly male, and cost a fortune. Now the meaning is the same as in the USA.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Don't they also have uniforms?
     
  5. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #5

    I think so. When I was in Cambridge last fall I remember seeing a bunch of kids at the Fitzwilliam Museumand they all had on uniforms. Whether they were from public or private schools, I don't know.
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    You are 100% wrong there. Public schools in the UK are called public because they were the poor person's alternative to private tuition. Eton College, for instance, was founded for the benefit of "seventy poor scholars". They are expensive, exclusive and mainly single sex, but not just male. At most Public Schools, there is a uniform, although some "progressive" ones do not have one, like Bedales, a co-educational Public School in Hampshire.

    In the UK, US "Public Schools" would translate as "State Schools".
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    You should have been listening to their accents...

    The plummy-sounding ones who swear a lot are from Public School.
     
  8. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #8
    In England, you go for private schooling at a public school. In Scotland, public schools (feepaying) are known as private schools. The schools themselves tend to class themselves as independent schools since they are independent of government funding.

    Non-feepaying schools are state schools.

    Both tend to enforce uniforms these days. The fee-paying schools for tradition's sake - and they are the ones which may have shorts for boys or hats/kilts/cravats.

    The state schools often have a uniform of a sweatshirt with the school logo. The uniforms here are designed to stop kids competing to have the latest gear and the right logos.
     
  9. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    Obviously a Scottish slant there: I had to make do with a tail suit, gown and stiff white collar.
     
  10. student_trap macrumors 68000

    student_trap

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    #10
    as has been said, US private is UK Public. Most Schools seem to have uniform over here though, public or state, although most of the time sixth form college is more relaxed with either no uniform or 'smart' rules.

    With gender, there are singe sex and co-ed public schools here for both boys and girls, just as there are singe sex and co-ed state schools, although I believe that there aren't many single sex state schools
     
  11. DerChef macrumors 6502

    DerChef

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    #11
    Basically this silly little girl has heaped even more stress on Muslims who are being even more marginalised in the UK.

    The School was 70% Muslim , had a Muslim Head Teacher (a woman), consulted the local Imams in the Mosques and the community.

    School said they rejected the Jilbab on the grounds of safety.

    They came up with a uniform policy similar to what most of the girls traditionally wear tunic and trousers (most are from Pakistan).

    Basically this girl does not want to dress like a PAKISTANI , that is what she is saying.

    What this shows is that Hijab for Muslim women IS Cultural and has nothing to do with religious doctrine.

    I wonder would she and her backers support a girl coming to the school with a Pentagram rounds her neck and A.nti C.hrist D.evils C.hild scratched on her face.

    or even a girl who is told to wear Islamic dress by her family wanting to wear normal school uniform in class.:p
     
  12. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #12
    The girl in question more or less admitted that she was taking legal action to see how the legal process worked - almost as an educational exercise.

    I wonder if she received legal aid?

    Edit: Yes, she did. This really pisses me off. This case will have cost the legal aid fund tens of thousands of pounds at a time when legal aid is being refused to many facing criminal charges.
     
  13. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #13
    odd. As I remember, "state" schools had a uniform consisting of slacks/shorts, long/short sleeve button-up shirt and school tie. In my dad's day (way back during Wartime) it was the same. Gowns never entered the picture.

    I went to a boarding school (as a day student), which had a uniform of grey slacks, grey shirt, school tie, school jumper, and blazer with school insignia.

    To most Americans, picture something quite a bit like Harry Potter, except with no magic, no gowns and only boys. I remember it fondly...
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    Who said anything about state schools? I might be in this picture:
     

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  15. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    #15
    For the record I'd like to point out that the band AC/DC's name does not mean ANTI-CHRIST/DEVIL CHILD (or any other silly acronym made by Christians) but infact the true meaning: Alternating Current/Direct Current.
     
  16. vniow macrumors G4

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    #16
    I thought it meant you were bi? :confused:
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    Either that, or you've got a dodgy electrician.
     
  18. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #18
    Funny you should mention that, that is another meaning for the phrase among the gay/bi culture, but not the actual meaning of the term, for which the band chose which is the original meaning.

    I bet Wiki has something on this... ah, yes, it does
     
  19. iGav macrumors G3

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    #19
    Unbelievable isn't it.

    What's the betting on her trying an appeal? stupid little girl.
     
  20. Uma888 macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Isnt she wearing it out of choice?

    Whats wrong with chosing what you want to wear?
     
  21. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

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    #21
    Here in Aus, Private school = expensive. Public = no fees. Both types have uniforms, you'd be hard pressed to find a school here that doesn't have some type of uniform.

    Religious head-ware was fine. I went to a catholic school and we had a couple of muslim kids who wore the hijab and at least one sikh with the beginnings of his turban. The school kept roughly 10% non-catholic to qualify for government assistance despite the fact that it was a private school and pretty damned expensive. Especially the uniform, the blazer alone was over $150.

    It's funny, public schools are nearly totally government funded but more money goes into the private schools....strange.
     
  22. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #22
    A lot of schools take a very dim view of wearing gang apparel and the reason for wearing uniforms is to provide a sense of unity not separateness. Just because someone supposedly chooses to wear something doesn't mean they have the right to, especially in publicly funded schools.

    When it comes to the wearing of religious garb it would be pretty easy to make a case that she didn't choose to wear it but might possibly have been brainwashed into believing she needed to wear it.

    Why would any young woman voluntarily choose to wear clothing that is used to suppress women and their rights?

    In a perfect world it wouldn't be necessary to ban anything but in a world riven by extremist religious idealogy, sometimes it's better to level the playing field early on.
     
  23. katchow macrumors 6502

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    #23
    are u familiar w/ Britney Spears? Midriffs and butt cleavage. She's convinced a whole generation of girls that objectifying themselves=girl power.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    But that would be a bit of a specious argument, wouldn't it? "It's for your own good. You must be possessed/stupid/crazy to want something I don't understand".

    It's also used for modesty and piety. Anything wrong with that?
     
  25. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #25
    Seatbelts are also for our own good and most people willingly comply with rules stating they must be worn while in a moving vehicle. I'll admit there is a fine line which government must not cross but in multi-ethnic societies like England it's important that everyone be treated equally.

    Student uniforms are also a form of promoting modesty and equality, where's the outrage against them? They are for the individual good aren't they?

    As far as piety is concerned, are public schools obligated to provide for it? I don't think so. An argument could be made for public support of piety in mono-religion states but England hardly qualifies for that. Secular states should not be obligated to make exceptions in order to accomodate religious garb that is a potent symbol of the oppression of women.
     

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