i want a draft

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #1
    i want a national draft for the purpose of getting iraqi troop levels to what General Shinseki estimated was needed, several hundred thousand, to actually accomplish our goals in iraq.

    i want a lottery system for this draft with no exemptions.

    i want a camera on the bush twins for their reaction whenever each month's lottery results are posted.

    i want an apology from bush, rove, rumsfeld, cheney, rice and powell for the mess they've gotten us into.

    i want a promise from bush and rumsfeld that the draft will be used only for iraq and no further "adventures."

    i want a promise from bush, rumsfeld, cheney, rice, hadley and especially rove that when their terms are over they will go into hiding and never surface again.

    i want the american people, especially those who supported the iraq war, to know what it means to put people in harm's way. i want them to know that this is the price of cheap oil, jingoism and overreaction.

    i want bush to read everything i wrote about iraq in 2003, come to my house, and tell me i was right.
     
  2. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #2
    This is just silly. Quit whining and win an election.
     
  3. faintember macrumors 65816

    faintember

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    #3
    How about you go over there and fight, if you feel so strongly about it. Just join up and go. A draft will not help the problem. How would forcing people to go fight in Iraq help? Especially with your idea of the lottery system, which would force people that are otherwise incapable of fighting, to go and fight. I am sure that would create an wonderful fighting force.

    The day this country invokes a draft based on an lottery with no exemptions is the day i move to Canada.
     
  4. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #4
    I'm going to dinner so I won't be able to respond to the hailstorm of angry liberals.

    All I'm saying is that when you win elections, you can go and do all that stuff you listed in the OP. But until then... keep wishing... In the words of Bush I "not gonna do it." :D
     
  5. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #5
    you're missing my point. the forces fighting in iraq are disproportionately minority. only about half a dozen congressmen have kids fighting in iraq.

    this war is being fought by some on the behalf of others. are there any bush / cheney / rumsfeld / rice / wolfowitz / rove kids fighting this war? not to my knowledge.

    if we're truly in this together, then let's let everyones kids fight it, regardless of race, social stature or political connections.

    i hear all the time about how people "support the troops." i feel they're understaffed, underarmored and underappreciated. what better way for the war to hit home than to make all kids of fighting age eligible? what better way to honor the fallen than to actually do what we've set out to do? the 130,000 or so troops we've got there can't even secure the road to the baghdad airport, much less the entire country. they're shorthanded and recruitment is down. to "stay the course" is folly and näive. our options are to either withdraw or do it right. a draft is the only way to do the latter. let's be responsible.
     
  6. faintember macrumors 65816

    faintember

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    #6
    67% of the US pop listed is of legal fighting age, so if we do the math: 198,141,869 people of fighting age... 67,742,879 in the armed forces...it is 34%

    34% of the US is in the Armed Forces. We have plenty of military people. We need better strategies.

    Population Numbers/Percentages from link

    I hope my math is right! Lots going on in my apt right now!
     
  7. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    i'm not following. you're saying that 34% would be eligible for the draft and that makes them a part of the armed forces?

    why did you delete the bit about 1.1% of congress having kids in iraq? i thought that was an interesting take.

    i'll submit that, because they're the "leaders" who voted for the war in the first place, they should lead by example and send their kids first. i would respect the hell out of that.
     
  8. faintember macrumors 65816

    faintember

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    #8
    The congress % was deleted b/c it didnt fit into my argument. I have to strengthen my propaganda, dont i?

    The 34% is the US pop that is over age 18 to age 65, which according to my calculations (and they may be wrong!) that is currently in the armed forces.

    We voted for the leaders though...
     
  9. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #9
    Unfortunately, Heb is right. The majority of Americans voted for Bush, knowing what his policy was. Maybe if there had been a draft, Bush wouldn't have won, but that's neither here nor there. The fact that the Democrats can't come up with a convincing counter-argument to "kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out" is frustratingly pathetic. Even the people who believe in the war should at least believe in fighting it to win.

    BTW, my girlfriend came in, saw the title of the thread and said, "You know, I've always wanted to be Canadian." :D
     
  10. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    The CIA world factbook says that 67m people are eligible to be in the armed forces, based upon their gender and age range. It doesn't say that there are 67m people in the army! More like 900k.

    I think the war's stupid, but I wouldn't compound the stupidity with a draft. No civilized country has a draft nowadays except for Israel and Singapore I believe. And we don't need a draft, the only reason we don't have plenty of volunteers now is because even dumb 18 year old males realize that Iraq's a quagmire and a killing field for American soldiers, and they don't want to be a part of that.
     
  11. faintember macrumors 65816

    faintember

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    #12
    Ok corrected, i miss understood in my haste for finding real numbers. :p

    Either way it isnt man-power, but tactics that are needed.

    I shouldnt have even posted in the first place. Thoughts of a draft get me to riled up to think straight.

    Thanks tristan for the info, and for correcting me!
     
  12. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #13
    What does this all have to do with Democrat vs Republican?

    I took zim's point to fall in line with the very reasonable and un-partisan opinion that at this point, the US needs to (a) pull out of Iraq, or (b) if it wishes to stay, bloody well fight properly. This involves putting your money where your mouth is, and as an Administration it involves a clear admission of the realistic sacrifices that must be made, a game-plan that honors these efforts, and accountability and inquiry as to the motives and policies that move the "war" forward. It also calls on the media and politicos to tone down their rhetorical sparring so we may honestly debate points in this matter on merit.

    Whether the Democrats would've got us into this mess under Gore/Kerry is largely irrelevant in my mind. As is the relative inability of the Democratic party to mount a political alternative plan.

    I feel the choice, echoed by those in Government on the left and the right, is get out or get it out, so to speak.

    Zim's suggestions accord for the latter. An unpopular war demands some transparency, and some accountability to regain credibility in a democratic country.

    The serious consideration of a draft, due the potential scope it would have over our lives as citizens, necessarily fosters attention to the issue, active civic participation, and a serious appraisal of costs and priorities.

    Isn't that a good thing? It never need happen, but we could do worse than to assume it will.
     
  13. TheMonarch macrumors 65816

    TheMonarch

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    #14
    Tha'd be really dumb. Some of us don't believe the reason we're at war, let alone go and fight for it. I say you join. Tell us how it goes.
     
  14. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    b'fox has got it right. and nice to see you around again.

    i didn't support the war either, but i'd like us, as a country, to take responsibility for our ill-planned occupation. one people, united. i think it's high time for such unity. bush, despite his grandiose claims of being a uniter, is anything but.

    i want the american people to take responsibility for finishing the job. the administration sure isn't.
     
  15. vniow macrumors G4

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    #16
    WHOOSH!!

    That was the sound of the point of this thread going over most of these poster's heads.
     
  16. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #17
    that's why i say we do need a draft, assuming we want to raise troop levels to the point where we can actually finish the job in iraq, plus to relieve the overextended troops we're currently using.
     
  17. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #18
    Before we start drafting people, I think it would be better to improve the incentives for volunteers to join. One thing we learned in Vietnam is that draftees who don't want to be there make lousy soldiers... far better to pay double or triple for someone who wants to be there.
     
  18. faintember macrumors 65816

    faintember

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    #19
    Well, since you are already enlightened, why don't you fill everyone else in?
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    You know what? Stop it with your "liberal" crap. I'm sick of it. You are so full of it. Contribute something meaningful or don't contribute at all. You still maintain that anyone trying to get answers about this silly war is liberal. Not the case, as I've pointed out to you before. My relatives, all conservatives, are really angry that their kids are over there for reasons that still have yet to materialize.
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Oh- we have to get someone better than Bush soon. Otherwise, we're sunk.
     
  21. dornoforpyros macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

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    #22
    and I want a cold six pack waiting for me in the fridge every friday when i get home from work, but we don't always get what we want :rolleyes:
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    :)
     
  23. TheMonarch macrumors 65816

    TheMonarch

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    #24

    Hey hey, be gentile, we MR people know better than that :)
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    You're right. Sorry ;)
     

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