How does an emac stack up, for me?

Discussion in 'Buying Tips, Advice and Discussion (archive)' started by DaTsar, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. DaTsar macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    #1
    Despite my bad experiences with apple products in the past(it was a combination of other factors, i.e an idiot of a Mac buyer at my old school) I have decided mainly due to iLife,
    curiosity and setup to buy an apple of my own, I am however a poor student and still leery, so I think I will start myself off with an eMac, and see if I want to get a full setup from there.

    I’ll use it for: iLife(all the programs), some basic photo editing ,simple applications software and maybe a few RTS games, but I do most of my gaming on my Xbox, so game performance is not my concern. I will get it with a super drive and a Gb of ram. If I get one that is.

    You see, the mhz Myth has never been quite explain to me, other then there is a differences based on other parts of the CPU.I still am considering a PC(perhaps just for this reason + initial cost[keep in mind that in Canada which ups the price difference a little]), and as much as iLife and other software would promote me to buy a little lesser computer(if it is in fact lesser) to have iLife is not necessary to my needs and for that reason I am stuck.

    So can anyone explain to me or give me a good site that explains the myth in full, and what in PC terms(for the functions I want) this eMac is, without understanding this, I don’t know if a Intel Pentium 4 Processor at about 3.0GHz w/ 533MHz FSB is compared to a 1Ghz G4.

    Can anyone help?
     
  2. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #2
    emac vs pc...

    I cannot really fully explain the MHZ myth to you, mostly has to do with the differences in architecture between PPC and Intel, design of chip(s)(like pipeline stages, cache etc) and instruction sets like altivec on the G4, SSE(ithink) on intel chips...anyway... I will equate the eMac to the PC you listed...the PC will be quite a bit faster. The eMac has a 1ghz processor, a 167mhz(or 133 can't remember...)bus, a 5400rpm(maybe 7200...I'm a little lazy...)The PC has a processor that is 3x as fast as well as a system bus that is 3x as fast...HD probably comparable...PC has more upgrade options too...BUT, that is only part of the story...the other part has to so with the os...and in this department macs are far superior...unfortunately, XP also feels snappier compared to os X(.2or.3) However, many people are convinced that os X is vastly superior...file structure...unix base...aesthetics...ease of use, and for a computer you use everyday...that is no small potatoes....the other thing is, if you will not be doing alot of cpu intensive tasks on your computer...the gap in speed will not be an issue between the PC and MAC...seems like a tough call, but if it makes a difference, both of my computers are slower than the eMac (I have a G4 733 Powermac and a G3 900(upgrade) Powerbook...with alot of ram in both, I accomplish all the tasks I need (and I do some rather intensive work...) and have a pleasant computing experience while doing it....it all comes down to a matter of taste really...Go to a CompUSA or local Mac retailer and take one for a spin...
     
  3. jrv3034 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    #3
    For the tasks you described, the eMac seems like the perfect fit. I would definitely recommend adding as much RAM as possible, because that will really make a big difference in performance. Otherwise, you'll be good to go.
     
  4. x86isslow macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    #4
    I just bought a Superdrive eMac with an upgrade to 512-1dimm. it was 1200usd. They have a deal: buy now and get a free epson printer. I'm not sure if that goes for Canada too.

    as for the things you want to use it for, if you upgrade the ram you'll be fine.

    here's what the chip designers have to say about the megahertz myth: http://www.itworld.com/Comp/1057/040218isscghz/
     
  5. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Location:
    Louisville
    #5
    I have an emac 700 combo, and I really like it. It's a great computer for a student, and iLife works pretty well. Garageband is frickin' awesome, but my lil' ol' G4 can't handle more than about ten tracks simultaneously. With 30% more processing power, you should be fine there.

    The pc your talking about will be much faster, but remember.......... a computer is only as fast as the person using it. Almost every task requires fewer steps on the mac, so the speed difference is negligable (unless you plan to render a full length film). Either computer will be nice, but I'd take the mac. After using one for a year, I can't stand XP anymore.

    I have a pc too, and it sits there collecting dust. They sit side by side, but I always go to the mac.
     
  6. baby duck monge macrumors 68000

    baby duck monge

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    #6
    i think others can talk to you more about the actual performance differences than i can, so i will leave them to it. for me, the machine just has to do what you need it to do, and you need to be happy while doing it. the only way to know is to go play on one.

    other than that, to help ease the price difference (if you go for a mac), shop around for the extra ram. that will help take a bit off the price (not a whole lot, but every little bit counts, right?).
     
  7. Opteron macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Location:
    South Australia
    #7
    Re: How does an emac stack up, for me?

    on www.tomshardware.com review there is a great review of about 25 PC processors (READ IT)

    here's the link http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20031223/index.html

    The thing that kills the G4 is the FSB, it's hit a brick wall @ 167MHz, and can't be double or quad pumped like AMD and Intel Chips. And the G4 seems to not be able to go any faster than 1.42GHz.

    Alot has to do with the IPC (Instructions per clock cycles) This is how AMD is able to keep up with intel yet being almost 1GHz behind. The same with the PPC.

    There are many other more complex details but what it really boils down to is
    How fast can you feed data to the Processor (RAM and FSB)
    How fast can it be processed (IPC's and Clock rate)
    How fast can it be convayed to the user (FSB, North Bridge, Grahics card...)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Location:
    Wakayama, Japan
    #8
    Re: How does an emac stack up, for me?

    First I think the eMac is a fine machine. It may not be top of the line but with some extra RAM as long as you aren't trying to do heavy video editing or hard core gaming you should be fine.

    MHZ Myth
    The simplest way I can explain the MHZ myth is by analogy.

    Imagine two people who have to walk a certain distance. Lets say 100 meters. The first person can take 10 steps in a minute. The second person can only take 6 steps per minute. But that doesn't tell us how fast each one gets done because we don't know how big their steps are. So person one takes 1 foot per step. Person two takes two feet per step. So in one minute person one goes 10 feet, but person two goes 12 feet. This is what the MHZ myth is all about. The idea that how fast the individual steps get done isn't as important as how fast the overall task gets done.
    Essentially the argument is that the Pentium series of chips is the first person, the second person being the PowerPC.

    Now obviously the details are a little more complicated. In addition to clock cycle you have to worry about how deep the pipeline is, and as you mentioned bus speed, memory, HD speed, etc.

    What you really have to ask yourself is not how fast it is, but is it fast enough for what you want to do with it. I currently have an iMac 800 MHz, and it does a good job for the things I need to do with it, photo editing, interenet, word processing, and even some gaming. The eMac 1ghz should be even better with a faster processor and a slightly better graphics card.

    Also where did you find this 3ghz pentium with 533 fsb for the same price? I'm curious.


     
  9. MictXP macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Washington
    #9
    The MHZ myth does, unfortunately, have some validity. If you are doing really heavy CPU tasks that have little optimization (such as SETI or DVD Crunching), you will notice that the PC is faster. Probably a lot faster to tell you the truth. (The November or December issue of MacWorld said that very thing).

    However, there are a few other things to consider. First (probably most important) is that a Windows machine will slow down dramatically over a few months. This is just the way Windows is designed. The heavy crunching programs will not be affected too much, but surfing, emailing, word processing, etc., will take forever. The way that I get around this on my PC is, sadly, to format my hard drive every few months. There are other solutions, but none that will get your PC to a truly "fresh install" state. I've had my "weak" 867 PowerBook (slower RAM, slower HD, slower FSB, etc) since September, and it runs a lot faster than my 1.7 GHZ PC does. I've never had to format my Mac.

    Second, you'll not have to waste CPU power on an anti-virus program with a mac :-D Well, in theory you should, but if you went 5 minutes without an AV on a PC, you'd be toast.

    More about the speed -- the key to speed in terms of video editing, etc., is the optimization that happens. Think of it this way -- when a processor is not optimized, it is speaking a foreign language. A P4 doing video editing would be like an American in another country. The P4 would be very fast and could look up 3.2 Billion words per second -- yes, that is faster than any eMac can do right now. But the eMac is fluent -- it doesn't need to look up any words! That's why, if you use Final Cut Express, you often don't need to wait for the video to render -- you can edit in real time! (Yes, even on my puny PB).

    So the speed thing is much more complicated now. PCs are faster, but Macs will probably be just as fast in "real world" applications. Also remember that, if you buy a cheap PC, you are buying a *cheap* PC. If you buy a cheap Mac, you are buying a Mac that costs less money.

    One final consideration -- I would buy with whatever OS you like. That's what it boils down to in the current age. I still have my PC, but I use it mainly for DVD compression. For anything else, my Mac is much better. (I consider myself a power user, btw).
     
  10. DaTsar thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    #10
    Hey, thanks;
    Well, I didn't know that windows thing, I noticed it don't get me wrong but I never thought it happen cause of windows, just computers that get work on in general.

    but one more thing:
    Is it worth spending that extra money on an 17" iMac for as I said and introduction to apple?
     
  11. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Montréal (Canada)
    #11
    One of the thing that people never talk about on the eMac is how good the screen is! The color contrast is excellent and just for that, its pleasant to work with it.

    The eMac is perfectly good for your need and even more so since you have an xBox and you can concentrate to use the computer on productive task. iLife is very fun and you will soon start shoot/filming all the time and will be called 'kidkodak' by the rest of your friends.

    My advice is to get the HD upgrade and dont buy the ram from Apple, get it from a PC store. As long as its from Kingston, it will be perfect.

    I personnaly think that my mac is faster than my pc for these reason:
    - no matter how fast the computer is, I spend more time thinking about what to do than waiting for it to happen
    - never lost any data, EVER. Just that is a huge time saver
    - computer is always on
    - Never have to worry about virus (big big big plus)
    - What ever I want to do, I can generaly do it in fewer steps on the mac


    As for getting the iMac 17", it is really up to you. I personnaly think that the eMac is a better value but the iMac as the look factor and also the 16:9 screen is way more usefull than a normal screen. Its more a personnal choice than anything. With the money you save you would be able to get a digital camera or an iPod...

    Good luck with your switch! You should be very pleased :)
     
  12. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Location:
    North Carolina
    #12
    If you're going to upgrade from the eMac, the best bet is not a 17-inch iMac. Get a 1.6 Ghz G5 with a 17-inch CRT for about the same price. This thing will blow away the iMac, and most PCs out there too. But the eMac will do you fine for all the apps you've listed. Probably better to spend the extra $ on RAM and HD space than getting a minimally configured higher-level product.
     
  13. MictXP macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Washington
    #13
    You should really test out a Mac then. Boy, will you be surprised :D
     
  14. Crikey macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    Spencer's Butte, Oregon
    #14
    I agree with the others' postings here. In purely hardware kinds of measurements, a 3GHz PC is faster than a 1GHz G4. But using MacOS X is more intuitive and fun than using Windows, and the eMac is "fast enough".

    If you're a student, check into the Apple educational discounts. Here in the U.S., they are substantial. You'd need to buy from a college bookstore, the online Apple Store, or (I think) a retail Apple Store to get that discount.

    I second the notion about buying RAM from someone other than Apple -- at least compare the prices before you buy. We've filled our Macs with ram from www.crucial.com, and never had a problem. I personally would want at least 512MB RAM in an eMac, a gig if you can swing it.

    Have fun!


    Crikey
     
  15. gekko513 macrumors 603

    gekko513

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    #15
    The G5 will be a lot more upgradeable though. I would definitely get the low-end G5 PowerMac. The PowerMac will last you years and years, but you'll probably toss the eMac away in a couple of years when new software that runs poorly on your G4 starts coming out.

    If the choice still stands between iMac and eMac, I would get the eMac, or I would wait for the new iMac ... It's bound to get an upgrade soon.
     
  16. MictXP macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Washington
    #16
    I just wanted to confirm -- yes, you can get the discount at a retail store. That's how I bought my PB -- student discount, no shipping, and no tax :D (They'll give you tax exempt if you can prove that you're from a tax-free state)
     
  17. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Location:
    Maryland
    #17
    I honestly cannot believe that the "PC gets slower after few months" myth continues to be perpetuated. I've had my computer running since last March and in a few weeks, it would have been an entire year.

    The only reason your computer would slow down is 1) spyware (from people who do not use Firefox). 2) Installing/Uninstalling a plethora of applications, useful or not, and not cleaning it out with JV16 PowerTools. 3) Appropriate service tweaks not applied (turn of indexing, turn off several useless background services, turn off prefetch folder, turn off system restore -- which consumes an exorbitant amount of hd space as well).

    #2 is important b/c, after installing XP Pro, Office (first XP, recently upgraded to 2003), and Acrobat and Photoshop, I rarely install anything else besides a few games (SC and CS). If you are installing several new programs every week, then it really is no suprise you'll see a slowdown.

    Honestly, even in 3 years, I don't expect to have to reformat, unless i get hit by a virus. Since I'm using Thunderbird/Firefox with the assistance of SpyBoT:S&D, there is an extremely small possibility of me getting infected. Then, on top of that, I run McAfee (free license as university student).

    Seriously, the 3 month slowdown//twice a year reformat myth needs to be stopped. It is the same as generalizing that OSX never crashes.

    If Firefox was bundled with all new PCs out there (far better in comparison to Safari than IE vs. Safari); then spyware/security problems would be reduced dramatically.
     
  18. Opteron macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Location:
    South Australia
    #18
    3 Years without an Anti-Virus software, and still clean as a whistle.

    Some great anology's about the MHz Myth, AMD released an add avaliable on ther website
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Weblets/0,,7832_8366_7687,00.html

    I would wait until atleat the new BTX motherboard standad is released (april/may) which offers improvements over the current ATX format.
     
  19. gekko513 macrumors 603

    gekko513

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    #19
    On the megahertz-myth.

    The reason why MHz or GHz are not sufficient to measure a processor's performance is simply that the total work the cpu does is:

    work = frequency x work-per-cycle

    The P4 can do a maximum of 3 instructions per cycle. The G4 can do a maximum of 4 (3 instructions + branch).

    But that's not all. The P4 has an instruction pipeline with 20 steps. The G4 has only 3 steps. Instructions enter the pipeline in one end and comes out 20 clock-cycles later with the result (or 3 clock cycles for the G4). To get maximum performance, the pipeline must be 100% filled at all times. Because programs do not run straight from start to finish, but sometimes jumps to other parts of the program or get stalled for other reasons it is difficult to keep the pipeline full. (I wouldn't ask about what other reasons, because you could write a trilogy on the subject ;) )

    It is much harder to keep a 20 step-pipeline filled than a 3 step pipeline. So if a P4 can get a fill-degree of 50% for a program, the G4 would perhaps be able to get a 75% fill degree. This would give
    for the P4
    work-per-cycle = 3 x 0,50 = 1,5
    for the G4
    work-per-cycle = 4 x 0,75 = 3

    For this example, a G4@1GHz would perform as well as a P4@2GHz

    The work-per-cycle factor depends on the kind of program, but usually you can multiply the G4 frequency by 1.2 to 2.0 when comparing to a P4.
     
  20. MictXP macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Washington
    #20
    I would agree with this. I would say that there are some other causes as well, but those three issues rack up the majority of slowdowns.

    The point I want to make, however, is that, for the average user, the computer does slow down. Windows, by default, is insecure and will slowdown. If someone is asking about purchasing advice for an eMac, then they probably don't want to have to run JV16 Powertools, and probably don't know how to turn off background services, indexing, etc., nor will they know which services they don't need. There are websites that attempt to educate Windows users, but even then, which is easier for an average user?

    Windows:
    • Install AV
    • Change default browser/email to Firefox/Thunderbird (or other app)
    • Turn off useless background apps
    • Turn off useless services
    • Optimize system cache
    • Run Spybot once a month?
    • Run Powertools, Systemworks, TweakXP, etc.
    • (Should really install firewall)

    eMac:
    Use it? I can't think of many optimizations I've had to run. I run Cocktail every now an then because I'm on a laptop, but an eMac would run cron scripts automatically.

    There are ways to keep Windows running decently, but for someone who wants a computer that they don't have to maintain or worry about, I'd say Macs are better. For power users, I'd say Windows is still better. (Of course, I haven't tried a G5, so maybe my opinion will change shortly.)
     
  21. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Location:
    Maryland
    #21
    Why are you making it sound like such a complicated process?

    Turning off useless services, indexing services, etc. is a ONE CLICK PROCESS (custom registry entry)

    That's it.

    Switch to Firefox/Thunderbird? One step process. At the beginning. If you do it later, there's a slight learning curve but that's it. I've been using it since last August.

    Run PowerTools? Only if you are always fiddling/installing or uninstalling programs. No real reason to touch it otherwise. I used it recently (the first in 3 months) b/c of a finicky 3rd party TV tuner program, which turned out to be buggy. But aside from that, I haven't had to use that either. AV is a ONE STEP installation. Update? One click away.

    ALL of the necessary tweaking is done at the VERY beginning, yet many MR members continue to avoid or ignore this point I try to make.
     
  22. aafuss1 macrumors 68000

    aafuss1

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    #22
    The eMac's graphis is a Radeon 7500-not fast compared To a FX5200-comparable to say Intel Extreme Graphics (845G/865G), but not the new i915G.
     
  23. Opteron macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Location:
    South Australia
    #23
    This chart is rather old but demonstrates the point that others were trying to make earlyer.
    CPU preformance depends on may features.
    These include
    Cache
    FSB,
    IPC's,
    Clock Rate
    FP vs Int calculations
    Optimization
    etc...
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #24
    Mav451-

    Care to give some more detail on your "one-click" custom registry entry?
     
  25. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Location:
    Maryland
    #25
    hehe well registry entries are imported by simply right-clicking >> Import. Or otherwise, just double click.

    *hah you caught me. It's actually 2 clicks.

    Rower: Do you want the specifics of what i have disabled? Well if that's the case here it is:

    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Alerter]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ALG]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AppMgmt]
    "Start"=dword:00000003

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AudioSrv]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\BITS]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\cisvc]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ClipSrv]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\COMSysApp]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Dhcp]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\dmadmin]
    "Start"=dword:00000003

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\dmserver]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Dnscache]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ERSvc]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Eventlog]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\EventSystem]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\FastUserSwitchingCompatibility]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\helpsvc]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\HidServ]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ImapiService]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\lanmanserver]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\lanmanworkstation]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\LmHosts]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Messenger]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\mnmsrvc]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\MSDTC]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\MSIServer]
    "Start"=dword:00000003

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NetDDE]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NetDDEdsdm]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Netlogon]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Netman]
    "Start"=dword:00000003

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Nla]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NtLmSsp]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NtmsSvc]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\PlugPlay]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\PolicyAgent]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ProtectedStorage]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RasAuto]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RasMan]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RDSessMgr]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RemoteAccess]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RemoteRegistry]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RpcLocator]
    "Start"=dword:00000003

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RpcSs]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\RSVP]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SamSs]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SCardDrv]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SCardSvr]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Schedule]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\seclogon]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SENS]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\srservice]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SharedAccess]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ShellHWDetection]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Spooler]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SSDPSRV]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\stisvc]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SwPrv]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SysmonLog]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TapiSrv]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TermService]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TlntSvr]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TrkWks]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\uploadmgr]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\upnphost]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\UPS]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\VSS]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\WebClient]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\winmgmt]
    "Start"=dword:00000002

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\WmdmPmSp]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Wmi]
    "Start"=dword:00000003

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\WmiApSrv]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\wuauserv]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\WZCSVC]
    "Start"=dword:00000004

    04 = disabled; 03 = manual; 02 = auto

    I know that it might scare you at first (not all of you, but the ones who aren't power users).

    Heck, it scared me in the beginning. But now, I always use this right after installing XP (first test was my brother's 3200+ (2500+ OCed) box; he still adamently refuses to use FireFox, but I got him to use SpyBot to immunize IE at the least...sigh

    Stubborn brothers, what can you do :)
     

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