hypothetical networking question

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by Heart Break Kid, Apr 6, 2003.

  1. Heart Break Kid macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #1
    ok
    thanks to macrumors - i have now set up a great home network between my peeeecees and my new 17" PB. Thanks to ya guys i was able to setup a mp3 server using my dell, and have every other comp stream audio over. now heres a question that may stump ya

    lets say i decide to take my powerbook to school. is there anyway to still access my home network - ie. my dell thats on the network i have at home through my Powerbook while on my schools network? or lets say i take it somewhere else? is there anyway to access files that are on my home network remotley? and to do it without any program where ill have to dish out dinero for?

    :D
     
  2. NavyIntel007 macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    #3
    samba should let you read a windows hard drive.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #4
    dunno what your network setup at home is, but if you're going through a router you'd likely have to open up the samba port (what is it, like 42 or something?) and forward it to your music server.

    then the server would be set up w/ samba to allow incoming connections.

    i'm not a windows guy, so i can't help you any further than that.
     
  4. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #5
    my network looks as follows

    all computers are connected wirelessly using microsoft wireless usb antanne and a microsoft base station. the base station is connected to a comp running win 98. the computer i really want access to, is a Dell thats sitting on the network thats running XP. my mac can access files easily on the Dell while on my home network. But if i understand what u guys are saying - i have to "dial in" to the Dell to access the files using this Samba thing. can you elaborate on the samba thingy? and how to set it up?
     
  5. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #6
    cant i just set up a private ftp ?

    and wouldnt that gimme the same results?
     
  6. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #7
    sure (though i'm not sure what you mean by "private")

    w/ your setup, assuming that MS thing is a router, you would:

    1. remotely connect to your router, via its IP, w/ some kind of service (ftp, samba, ssh, et. al.)

    2. have your router set up so that it forwards requests on a certain port (depending on what service you're using) to a certain internal IP (e.g. your dell)

    3. have your dell set up to handle requests for that kind of service

    that's your basic framework. the particulars depend on the service. NavyInt suggested samba, you're thinking of ftp. in a *nix environment, i'd suggest ssh.

    it would also make things easier if you had a static ip, else you'd have to keep up w/ your dynamic IP. and i'm assuming you've got a fulltime internet connection.

    edit: make clearer
     
  7. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #8
    i do have a full time internet connection and static IP for each computer on the network at home.

    im sorry its not clear, im a nooblet to all this stuff - but after you guys helped me setup my home network im hooked. i mean - theres so many possibilities now and i want to try em all out :D

    anyway - i will give the ftp setup a try - what i meant by private is only i know the user name and pass to access the computer - i dont wanna set my comp up so people could dl stuff - jusst want to stream mp3s over so i dont have to store any on my 17" . i need the space for editing home movies :D
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #9
    whether the IPs of the internal machines are dynamic or static doesn't matter -- i'm talking about the IP address of the router. do you pay extra $$ to your ISP for a static IP?

    gotcha.
     
  9. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #10
    - Heart Break Kid

    If your router has the ability, set up a DMZ (Demilitarized Zone) for the Dell with the mp3's.

    A DMZ allows you to expose one IP address to the internet and since you don't appear to be runing a DHCP either on your LAN or WAN, this should work.

    However - beware of hackers.
     
  10. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #11
    it's a little unclear from his previous email, but i'm assuming HBK is exposing only his router to the internet, and not each machine.

    hey HBK -- what's the IP address of the dell machine?

    i don't think a DMZ is necessary here (not sure though), and you've already hinted at the security concerns of using one.
     
  11. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #12
    -zimv20

    Yes, I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been.

    In order for Heart Break Kid to share one IP address from the outside (WAN) to his internal machines (LAN), he'd need a Router, this we all know. The very nature of supporting such a gateway prevents access from the WAN side to any machine on the said LAN - only the IP address of the router is visible [to the outside].

    What a DMZ does, is that it allows one machine on the LAN side to be accessed from the WAN side, by allowing connection to that machines IP address.

    One thing I think we need clarity on from Heart Break Kid is he says he has"a full time internet connection and static IP for each computer on the network at home". That's great, but what is the source of the IP address he's been given from higher-up? If it's a DHCP server his Router is talking to, that will be difficult as the ISP will, most likely, have routers and gateways of their own. So the DMZ'ing would have to be done all the way through that ISP, and that may not be possible.

    I think the best he can do is to set up his router at home so that the Dell is a DMZ client, and keep hammering at the issue with the ISP. I doubt the ISP - if it is a broadband provider, will allow such a setup.
     
  12. AnotherMortal macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    Baltimore
    #13
    Stream Music from home

    Heartbreak kid, I believe you said you wanted to setup a streaming server for your MP3s. This would be the best solution, not SAMBA or FTP because with both you would need to download them first. Also, don't forget that there is probably a speed limitation on the upload portion of your always-on connection, so streaming might not give the best results either.

    For the Dell machine (assuming that is serving the music) install something like SHOUTcast Source Plug-in for Winamp and check the docs to find what port you need to open on your router to allow the Dell to serve the MP3s over the internet. Of course, anyone can listen in, I think, but if you don't go sharing your home IP address with everyone, you should be fine.

    Or, you could setup the router to only allow connections to the streaming server port from specific IP addresses or specific sets of IP addresses. (like all 172.16.x.x addresses)

    ---EDIT---
    Okay, just read the other thread you had on this. I guess you could mount the Dell drive as an SMB share (that can be accessed via SAMBA on the Mac) and do the same process as you did for the home machines, however, everytime you switch the song, I would suspect you would need to download it, or wait a bit for it to cache the song. SMB isn't particularly fast, and passing files over a network connection (unless its T1+ speeds) kinda sucks. I'd still recommend setting up a Shoutcast server.
     
  13. unc32 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    #14
    the easy answer. GET AN IPOD! then all the songs are with you. Or just store the music on the laptop that you want to listen to. You don't need every single song. just a few albums that you want.
     
  14. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #15
    oh my god

    this seems waaayyy over my head :(

    sooo complicateed lol. ok - im probably confusing u all by attempting to use computer lingo and screwing up what i mean. the IP adress for each one of the computers on my home network doesnt seem to change. the dell has only 1 IP adress and it seems to be the same one today as it has been for the last little while. The dell im refering to is the one with all the MP3's

    with regards to DHCP - im not sure what that is. All i know is when i go to the system prefs and network connection - the tab that says DHCP is clicked. I need it according to the apple store guy because otherwise airport cant log on to my home network (wireless).

    the only reason why i wanted to do this is to be able to stream my mp3s over and get access to some word docs on my dell while at school. That way i never have to worry if i forgot to print out a project at home - i can just do it on my PB from school.

    As for shoutcast - i tried playing around with iit a year or 2 ago and could never get it to work - i think i have to pay for it or something in order to broadcast. The thing with shoutcast is - dont my mp3s have to be playing on the dell? the way i want it set up is so i can have access to the files so that i can play whatever i feel like.

    i think if i get this to work this would definatly be another selling point on the mac - cuz i know of NO pc user who can access his desktop on his laptop from school :D

    very cool thingy to show off :D

    oh - the IP adresses - it seems that each computer has a different address - the first bunch of numbers are the same but the last 2 on each computer are different. i mean - they dont change over time but on computer A its always .34 and computer B its always .10

    dont get frustratted - i know im not clear - if you think ur gonna blow a gasket have a beer and tell me if u feel more or less angry ;)

    and I am using a cable modem hooked up to a wireless base station - does that count as a broad band setup? can i still use this DMZ?

    hmm - im gonna actually test this ftp out tonight

    what FREE ftp software should i check out that would allow me to use the DELL as the server and the MAC as a user who logs on?
     
  15. AnotherMortal macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    Baltimore
    #16
    Everything is suddenly becoming clearer

    If you want to access your files from home, use SAMBA, or FTP. I turn off access to my home machine via SAMBA, but use VNC (remote desktop) to connect to my work VPN, and then move files like that. I also have a broadband connection, and I am serious when I say transfering files via the internet is slow. Its not like downloading from a website because your upload speed is capped. So when you want to download from your home computers, you will be limited by the upload speed comcast (or whoever provides your cable modem) has set.

    What would probably work best is to setup VNC for desktop control, or XP's built-in remote desktop, and then setup an SMB share on the Dell, with a nice and long password, and use the OS X Connect to Server command.

    Connect to Server, when connecting to Windows shares(called SMB shares) invokes a SAMBA command, which is a reversed engineered utility for connecting to SMB shares from a unix/linux/OS X box.
     
  16. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #17
    hmm

    funny thing is - right now when i want to see files on my home network

    all i hit is ctrl k - and just type in the IP. this is while im at home. thats how i stream mp3s across. wouldnt it be possible then to do the same at school? just hit ctrl k - type in smb:// and then the IP? cuz thats what i do while at home
     
  17. ozubahn macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #18
    I don't know much about the Microsoft base station you referred to, but if yours is like most small home networks, you are using a broadband router with NAT (network address translation). The router in this case can be either a piece of hardware unto itself, or software running on one of your machines, but the effect is the same. Your router talks to your DSL modem or whatever, establishes a connection, and is given an IP address by your service provider. In most cases, your ISP only gives you one IP at a time, and you usually have to pay extra if you want the same (static) IP every time your modem connects (after power outages, etc, in the case of an always-on connection). This one IP is the only address visible to the outside world, and it represents all the machines on your home network. Therefore, all packets reaching your network have the same destination address, regardless of which of your machines they are actually meant to reach. It is up to your router to examine other information (port numbers and so forth) and determine the true destination machine. This process is called network address translation. Your router also provides a separate address to each machine on your network, typically in the 10.x.x.x range, that is only valid within your network, and is not visible from the outside.

    That's all nice if you want to surf the web from several machines in your home, but it gets in the way if you want to initiate a fresh connection from outside. Because only your router has a valid name, there is no good way to specify which machine you are interested in. That's where the DMZ host idea comes in. The DMZ feature associates your world-visible router IP with one, and only one, internal address. That means that your router essentially makes itself transparent to incoming connections, exposing the designated internal machine to the outside world. This is good, because it means that you can now connect to that machine using ftp, or samba, or whatever. It is also bad, because that machine is now even less well protected from the world of evil that lies beyond your router. There is another problem too. If you do not in fact have a static IP, then the world-visible address associated with your DMZ host can change at any time (whenever your ISP feels like it), so any bookmarks, links, etc to your machine may be unreliable. It may also be a small challenge to figure out what your IP address actually is.

    Sorry that explanation was a little long, but hopefully it helps some.
     
  18. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #19
    well ozu

    that just threw out my idea of being able to connect from school without doing or setting anything extra up. LOL. this is proving much more interesting then i had originally anticipated...

    ill play around with it for a bit
     
  19. ozubahn macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #20
    :) Sorry about that. The current state of home networking is a mess, with NAT and all sorts of competing hacks constantly breaking each other. By design, any TCP/IP host is supposed to be visible to any other, but unfortunately that's not practical because there aren't quite enough addresses to go around without faking some of them. This of course results in a big pain for anyone who doesn't want to spend their lives thinking about networks.

    So anyway, it isn't impossible, but you have to decide whether or not it is worth your trouble. If you need any help, please ask. :)
     
  20. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #21
    ok - i was just at the microsoft mac site
    and they have this thing called remote desktop connection for macs to connect to pc's. i downloaded it and tried to run it but i dont think my pc. has remote desktop conenctions enabled. does anyone know how i can enable it on my pc?
     
  21. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #22
    i got it to work

    i can access my pc desktop from my mac and all the files along with it
    i even tried runnign a winamp song on the pc while i was remotley controling it from the mac

    it worked great

    im impressed now
    surprised that m$ made somethin that actually worked :D
     
  22. Heart Break Kid thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #23
    update

    it doesnt work from school. i guess that whole DMZ thing is the problem - damn damn damn

    ahh welll - i will just have to shell out the 300 buks for an iPod. Its all good though...i spent 4g on a 17" powerbook - whats another 300 rite?

    :D
     

Share This Page