How about them gas prices???

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by kuyu, Apr 13, 2004.

  1. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    Sep 16, 2003
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    #1
    I'm a delivery driver. These gas prices blow. My income is much lower due to this OPEC BS.

    I wonder what a tariff threat to the nations of OPEC that is contingent of a certain level of output would do.

    Better yet, get Gates to shut down their computers unless they stop this stupid gouge on the American consumer.

    Thoughts....?
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    You'd think the one thing this administration could get right is being able to talk to OPEC about the oil and gas industry. And before anyone starts complaining about the evil Democrats blocking our Great President's Energy Policy (otherwise known as The Secret Pact), even with it's passage in year one of the Bush administration, NO OIL WOULD YET BE FLOWING FROM NEW DOMESTIC SOURCES. Whether it would help in the future is debatable, but at the current time it would do no good.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    i'm sorry it's affecting you this way. (do you have your own business? if not, how is it affecting your bottom line?)

    but -- i'm happy they're up and hope they go even higher. maybe words like 'conservation' and 'high mileage' will creep back into the national vocabulary.

    i think this is the only way american drivers will start buying better mileage cars and, ultimately, reduce our foreign oil dependence. i don't know if the day is today, but it's coming sooner or later.

    (on NPR the other day, they revealed the gas mileage of the model T -- it was either 21 or 28 mpg, i forget which. how sad that we haven't been able to improve much on that)
     
  4. kuyu thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #4
    I deliver pizza's in my own car. I buy the gas, so the price affects my income.

    Personally, I'd love to have a hybrid, but I can't afford one.

    The model T did get better gas milege than Ford's current line-up. However, it was a bit more environmentally unfriendly.
     
  5. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #5
    ahh. how do you do your expenses - can you deduct gas or do you do the overall mileage deduction?

    diesels get great mileage. pseudo and i both have late model VWs w/ TDi's. i get about 40/55.
     
  6. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    Ok, I'm going to do the unthinkable -- I'm going to defend OPEC.

    First, OPEC prices oil in U.S. dollars, right?

    Since the Bush administration has come into office the dollar has declined in value 45% against the Euro, from a low of 0.8230 dollars in October 2000 to well over $1.20. (Today was the first day the value of the dollar against the Euro dipped below $1.20 since November.) As a result, quite a number of OPEC oil ministers have complained to the Bush administration that the U.S.'s weak dollar policy was driving down their income.

    Today the price of a barrel of oil is $38 -- a huge increase in price. But the equivalent would be a $20 barrel -- a very low price indeed! (By the way, until the dollar's collapse, OPEC liked to keep oil in the $22 to $28 range.)

    So who is making money with a low dollar and high oil prices? Refiners and oil importers. Even with the same margins, they can make more profit with higher oil prices.

    Can you name some companies that might like this situation??
     
  7. kuyu thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #7
    Great point about the falling dollar. You're right, but OPEC cutting supplies is still unacceptable. It's price gouging, and a cartel. Kind of like deBeers.

    Off topic, but....
    Did you know... If any of the DeBeers execs set foot on US soil they will be arrested on site? They run a cartel and artificially inflate the price of diamomds. A one-carot diamond is actually worth about $10. They keep warehouses full of them and only allow so many to circulate at once, therby inflating the price several hundred fold.
     
  8. kuyu thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #8
    Zim, I only had to pay ~$60 this year in taxes, so I don't even worry about deductions. I have $15 taken from every paycheck so I'm sure to get a refund. BTW, my refund this year is about $110 more than last year. Thanks G Dub. I'll be sending the money to Apple for one of those sweet new emac's.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    The amount of your refund has little to do with how much you paid in taxes. For instance, this year I owe money even though I paid less in taxes than last year (I was unemployed for a few months this past year when my manufacturing job disappeared).

    And even if you paid less in overall federal tax, have any fees or local taxes gone up for you? I know they have for me.
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    They sit on a limited unrenewable resource.

    Would you be so quick to take land rights away from an American landowner in say, Alaska, if gold was found on his property so it could be commerically mined faster than he wanted to do it himself?

    If OPEC switches to the euro there will be hell to pay. I'm talking US bombings.
     
  11. kuyu thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #11
    Our mayor is trying to raise taxes to buy a water company that's not for sale. But, she's so far unsuccessful. My taxes for state and local were the same, federals were lower.
     
  12. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    Location:
    Florida
    #12
    I'm a bank courier this year my millage credit is 37.5 cents per mile BTW.
    Anyhow it 1980 dollars we pay less in gas (in Florida) than we did in 1980. Somebody keeps forgetting to adjust for inflation when they talk about high gas prices. California I heard is near record almost 3 bucks a galloon which is over a dollar a galloon than I pay in Florida. Maybe the fact that they can only use oil produced in California made with their overpriced gasoline formulas has somethign to do with it?

    Also gas prices would be lower if we were allowed to drill for our own oil resources where our oil resources actually lay. We can't drill for it where it aint and environmentalist aint allowing us to drill for it where it is. If the Environmentalist cared more about humanity than the loussy carabo, who loves mating next to "warm" oil pipes and thus oil drilling actually increases their population, then they would shut up and let us do what we need to do. I assure you these oil companies while greedy capitalist pigs aren't interested in ruining their bottom line by having an accident and feeding the liberal left wing PR machine. They will do everything in their power to insure accidents don't happen. The very same so called greed that makes a company tick will also protect the environment.

    Also while I hate the monopoly of Opec and was hoping our war with Iraq could break that monopoly up. BTW if it was a war about oil than we would not have allowed Iraq to rejoin OPEC. But we didn't have a say in the matter. Anyhow in the same token once that oil is gone so are they. Name one thing they produce besides oil that someone outside of the Middle East is willing to pay for? Name one thing they've invented that matters to anyone else in this world? Nothing comes out of the middle East except terrorism and oil. Without these they wouldn't matter at all.
     
  13. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    SlyHunter:
    liberal left wing PR machine . . . Name one thing they've invented that matters to anyone else in this world? Nothing comes out of the middle East except terrorism and oil . . .​

    For a moment there I almost thought you were going to present serious arguments. I guess not.
     
  14. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #14
    Sorry I forgot to finish that paragraph.

    Therefore I cannot blame them for milking what they do have to export as much as possible.
     
  15. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    Penryn
    #15
    Although $2.25 a gallon is high it is nowhere near $3 a gallon. Perhaps you are simply exagerating to state your case? And, while CA does have a lot of oil and refines a great deal, the majority comes from outside the borders of the state and outside the borders of the US. The state does have strict emissions policies but the major reason for high gas prices in the state is the lack of refining capacity and the excessive breeding practices of SUVs.

    Your knowledge of the caribou seems to have come directly from an Exxon advertisement. Rather than believing the propaganda of gw & co. it wouldn't hurt if you did a little research to see exactly how devastating oil exploration and drilling are in the great white north. There are areas up there that will never recover from the damage already inflicted. This we know as a fact. Also, global warming, whether natural or man-made has made the pipeline into a dangerous unstable entity. The tundra is melting and the pipeline in many areas is sinking. There are many who doubt that it will last another 15 years at the current rate of warming. Since that is the only possible way of getting oil off the north slope it is sort of stupid to drill for it if you can't get it out of there.

    People?!?!? or are they simply irrelevant to your argument? This lack of respect for those who don't share your views is why we are there in the first place and our historical support of terrorist organizations is why bin laden came to power. We created the situation. The other thing is that why should we continue to support those countries and companies that have created the situation? We have the ability to transform our import-based economy to a domestic supplied economy when it comes to fuel within 50 years. Unfortunately we have a prez who is only interested in helping out his oil field buddies (the same ones who bailed him out of his failed businesses) and cares nothing for putting Americans to work.
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    California is saddled with a very problematic gasoline refining oligopoly -- most of the capacity is owned by a very few companies, and they're always running on the hairy edge of meeting demand. You'd think that such a strong market demand and high prices would lead to greater production, but you'd be wrong. In fact, Texaco is about to close one of their refineries in California. This closure will come right in the middle of the summer driving season. Odd? Some think so.

    Also, for some time, the state's been asking the EPA for a waiver from the requirement to use gasoline reformulated with ethanol. If this waiver was approved, California would be able to import gasoline used in other states. The EPA is sandbagging this request. Odd? Some think so.
     
  17. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #17
    but the stuff they spew out is... well, horrible to put it nicely

    it's a tough question with regards to diesel vs regular gas... i think hybrids are the best option right now. a high mileage non diesel would be a tough competition for the diesels... but i don't know that there are any regular gas, 5 seat sedans that get 35+ mileage, so for now i'll lean towards the diesels. but hopefully the hybrids will soon take over... or whatever tech might be next/better...
     
  18. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    modern diesels, like the kind mercedes and VW are using, are actually pretty clean. it's a good fuel and a good technology. iirc, some 30% of european passenger cars are diesel.
     
  19. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #19
    And stink to high heavens.

    I'm liking hybrids myself but I'm worried about finding a mechanic when it breaks down. I drive over 100,000 miles a year and that could become a huge problem.

    Vehicles based on water I think could be a problem because water is already getting pretty expensive for my tastes. We have to deal with yearly water shortages already.
     
  20. blue&whiteman macrumors 65816

    blue&whiteman

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    Nov 30, 2003
    #20
    none of this will matter in 20 years or so when all of the worlds fuel resources will be depleted. that 20 years will get even shorter if this suv obsession keeps up.

    its all fine by me since I don't drive anyway. cars are evil!

    convenience over a healthy earth? I think not.

    dead earth = dead population of the earth.

    end tree hugging rant :)
     
  21. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #21
    20 years ago they said we would be out of gas today.
    20 years ago they said global warming would be to such an extreme today Miami would be underwater.

    Not safe to believe everything they say. I got a great book the Last gasp about how we couldn't be alive in the State of Florida today written back in the 70's. Guess they were wrong.
     
  22. blue&whiteman macrumors 65816

    blue&whiteman

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    #22
    regardless. its still bad for our mother earth.

    I know some people do need to drive and all but when I see a 90 pound woman driving an suv alone (and thats a lot) it makes me want to scream. thats total over-consumption.
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    someday, it will be true. more consumption today moves that date closer. wouldn't you agree?
     
  24. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #24
    Yes, hopefully by that time we will have a better energy source.
    Someday there will be nothing left on Earth to use and by that time I hope we'd have colonize planets beyond our solar system. As such we need an investment today to insure that future should we survive long enough comes about before we run out of energy sources.
     
  25. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Zimv20: why are you arguing with a troll?

    SlyHunter:
    . . . I got bored in the forum I was in. The only folks that were left were the ones who agreed with me and the lunatics that could never be convinced they were wrong. I did a search on Google for Left Wing radicals who needed their blindfolds removed and this was the top of the list. I have no interest in discussion macs and I could've left IBM completly off my profile . . .​

    As I said before, I certainly don't mind discussing politics with someone to the right of me (basically everyone on the planet), but discussing politics with a PC user crosses the line. ;)
     

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