How do we as a society deal with Child molesters?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Backtothemac, Apr 17, 2004.

  1. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #1
    This is an issue that every year takes more and more of my brain power to sort through. What do we do these people? How do we get more proactive in finding them, and removing them from society before they prey on people.

    Samantha Runion. That little girl's story did, and continues to rip at my soul. What punishment is fitting?

    Lets keep this civil, lets be calm, and discuss an issue that is very powerful, emotional, and actually get somewhere.


    *Note, if ANYONE attempts to hijack this thread, or becomes rude and vulgar, I will personally notify the mods that will bring the wrath of the Gods down on you :D *
     
  2. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #2
    You can't do anything "before" unless your psychic.
    Maybe if they were genetically tested before birth and then aborted, but I wouldn't recommend that idea.
     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #3
    No personal expertise, but I've read of clues available to psychologists, which most lay people recognize only after the fact. It could be useful--but rather insulting and an invasion of privacy, I guess--to run checks on people in certain positions. Teachers? Preachers? Scout leaders? (I'm not advocating; I'm just pointing out certain "Before" methods that could reduce the problem.)

    Our system is based (supposed to be, anyway) on punishing after misdeeds, not preventing misdeeds in the first place. Cops function primarily as janitors, cleaning up after messes have been made.

    From what I've read, the drive to molest overpowers any fear of punishment.

    As to punishment? I see that crime as one of the worst and most obscene betrayals of trust and innocence. Just put me down as very old-fashioned and primitive, and leave it at that.

    'Rat
     
  4. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

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    #4
    If you could predict behavior before it happened well then you could change things, stop them from commiting crime.

    Since we can't I say we punish them to the fullest extent, child-molestors and rapists are the worst ever.
     
  5. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #5
    Well, look at Dru. Her killer has been charged with several rapes, and attempted rapes, but yet he was out on the streets. Should rape carry a punishment of life with no parole?

    I personally think child molestation should carry the death penalty, but I don't know if others will agree with me on this or not.
     
  6. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #6
    I just had an evil, very evil thought.
    Think 10-20 years from now on tv news report just in.
     
  7. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #7
    Guy accross the street from me when I was a kid got divorced from his first wife for molesting his daughter. Got his butt sent to the hospital when he tried to molest a daughter by his second wife. He's now old found Jesus and still married to that woman. All his daughters grew up and seem well adjusted. He's never been to jail except for DUI or public intoxication and he don't do that anymore either.

    Apparently even child molesters can be rehabilitated. I'm for the death penalty if the person has no hope of parole or being freed from jail again and/or if the person is judged to be incapable of being rehabilitated. Other than that we should be careful of who we execute.

    In this case he only did it when he was drunk, but I know alcohol is no excuss.
     
  8. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #8
    The best way to prevent child molestation is to prevent domestic abuse. The bigget indicator of someone become a child molestor is someone who grew up in a home where there was domestic abuse.

    Now I'll go look and see if I can find any online links to studies. Don't hold your breath. The good stuff never makes it to the internet. It hangs out in college/university libraries on the shelves in the Journals.
     
  9. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #9
    I don't know how to prevent a child molsester from molesting the first time
    but
    child molestors usually make their tendencies known in adolence and early adulthood
    and research has consistently proven that they cannot be rehabilitated
    I think the first step to solving the problem is creating an open dialog in society, a dialog in which the abused will not be subjected to even more abuse if they come forward. If such a dialog was to be openly discussed many of the children and adults who have suffered would be more willing to come forward thus at least notifying others to the actions of their abusers.
    secondly I think we as a nation need to start treating child molestation and incest as a crime
    peoples lives are destroyed every day by sick bastards
    if the abused do come forward they are often ostracized, told by their parents/family member/law enforcement that it is a family problem, or in the rare case where there is prosecution the offender gets only minimal time in prison (even less if it is inscest). Often times first offenders are released with no time served and only a restraining order keeping them from molesting the same child twice.
    Child molesters are murderers. They murder not the physical child but childhood and the kids future, they kill the soul. As such I think all child molesters, first offenders along with rapist, should be encarcerated indefinately. Child molestation carries too high a price on the children of america and society in general to be treated as it is by the american judicial system. Cocaine dealers, pot growers, and tax evaders often time receive more punishment than those who rape the future of america.

    I still think that child molesters should be slopply castrated with a rusty pair of lefty safety scissors (rightys for the leftys) by those who they molested when they become adults.
     
  10. G5orbust macrumors 65816

    G5orbust

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    #10
    Child molesters and rapists are the scum of society.

    I think they should be exempt from the law preventing "cruel and unusual punishment".
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    And if it isn't a safe conviction? What then?

    And if it isn't a safe conviction? What then?
     
  12. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #12
    Being placed on a publicized listing of sexual offenders is inhumane but happens as a consequence to their crime. Even ones who met girls in bars and found out later they were under age are on that list, or some who just innocently patted a rear or an arm and were falsely accused. Yes and allot of them were guilty as sin. Irregardless they all can't go anywhere, live anywhere without someone announcing to everyone in the area they are sexual offenders or predators. I am surprised we havn't heard anything in the news about their homes burning down or their corpses found in the middle of the street by a neighborhood watch vigilante committee. But then if it did happen would the press publicize the fact since it goes against their agenda of promoting the listings?
     
  13. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    i'm not familiar w/ the case b2tm brought up -- what are the particulars of how the man went free?
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #14
    zim, some rapists get plea bargain deals because of the difficulty in proving full-bore rape to a jury. This commonly results in both a relatively short sentence and then an early-out for good behavior. A guy gets sent up a time or two, beginning in his early twenties; commonly he's on the street again while in his late 30s or in his 40s.

    I don't know the inside of the minds of rapists, but I'll comment that some guys, as they get older, get into the "Lolita" thing...I think that's part of why we read about some guy in his 50s or even older who molests or rapes younger girls.

    There have been many efforts to improve our various states' systems of family abuse of whatever sort. For all the flaws, the systems are certainly better than they were some 20 or 40 years back, as near as I can tell.

    A downside vignette of modernity: Florida law requires the names of any accused be held in the computer for two years, regardless of innocence. Public record about a complaint. A couple was accused of child abuse, the complaint saying that two-year-old "Herman" was left alone all day, locked in the bathroom. That was indeed true. Herman was the pet raccoon of this childless couple. However, there was no provision in the law that their names be erased from the computer, no longer publicly accused of child abuse.

    The reason the law had no provision for erasure was a fear of corruption in the record keeping...

    'Rat
     
  15. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    It is really pretty. Attempted Agrivated Rape, Agrivated Rape, Attempted Kidnapping, and yes, Kidnapping.

    Here is a link to his bio http://www.doc.state.mn.us/level3/OffenderDetail.asp?OID=108212
    Notice, the words "no longer under supervision".

    Here is a link to what he has done since.
    http://crime.about.com/cs/currentcases/a/rodriguezprelim.htm
    Notice, released last May after serving 23 years! November killed Dru.

    They found her body yesterday.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117398,00.html

    Someone in another thread said that justice had been served in this case. How? That is the point. WE as a society failed this girl, her family, and her friends.
     
  16. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #16
    Re: Kill em, kill em, kill em

    Then there's the sexual deviant for years who was unable to control it, and it was found he had a brain tumor.

    When it was removed his urges stopped, and years later when the tumor grew back -- so did his sexual urges.

    According to some people he's a danger to society and should be killed.

    Even though the doctors can point to a brain tumor as the cause of his problems twice.

    But he is also a sexual deviant with a history and many states would love to see him behind bars for life...

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-07-28-pedophile-tumor_x.htm
     
  17. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #17
    are they child molesters or rapists?
    if yes then castrate and indefinately incarcerate the bastards
    if no
    set them free

    i was not attempting to set forth some sort of legislative statute that would hold true in all ocasions. Nor was I attempting to create an empirical set of standardized procedures. I was simply attemting to voice what I feel should happent to child molesters.

    What is a safe conviction?
    what is an unsafe conviction?
    where do you feel reasonable doubt ends and an unsafe conviction begins?

    I guess if you were to hold me to what I said previously, I would in an attempt to prevent those who did not commit the crime from having to go through the punisment to have a mandatory appeal simalar to a death penalty case.
     
  18. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #18
    This person should still be locked up. No doubt about it. Obviously he should be punished for the crimes, however, he is a threat to society because when his cancer comes back, boom. So does the crime. Tough case. I am not looking for acceptions like these, but the norm like Dru's killer.
     
  19. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #19
    B2TM,

    I appreciate the attempt to discuss an important issue that tends to degenerate into a "string 'em up" shouting match. I don't have a lot of answers on this topic, but in honor of your attempt I'll throw in my two cents.

    I don't think the answer to your question about what to do before an attack is in the realm of new laws. I think it is more in the area of education of parents about the dangers that children face from pedophiles and the kind of precautions we need to take. There is no way that I know of to identify pedophiles before they commit a crime, and as a civil society based on laws it is perhaps even more dangerous to start down the road of punishing people before they commit a crime. There maybe early warning signs of such behavior that we can identify for treatment but I don't know what they are or how to go about it. Such treatment would have to be voluntary and the reality of most such criminal's lives is that they have been abused themselves, as Neserk has pointed out, most often by the very parents that would have to ok treatment.

    On the punishment side, I do think there is ample evidence that much longer prison terms or commitment time is necessary because of the very likely rate of reoccurrence of these crimes by such individuals. I do not support, however, mandatory sentences in this or any other crime. All we need is overzealous prosecutors who start throwing 18 year-old boys in jail for 25 years to life for having sex with their 17 year-old girlfriends. There is a critical function of society to protect children from abuse and a little common sense should go a long way. I leave the discussion about the death penalty out, because, as we have discussed in the past, I don't support its use in any case.

    One very good development is that we, as a society, are increasingly refusing to sweep child abuse in family situations into the dark closet it has so often been relegated. Perhaps if we can get at these early causes we can make some headway in stopping the development of such individuals.

    I'm sorry I can give so little to your discussion, but for what it is worth, those are my thoughts.
     
  20. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #20
    I am sorry everyone. I mean to ask what can we do after they commit a crime to ever keep them from committing another. Dru's killer had already served 23 years. Yet he got out to rape and kill. That is the problem. Should violent criminals be locked up for life? Yes, some that are truely refomed would have to suffer for those that don't but, it would keep society safe.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    This man should have been better assessed before release. 23 years is a long time.
     
  22. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #22
    How far are you willing to go to keep society safe?

    Are you willing to give up a lot of your freedom, because putting the government in charge of your life will make you safe?

    How much are you willing to pay to keep yourself safe?

    Another tenth to third of your take-home pay. Would that be enough to keep people who drink, use weapons to commit crimes, violently/sexually assault people, etc. locked up for the rest of their lives.

    Of should we use slave labor in the prisons so society doesn't have to be burdened by everybody we need lock up to keep ourselves safe?

    The lawyers would say you're on the slipperly slope, when you start going after one class of people as a supreme danger to society. Because somebody will always point out another group just as dangerous and deadly as the group you're trying to eliminate.
     
  23. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #23
    I beleive he was assessed
    and was beleived to still constitute a danger to society as he was likely to re commit
    however
    you are not able to hold people longer than their sentence requires
    legally they have "paid their debt to society" and futher holding is impropper
    california attempted to create a law in which extreme sexual predetors would be held in a mental health facility after their sentences were officaily over
    the initial batch of felons were able to skirt this "regulatory function" by citing ex post facto law
    in that when they were origionaly convited the regualtory holding did not apply thus they were not further held
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    Over here, we have a quaint sentence of being "detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure". Indefinite detention, subject to reports and reassessment.
     
  25. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #25
    supprisingly this has a relatively easy answer
    the vast majority people in american prisons are non violent (at least when they went in) offenders
    many of these are drug users
    If we simply stop incarcerating those whose crimes are aginst themselves and possibly use home incarceration against other non violent felons then we can open up large numbers of cells for those who truly deserve punishment
    there are a crap load of child molesters but they are not nearly as prevalent as drug users
    one of the problems with child molesters and rapists is their high propensity to re offend
    thus while the problem is great and their victims are many the relative number of criminals is small
     

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