I have a question!

Discussion in 'Community' started by goldilocks88lnp, Aug 30, 2003.

  1. goldilocks88lnp macrumors newbie

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    #1
    Hello! I have a question....if somebody could either e-mail me at goldilocks88lnp@hotmail.com or just post a reply, that would be GREAT!!! My friend and I are having a HUGE debate about something....I was wondering if it was terribly offensive to use the term, "That's gay." Of course, I mean it's not relating to anybody that's gay at all. The sentence is merely being used to say, "That's stupid." And I am sure it's not directed or thought of as an insult to anybody that's gay....or at least it's not thought to be or meant to. So what I was wondering is if that really does offend anybody that's gay in any way! Thanks!!
     
  2. zach macrumors 65816

    zach

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    #2
    well, i am not gay, but i feel that that is an offensive thing to say.

    of course, my opinion doesn't really count, but i still feel that it is offensive.
     
  3. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

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    #3
    O.K., I'm not gay, so it doesn't really offend me, and I've been guilty of using this term before.

    However, if you think about it:

    No formal definition of 'gay' means stupid. The only non-sexual meaning is 'happy.'

    To say, that "That's gay"="That's stupid"

    is suggesting that the word "gay"="stupid" (by substracting "That's" from both sides).

    Now, it is known that "stupid"!="happy" (does not equal).

    On the other hand, the sexual terminology is often attached to a stigma. Therefore, it would seem that the use of "stupid" would refer to the sexual meaning of "gay."

    Thus, by calling something gay as in stupid, you are indirectly suggesting that homosexuality is stupid.

    As you can see by this quasi-proof, that phrase could be offensive to some.
     
  4. mnkeybsness macrumors 68030

    mnkeybsness

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    #4
    i used to hang out in a hall that had an RA in the dorms that was openly gay. he was a really cool guy and once someone wrote a note on his door in the middle of the night that said "i'm going to kill you, f---ing f-g" he was really upset about that and a few days after the incident i was talking to him about it and i just mentioned to him that i apologize if he ever takes offense to me saying "that's gay" because i meant it in no way against gay people...he told me that he completely understands and doesn't care about the word gay at all...especially because he calls everything gay constantly too.
     
  5. goldilocks88lnp thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #5
    thank you!

    Hey!

    Thanks for your reply! I have lost my bet.....I just don't see how the word relates in any way....because I don't feel like I have anything against people that are gay, and I am not using that word to offend them. It's like saying that by saying that's gay I'm insulting all the happy people too. *pout* I just don't get it!
     
  6. vniow macrumors G4

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    #6
    Replace the word 'gay' with some other minority group and see how it sounds, you wouldn't go off saying 'that's Jewish' for example would you?

    <-- is gay and offended when someone uses it as a replacement for stupid or lame or whatever.
     
  7. goldilocks88lnp thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #7
    vniow.....I am sorry that I have offended you! I did not in any way mean to!! I was just curious why people find that so offensive.....because I tend to say it a lot (with no thoughts against gay people) and my friend always yells at me.
     
  8. vniow macrumors G4

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    #8
    You didn't offend me, I was just stating my thoughts on the subject that is all.

    Cheers,

    -V

    Besides, you would've known if I was really offended, I can get rather bitchy.

    *giggles*
     
  9. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #9
    i'm gay, and like vniow, it offends me, quite a lot actually. mostly because people don't even think about saying it... that you guys discussed the meaning puts you above most heterosexual people. Evidently, ease of use negates the feelings of the few. I remember in HS it made me rather fearful of what would happen when i came out because of the frequency and sometimes viciousness of the words "gay" and "fag". like vniow said, you can't go around using minority terms like that, it'll get you in trouble one day...

    then again, i have gay friends that will call things "gay" just to fit in... so i guess it's all based on your personal comfort level. But many gay people stay quiet on the subject for fear of making waves...

    so basically, many of us would appreciate it if the word dropped out of conversation. but there are a lot worse forms of homophobia to deal with...

    pnw
     
  10. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #10
    *shocked*

    seriously, a bitchy lesbian, what will they think of next? ;)

    pnw
     
  11. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #11
    I have heard that very sentence in the hallways of my own highschool and heard firsthand accounts of those with similar auditory experiences.

    Just because you dont think it is likely to happen, doesnt mean it wont.

    Getting back to the original question as hand.....

    It depends who you ask; someone who is a staunch supporter of overt unnecessary political correctness, or someone who isn't.

    I personally have no qualms with its usage, since when used in the context i'm sure you're implying, it has no reference to disparaging homosexuals.

    Its a topic that has been debated over and over again, hell it was even a subject of the 'gay' thread, well, when i joined into the fray.

    In my humble, moderate opinion, I think using the term 'that's gay' is fine, since it is main intent is not to disparage homosexuals.

    Unlike the term ******, which is also a bundle of wood.

    -tazo
     
  12. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #12
    haha, I hope you get flammed for that!

    :p

    I only say the word gay in refernce to someone that is or something that is worn/done by homosexual people.

    Exp: Someone I know, who is that way was wearing flaming pants...

    What expression did I use...?

    That one, he thought of it in good taste. :D
     
  13. vniow macrumors G4

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    #13
    [​IMG]

    It is indirectly, see themadchemist's post above for what I'm talking about. Anytime you use the word gay as a substitute for stupid you are indirectly saying that homosexuality is stupid since gay = homosexual in this culture no matter what the dictionary definition says it is.


    Yes it is.

    Which also means homosexual male in this culture, much like one of the dictionary definitions for the word gay is happy. You have to look at the context which the word its used in and the culture in which you say it.

    If you're so offended by people using the word Jew as a deragatory term I better not catch you using the word gay as one.

    Its not unnececarry political correctness which you so happily dismiss the ease of use of using the word gay as a substitute for something deragatory, for many of us its incredibly offensive because of the rampant homophobia out there, saying gay instead of stupid doesn't help that one bit.
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #14
    vniow, that's so niggardly.

    ;)

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    When in doubt, replace any such generic "insult," however lightheartedly meant, with another minority group and see if you'd repeat it surrounded by a group of those particular people and you'll know instantly whether it's cool to say or not.

    BTW, I heard an old HR manager use the phrase "trying to Jew us out of a dollar" and was dumbfounded as to how the person in charge of hiring could openly express such racism in front of people whose ethnic background she wasn't sure of.

    But she was dumb and dumb people will naturally find it acceptable to "innocently" insult others because everyone should know they don't mean any harm or something. :rolleyes:
     
  15. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #15
    I never said i was offended by its usage [thats jewish].

    Personally I am tired of the commandeering of regular words by homosexuals.

    Queer used to be a word in a literary sense that had a certain rythym and feel to it; now i cannot use the word without inviting the momentary thought that i am referring to homosexuals.

    Same for ****** for a description of a bundle of wood.
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #16
    If you were Jewish you just might be. Some people have built political careers on the fact that most people don't get offended when you insult Jews. Ask the ADL.

    Are you serious? [assuming you are]

    Damn those fags (aka cigarettes to me) for taking our language away! They just love being called names and adopt them as their own!!

    Open your friggin' mind a little. The English language is full of words that are spelled or sound alike and I and thousands of others manage to navigate and use the word queer and fag in both contexts.

    Seriously, when's the last time you were looking for a word to describe a bundle of sticks and were disappointed that ****** was "taken?" Nearly no one uses the word anymore in its regular context, and no one should use it as an insult, either.

    Goddamned homosexual community for stealing our very not gay language. You can't even say "ass pirate" anymore without people straight away thinking you're talking about gays... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: <--- [these eyes don't roll far up enough to express my sarcastic disgust]
     
  17. vniow macrumors G4

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    #17
    Oh no, those PC bastards with all their gay agendas are trying to turn everyone on to their little cult!

    Thank you so much Jerry Fallwell (or Micheal Savage?) for opening our eyes to the homosexual agenda that liberals are pushing on our innocent children, why there won't be hardly any children left in a couple hundred years because they'll all be gay and everybody knows that gays can't have kids!

    Its PC madness I tell you, madness!
     
  18. vniow macrumors G4

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    #18
    Nice one, never heard it before. (although I'm partial to "rug-muncher" myself)
     
  19. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #19
    Yes. These words were meant for the *very not gay* population to use as insults for the gay population, and you all had the nerve to take them as your own!!!

    Next thing you know, you'll be telling each other that God hates you and planting nail bombs inside your own nightclubs just to take the fun away from the *very not gay* crowd. Why can't you just get your own favorite pasttimes?
     
  20. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #20
    I Hate when people use gay to mean stupid/synonyms of stupid....

    I think it is very disrespectful, and is a huge pet peeve of mine. Its a real turn off to me too... If I just met someone and they say something like: "oh my god..... starbucks raised the price of so-and-so by 39 cents.... that's gay" I would immediately think much less of them.

    It just seems very disrespectful to me, mainly because of the connections that it makes to gay people.

    Homosexuality = gay and gay = stupid

    so (by the transitive property ;))

    homosexuality = stupid.

    Well that is very obvious and I don't really need to explain it, but it just seems very disrespectful to me.... I don't call anybody stupid to their face unless they have done something that is deserving of such an insult - so for people to just dish out that kind of insult without even thinking about it is ignorant, immature, and rude.

    Its a big pet peeve of mine.... ;)

    scem0
     
  21. Danger! Will macrumors regular

    Danger! Will

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    #21
    i dont like it when people say "That's gay"
    You don't hear gay people walking around saying "thats straight"
    oh yeah HELLO VNIOW
     
  22. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #23
    1. I am jewish, yet i am not offended...

    2. I cannot stop laughing at how asinine the original question was; why come to a mac-oriented website to ask a political question? especially when the site is tolerant of people's views, as long as they go along with the different agendas people push

    3. I have never personally had a need to use the term ****** for a bundle of wood; not that there is truly a need to ever use the term bundle of wood. ever. for whatever reason. I used the term ******, to describe a bundle of wood to add more credibility to my statement; like the way people add a link to the san francisco chronicle to back their statements up.

    4. Do we really have to bring Michael Savage into every damn argument that becomes even slightly politically-oriented? Is it really necessary to sling *that* mud in *that* face? Honestly I thought the majority of MR users were mature enough to not depend on the useless political backbone phrase known as "so what, your a conservative"

    5.1 The amount of hypocritical statements in this thread amaze me to no end. On one hand [or any other part of your body incase you happen to have lost 2 hands], you have people complaining about how the usage of 'thats gay' or 'thats jewish' is offensive; yet two members have found it not only apropos, but tasteful to describe terms like "rug muncher', and 'ass pirate' to the average community discussion-viewing macrumors.com

    do i really need to go on? i think i do.

    5.2 This brings me to my next point, people are ok with political correctness as long as it is in their best interest, and does not inconvenience them in any way.

    Queer; gay; ******; those were all words that all originally meant something very different from their assumed usage nowadays. That was what i was referring to when i first mentioned them.
    There is no removenormalwordsforgayusagecounterparts-conspiracy,
    however the fact remains that I cannot use the word queer anymore without being called a homophobe. However I digress...

    Which leads me to my conclusion:

    That's not gay.

    -tazo
     
  23. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #24
    for the record, you guys gave us words like "fag", "gay", "queer", "fairy", basically every word. All we've done is systematically embrace the words to take away their power, exactly what other minority groups have done. I don't think it's fair to accuse gay people of commandeering words, when the words are thrust on us.

    and none of us are objecting when a word is used in it's proper form-- i've yet to hear a gay person accuse a brit of being homophobic for using "fag" for cigarette, or "that's queer" in it's common literary sense. But when you take the words and target a group of people with them, using an alternate definition, there is a problem.

    i'm about the least politically correct person you'll meet. i don't see this as having anything to do with being PC... it's basic politeness, someone shouldn't have to be political to think of another's feelings. what a sad world it is when hatefilled words are only incorrect in a political sense, not a humanitarian one.

    pnw
     
  24. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    #25
    paul,

    are you familiar with the word '*****'?

    Blacks [especially black comedians, teenagers] have taken to using the word ***** as a friendly term, almost in the same boat as 'friend'.

    Yet its only friendly if stated by a black individual.

    Should a white person use the word, regardless of its moot reference to an aged topic not even in existence nowadays, its considered disparaging and moreover racist.

    How can using a word like fag, or *****, in a daily sense be taking away the power, if people still claim the words have power?
     

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