Howard Dean: Love, Acceptance and Tolerance

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iGary, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    Leader of the DNC (The love, acceptance, tolerance party - remember?):

    Dean's Appearance Has Media in a Sweat
    By Mark Leibovich
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Friday, June 10, 2005; Page C01


    It was a scalding day on Capitol Hill yesterday, and that includes tempers. Things got particularly hot during a photo op in the office of Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) after the minority leader and his Senate deputies completed a 17-minute meeting with the hot-tongued Howard Dean.

    About 60 reporters and cameramen attempted to shove their way into an office equipped to handle about 20. The resulting spectacle offered yet another distillation of why so many people believe that politicians and the media deserve each other.

    In other words, the timing of the confab was not related to the string of controversial remarks Dean has uttered in recent weeks that many Republicans have been quick to condemn and many Democrats have been just as quick to disassociate themselves from. Among other things, Dean has said that he hates "Republicans and everything they stand for," that many of them "have never made an honest living in the lives," that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay "ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence" and -- most recently -- that Republicans are "pretty much a white Christian party." Reid invited questions from reporters.

    "Have you had advice for Governor Dean about his most recent comments, sir?"

    Reid replied that there isn't anyone who hasn't "misspoken" and recited an on-message litany of "important issues" that Democrats are committed to addressing, including the escalating costs of gasoline, health care and college tuition. "We're here today to talk about the American people," he said. But practically everyone else in the room wanted to talk about Howard Dean.

    "Senator Reid, you just used the word 'misspoke,' " yelled one reporter, out-shouting a half-dozen others. He asked if Reid thought that Dean had "misspoken."

    "You know," Dean interjected, "I think a lot of this is exactly what Republicans want, and that's a diversion." He bemoaned the "media circus" of the last two weeks and said that he and Reid were not concerning themselves with that -- only with vital things like Social Security, national defense and jobs.

    "And all this other stuff is all fine and good, and we understand how exciting it all is to you," Dean said, shaking his head.

    The press chorus then devolved into a cacophony of competing screams. (And Dean knows screams!) After several seconds, a booming voice cut through the noise. It belonged to Brian Wilson, a Fox News correspondent who was standing in the middle of the crowd. He asked Dean "if people are focused on the other things that you've said about hating Republicans, about Republicans being dishonest and then this latest comment about the Republican Party is full of white Christians. You say you hate Republicans -- does that mean you also'' hate white Christians?

    Dean didn't respond and Reid talked about having a "positive agenda." Wilson was so insistent that at one point, Durbin asked, "Does he run the press conference?" After Reid took the one question of the morning that was not about Dean (it was about Iraq) there were a host of disjointed and semi-decipherable follow-ups (none of which was about Iraq).

    Someone asked whether Dean would "change his ways," or if he planned to be "less confrontational in the future" or whether he "regrets" anything he has said. An aide to Reid announced that the photo op was over.

    "We'll decide when we're ready," Wilson said. Later, Durbin would recount the scene with some exasperation. He chided the media for avoiding important issues in favor of trivial matters. "Please, for a minute, get to the substance," he said to a group of reporters. "You guys should be ashamed of yourselves."
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Yep. Dean can be the foil to the rest of the Democratic candidates. It's a strategy the GOP has used well for a while. Get your attack dogs out there making the wild claims and let the rest of the candidates look moderate by comparison.

    I don't think the GOP wants to get into a game of 'who's party chair has said the most outrageous thing'.
     
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Geez, so much for the "liberal" media, focusing on the trivial, despite Reid's efforts to concentrate on something more meaningful.

    And Brian Wilson is a total ass. Not only does it sound like he thinks the world revolves around him, but that question was amazingly biased.

    Yeah. Right. All white Christians are Republicans, and Dean hates Republicans, therefore: Dean hates white Christians. Terrific syllogism. [​IMG]

    Not to mention the obvious: you can hate someone's Republican beliefs without hating their Christianity.

    What a freaking media circus.
     
  4. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    I think this situation is humorous on a number of levels. First, one of Dean's most controversial recent remarks seems to be entirely supported by the facts. According to a recent poll, 87% of Republicans self-identify as white Christians. One Republican politico (can't remember who right now) laughably termed Dean's relation of this fact as "an attack on Christians," when clearly it's an attack on Republicans and their narrow base of support. Must sting to have their party described so accurately.

    Second, some leading Democrats are criticizing Dean for pulling the party "off message." Now, what was that message, exactly? I forget.

    Finally, I have to chuckle over the torrent of Republican crocodile tears. While they're lambasting Dean for his edgy comments, the nominal head of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh, says that Democrats "have more fear of Christians than they do nuclear weapons being launched by North Korea," and that most Democratic voters "don't work anyway." And that's just in the last few days.

    I know, I know, the Republicans really do want to lighten up. If only Howard Dean would let them. Boo frigging hoo.
     
  5. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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    I used to be a Republican, and I certainly don't self-identify as a white Christian. I'm sure your stats come from a totally non-biased, scientific study from a reputable organization.

    Imagine what would happen if a Republican said the things he said. Just replace some of the words with "black" or "poor."

    You guys would be lynching the person.

    Way to be objective. :)
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Let's see if I understand here... It's ok for the GOP to run around calling the religious (and largely white) right their base (meaning it makes up a large portion of their constituency), but when someone ELSE calls them the same thing it's bad?

    What am I missing here?
     
  7. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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    #7
    When is the last time the GOP Chairman made that public statement?

    Am I missing something?
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Come on now Gary, did I claim the GOP chair said it? Let's argue the facts, shall we?

    Do you deny that certain people out there have claimed that the GOP is who the faithful should be following? Do I have to drag out the story about the pastor who was sent packing because he was ready to excommunicate members who voted for Kerry? Do I have to go pull quotes from Falwell or Dobson to prove to you that the GOP has been self-identifying as God's Own Party for many, many years now?

    And do you remember the picture taken when Bush signed the ban on late-term abortions? Were there any ovaries in that picture? How about any skin pigmentation other than white? Seen a picture of the GOP congressional delegation lately? How many non-whites are there? Sure there were a whole lot of non-white speakers at the GOP convention last year, and a major push for delegates that wern't white, but look at the numbers. What racial makeup does the majority of the GOP have? And what religion is the majority of the GOP? Yet somehow it's bad when Dean mentions the facts!

    And believe me, I think you could call the Dems the party of White Christians too and you'd only be slightly less accurate.
     
  9. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    CNN/USA Today Gallup. The figure was 82%.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dean10jun10,0,4820107,full.story?

    I don't "lynch" anyone for stating a fact.
     
  10. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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  12. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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    "Imagine what would happen if a Republican said the things he said. Just replace some of the words with "black" or "poor."

    You guys would be lynching the person."

    Indeed.
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Ok, lets see... The Democrats are the party of minorities and the poor. Yep, I could live with that.

    Problem is, that's not true. The Dems are almost as white and almost as Christian as the GOP.
     
  14. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Actually, playing iGary's game, if the words "black" and "poor" were substituted for "white" and "Christian" in Dean's remark, it would produce an untrue statement. Or at least I'd assume it would until someone can produce the statistics from a totally non-biased, scientific study from a reputable organization that demonstrate that the majority of Democrats are poor blacks. This is iGary's standard of evidence, so I think he should be held to it.

    Good luck!
     
  15. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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    Seriously, though, could you imagine what would happen if a Republican said some of the things that Dean said?

    My point is this. Both sides are screwed up beyond belief. I hate both parties equally. The Dems call the Republicans intolerant, non accepting and biased, yet when their own Chairman does the same thing they fail to call him on it. The right-wingers would do the same thing.

    It's nice to be an independent. Anyone who clings to one side needs to do some soul-searching.
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    If the Dems are already calling the Republicans intolerant, non-accepting, and biased, why would the call their leader out for saying the same things???

    It may surprise you to know Gary that I'm an independant too. However, I am a liberal. There is a difference.
     
  17. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    He said, completely ignoring my point, which is that it would produce an untrue statement. Not that true vs. untrue matters much anymore, I guess.

    Like it or not, Dean's statement is true, and is supported by a totally non-biased, scientific study from a reputable organization (again, your standard of evidence). The only people who should be upset are Republican activists who like to portray their party as being more diverse than it is in actuality.

    Still, Democrats in Congress have called Dean on the carpet and tried to disassociate themselves from his comments. When's the last time you heard Republican leaders trying to disassociate themselves from the remarks of Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter or Buchanan -- no matter how raving loony they are?

    BTW, many of the contributors to this board are political independents. In my case, I haven't been a member of a party for nearly 30 years. So the "you guys" form of debating doesn't have much place here, if it does anywhere at all.
     
  18. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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    IJ, sorry buddy, but your viewpoints are about as liberal as they get. You want the government to have a safety net for everyone (from what I have seen you post), you really dislike anyone who has more money than you (from what I have seen you post), you post Republican hate any chance you get and the stories are always from the LA Times, NY Times and Washington Post, all of whih most any sensible person woul agree are totally left-leaning rags.

    You're as much an independent as I am a liberal.

    "Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter or Buchanan"

    When were any of these people head of the Republican National Committee?
     
  19. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    But Gary, all you ever post is Democratic hate, yet you claim to be independant. Based on your criteria put forth I could say you are as independant as I am conservative.

    Not to mention you're posting an article from a so-called liberal rag yourself.

    BTW, Common Cause, and Mother Jones are 'totally left-leaning rags'. WaPo, LaTimes etc may have left-leaning editorial pages, but their news isn't commie propaganda any more than the WSJ's is facist. You know better than that.
     
  21. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    LÖL

    that's just asking for a fight

    luckily it's not 10 pm yet so my stereo is still blasting...thanks, Turbonegro, for yet another glorious album, thank you very much.. 3 days: playcount in itunes 19 times
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Unfortunately, being from the US of A, you don't know the meaning of the word.

    "Left-leaning"? See above. :rolleyes:

    I don't understand: help me out here. Are the two things mutually exclusive? :confused:
     
  23. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    He might be asking for one, but he won't get it from me. I haven't even been tempted to ignorelist anybody for months, but he got that rare honor almost instantly.
     
  24. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Lol... who was it who posted here once that 'Trotsky is leftist, not CNN' in response to a righty's insistance that we were all off the charts with our liberalness?

    Only conservatives can truly be independant. No matter if a liberal belongs to the Democratic party or not, they are never independant.
     
  25. iGary thread starter Guest

    iGary

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