IBM + Apple = Dethrone MS

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by imaswitcheryeah, Feb 4, 2003.

  1. imaswitcheryeah macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #1
    IBM is HUGE.

    Apple is small, yet huge in our hearts.
    I love Apple. They are headed in the right direction. I feel they are the best computer company for the personal computing world. The majority of people I meet say, "Why do you have a Mac? Don't they suck? That's what I heard..." I feel so sorry for that person when they say that to me. I just want to put my arm around them, take them on a walk, and say, "Let me tell you a story..." I don't need to go on with that story because all of you who are going to read this know exactly what I'm talking about. It's crazy because, as you can see, I am a switcher. I switched in Aug. '02. I bought a brand new MDD 867, .mac, and Apple Technician Training. I've always loved computers. My family was a little late getting on the pc bandwagon by my standards. I had a few neighbors who had that new "Macintosh" computer way before we had anything. I had a Windows PC since 3.1. Ironically, the last PC I used while I lived at home was an IBM Aptiva. You'll see why that's ironic in a minute.

    We all want Apple to gain market share. We all want everyone to envy Apple. We all want everyone to want a Mac. I see the majority Windows computers as, let's say, the Hyundai's of the PC world(especially the entry-level ones), and the Macs are a nice fleet of, well, anything luxury. Man, what would Apple be like today if things were different? What if Apple became what MS is today? What would the computing world be like? In my opinion, I'm sure it would be farther ahead than it is now. Apple is struggling to move ahead to where they want to be because they don't have enough of the market share. They can't lower their prices because they wouldn't be able to make enough profit. I'm not any sort of analyst, but that looks to be the case.

    So, yeah, IBM is HUGE.
    IBM wasn't making any money in the pc market because of those "friendly" company's called Gatecrap and Smell, or something. So, they ditched that. Poor Aptiva's!:( I thought they were alright..... at the time.;) So, IBM sticks to the enterprise market. Which I think was good, because to me, and a lot of other people, IBM just felt like they should cater to the enterprise. They just didn't seem so, well, "friendly". [Enter Gategay and Dull.] There are a lot of profits to be made catering to the enterprise, but that of course is not the entire computing industry. IBM can still be a big part of the consumer market. What company could help them do that? What company can help Apple come out of this ho-hum-slum? Ah, finally... I am getting to my point!!

    IBM + Apple = Dethrone MS
    Ahhh, the 970. If it lives up to the hype, what could this mean? If the 970 is a huge hit, it could mean what I have been trying to get to this whole post. IBM might see that if they invest more money into making great processors that Apple can use, you know, that whole PowerPC thing, then IBM and Apple could have a great relationship. A relationship that will boost Apple's market share, bring IBM back into the consumer game (sort of) and start to get people to finally see that Apple doesn't suck.

    All I hear about is Ghz, Ghz, Ghz... Intel is up to 3.06Ghz, and the G4 is trying to squeeze out what it could just to reach 2Ghz. COME ON!! Is Motorola losing money on trying to make PowerPC's for Apple? Do they feel putting money into their processors isn't going to get them anywhere? I mean, Motorola isn't as big as IBM. That is quite obvious. So, am I too far off to predict that Motorola is ditching the PowerPC and leaving it up to BigBlue? Hopefully it's just the economy and Motorola wants to stick with it, just not right now.

    The 970 is going to start at around, 2Ghz? (please correct me if I am wrong) Granted it's 64-bit, but will a 2Ghz G5 (if they do decide to call the 970 the new "G") really grab some attention from the other side? What's it gonna take? I feel it's gonna take a lot more. Granted I hope it wont have to but, it's gonna be hard to convert the Windoze world.

    (gonna get a little off topic here...)
    The "Switch" Ad Campaign
    Great idea, but it's gonna take more. Apple can do a lot better things than this friggin' "Switch" crap. I didn't switch because of those ad's. I switched because I saw that Apple has better computers, and better a OS (to be honest, I am not a fan of 9, and X was a major factor in my switch). But what about those people that aren't like me? When I say "like me", I mean the people who can see the difference of the details of the componets. All those people see is what they see!!! The OS.

    Apple needs to put their OS in their commercials. Looprumors put this same idea in their iBall column like a week or a few weeks ago. Apple needs to show these "switchers" actually using OS X and pointing out what they love about it that Windoze couldn't do. Why not point out that the interface is BEAUTIFUL. Everything is so flowing because of Quartz Extreme. Like I said, it's a step in the right direction. Making the OS more pleasing to use, makes more people see that computers are our friends. They're here to help. I wish Looprumors didn't change its iBall every monday. There were some really good points for those of you who didn't see it. Another great idea would be if Apple produced an infomercial. How awesome would it be to see a half-an-hour long commercial all about the greatest computer company in the world?!? I think it would be great, especially if they had people doing the usual stuff, but better because of Apple's ingenuity and grace in the OS. Show professionals and their app of choice. Show how those professionals would never even think about using anything else other than a Power Mac because of it's speed and expandability. Here's something I would LOVE to see. Ever minimized a window while holding down shift? Slow-motion genie effect!! Now THAT'S something that will get an idea in the head's of the Windozed. Even though it's completely useless to productivity, or ANYTHING for that matter, I think that's a total attention grabber. Can anyone tell me WHY Apple put that into the OS? It's awesome, but WHY THE HELL DID THEY DO THAT? Probably that crazy Steve Jobs' idea!:D

    Conclusion
    So, my post wasn't completely about how I think IBM and Apple need to strengthen their relationship. My rambling has let me put out a few things I would love to see discussed and discuss with all of you. I also value everyone's opinion in this MacRumors disscusions board as I feel you all are the ones who can help me learn more about this wonderful company called Apple. ("Need more INPUT!" - Johnny 5) I check the rumors sites everyday because I am so excited. I am excited for the personal computer world to change for the better. Apple is what's going to do that. It may take longer than we all hope, but it's inevitable. We all know it.

    Hopefully, this thread will go a long way. Most of all, I hope that most of you out there will at least post one reply, something like what I have done, where you just ramble on about why you love Apple, why you care so much, and what you want to see happen for the benefit of Apple, computers, the industry, and electronics.

    To anyone who actually read my entire post:
    Thank you.
     
  2. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2001
    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #2
    Oh my.

    SWEET JESUS. I think I'll just print that out and read it during the day. (I live for the darkness).

    i'll post here when i finish.:rolleyes:
     
  3. macphoria macrumors 6502a

    macphoria

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2002
    #3
    I'm sort of reiterating what previous post mentioned. But I believe Apple has tough road up ahead.

    First, speed of computer matters. Efficiency is everything in doing work. And to most people, this efficiency of a computer is represented by Mhz or Ghz. Even Apple took advantage of this by ad campaigns few years ago saying how G4 500Mhz (If I remember correctly) was the fastest desktop there is. But of course things have been different since then, with Intel and AMD rivalry driving up the clockspeed while Motorola sat on their butts not to mention pathetic production that constantly delayed shipping of their chips. From what I've read on number of sites, if IBM 970 chip does indeed become new Mac processor it will start around 2Ghz. In most people's eyes, this will not be good enough. Intel and AMD will most likely be approaching 4Ghz by then. Yes, the processors that Apple put in their machines are more effective devices, but that factor becomes negligible when PC processors use brute power to compete and attract not so computer savy consumers with clockspeed numbers. If sales person were trying to sell a computer to an average Joe, 64bit IBM chip in a Mac running 2Ghz will not sound attractive compared to 32bit Intel chip running 4Ghz simply because of the speed numbers. I don't know how this gap will be closed, but it is not looking good.

    Second, price matters. PC's can be purchased in fraction of a cost for Macs. Based on this fact alone, PC products range from lower class item to yuppie upper class luxury item while Apple products remain in yuppie or well-to-do class (or even I-will-sell-my-organs-for-new-powerbooks class) which is dwarfed in comparison to rest of the population. Therefore more PC will end up being sold than Macs. But in this arena, Apple has been showing signs that it acknowledges this issue, at least in consumer line of Macs, by dramatically lowering prices recently, though not necessarily the professional lines. But it will still be tough to sell Macs to people who will rather save few bucks for mediocre computers instead of spending extra bucks for advanced quality product.

    However,

    all this is good for us Mac users because Apple will continue to innovate in order to stand its ground and attract new users. And sooner or later when computers become even greater part of our daily lives (I can't imagine how, but I'm sure someone will come up with something), people will learn to appreciate quality over other factors and perhaps then Apple will take back its share from MS and PC world.

    (I wish next G5 or 970 or whatever comes out with some astronomical clockspeed. Maybe instead of 2 Ghz, 2 Thz (Tera hz). Yea, that would definitely turn things around. That would be cool. The Gaussian Blur in Photoshop will be done the moment I click the button! Heck, it will be done even before I press the button! It will be so advanced, it will read my mind ahead and do it before instructed! Prophetic PreEmtive Tasking! Wow. Ok, I think I've stayed up too late.)
     
  4. AmigaMac macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    #4
    imaswitcheryeah...

    ...well said!

    :cool:

    I also want to see Apple and IBM take down the darkside!
     
  5. Raiden macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    #5
    huh...what? Did you just call yourelf a homo pcclone?

    Anyway, my fear is that the 970 will rule all for a year or so, but then intel will come out with the P5 or whatever, and it will once again become the king of processors. And then we will be right back where we are today, in second place....:( My reasoning is if (a big IF) the 970 becomes a major sucess, its not like wintel is going to sit by idoly falling to second place, they will fight back.

    BTW, I heard that the P4 wont get any farther than 3.5 Ghz in 03'. This is a good year to catch up apple....
     
  6. TheMightyG macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Location:
    Boston
    #6
    I would love to see Apple ads ending with a little "Powered by IBM" in the bottom corner. That would get the switchers a runnin'....
     
  7. imaswitcheryeah thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #7
    macphoria...

    You're exactly right! People aren't going to notice the difference that much when the 970 comes out. It makes me wonder how Apple is going to market the 970. Are they going to say, "Introducing the New PowerMac, with dual 64-bit IBM PowerPC 970 processors"? I would be very suprised if they did. That's why I think they might just call it the new G5 because that what everyone is expecting next. You are also totally right in how by the the time the 970 hits the shelfs, Intel very well could have P5's and AMD could have 3500+'s (or even the Hammer, which could be even worse!)

    People do need to see that Apple is a higher quality product. That is what will take back some market share sooner than anything else, and I feel the "Switch" campain is not doing that. I have a friend who just bought a 14" iBook as his first computer because me and another Mac-head friend convinced him to. He was playing a game on it when it froze, went black, and the sleep light started pulsating. He called me knowing I'm training to be an Apple tech., so I went over his house to help him out. The only thing we could do to make it turn off and then start it up again was take out the battery. Afterwards, as I was leaving he said, "Aren't Macs supposed to be crash-proof, like, isn't that their whole thing?" I had to tell him that no computer is 100% crash-proof, it's just that Macs are tons more stable than Windows, and that if he had a Windows, he would have had a lot more problems. So, thats why I also think the "switch" ads are kicking themselves. If someone switches based on those commercials, the moment anyone has a problem, they are going to be very upset because the ads told them, "IT JUST WORKS"..... and at the moment, it's not working.

    They need to show people the quality of the hrdware and software, and stop telling everyone that Macs are 100% crash-proof because thats what most of these "Switch" ads are telling them.
     
  8. Macpoops macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Location:
    PA
    #8
    Unlike the Motorola, IBM will actually use their desktop processors in their own machines. Unless IBM decides to drop their enterprise desktops the 970 will actually get updated pretty regularly. Honestly Why does Moto care how many computers Apple and Amiga are selling? They already got their money when they sold them the chip. Now IBM sells the chips to apple and makes some for itself and all of a sudden they are making profit on 2 fronts with even more money getting dumped into R&D on the chip side. I see this as a win-win situation for both companies.
     
  9. djbombjack macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Location:
    Crooklyn, NY
  10. hvfsl macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #10
    Talking to a lot of people with Windows and Linux, the only reason they will get a Mac is if someone gives them for free, or if Apple releases Mac OS X so people can install it on PC hardware. That is the only way now Apple will ever get more than 10% of market. More people make there own computers or have a computer made for them than buy one from someone like Dell or Apple. In 2001 65% of computers were made by the owner or made by someone the owner knew.

    None of the Windows or Linux people I know want a Mac at the moment because they are too slow compared the PCs they use. The 970s will not solve Apple's problems because Apples will still cost a lot more than PCs and have lower specs.
     
  11. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #11
    actually, only a few of us. about 10%.

    i definitely like what you said in your original post switcher-- tho i'm not so sure they're going to overtake MS anytime soon... that will take MS ineptitude, when the company is finally too big and collapses in on itself. we're already seeing the first signs of it happening. But the 970 or G5, whichever we wind up with, should make apple's marketshare double or triple in a very short time-- i think there's a lot of people just waiting for the speed to catch up, whether they know it or not--

    :)
    pnw
     
  12. MacQuest macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Location:
    You See Dead People...
    #12
    Project "Marklar". Mac OS X on x86 processors. Rumored to be released next year [as it's own retail product, not that Apple is going to start selling x86 machines] when MS consumer dissatisfaction falls to an all time low. MS will implement Palladium and Intel will implement LaGrande[?] technologies which together will further infringe on consumer rights. DRM [Digital Rights Management] will be favored by the A/V industry exec's and copyright activists, but will drive consumers, they're largest customer base, away. As for those industries and their producers/editors, guess which computer manufacturer produces the preferred platform for both audio & video/film production and editing...[hint: rhymes with "chapel"]

    Hello Switchers!!

    You don't see this happening? Ask yourself why Apple is quickly ridding itself of any MS dependance. Safari replaces IE, Keynote replaces Powerpoint, new version of AppleWorks [or whatever name and in whichever form it materializes] replaces MS Word and Excel, Outlook is replaced by Apple's iCal, Address Book, and Mail.

    This is the Path To War.

    The number hovers around 5% by Apple's own estimation, and 3-4% by other users. Of course these numbers are from before the Apple Store and "Switcher" ad campaign success'.


    This may be the case in the U.K. [although I doubt it], but I am sure it is not the case here in the US. We are a society built on convenience, hence the success of fast food chains. My point? We may have better, less expensive food in the refrigerator at home, but we'll still go get something outside whether or not we're time constrained.

    The HUGE success of the original iMac, as well as the current model, is attributed to simplicity. Take it home, plug in the power cord, internet connection, keyboard & mouse, and that's it.

    Push the power button and it JUST WORKS.

    This proves that it's not whether you can do something, it's whether or not you will. Not everyone will upgrade their computers just because they can. Often times, they'll just go get a new one.

    Apple found that consumers didn't want to do much more to their computers than, maybe, add ram and recently, add a wireless network card, which are the only two things a user can internally upgrade on these models. Peripherals can be added, AS NEEDED, externally via USB or FireWire.

    This, along with it's small footprint, is what makes the iMac line even more attractive than towers to the average non-tech user. SIMPLICITY.

    Have you been following the moves that Apple has made in the past month in terms of price cut's and product offerings? They are hardly "a lot" more for what you get.

    I realize you may not see this in the UK because there are no Apple Stores yet, but consumers here in the US are quickly being educated at these conveniently located locations on the fact that more megahertz is not as essential to them as is RELIABILITY [Apple quality control over the hardware & the OS] and FUNCTIONALITY [ex., iLife].

    If they want to play video games, they'll opt to go buy a dedicated game console.

    Sure, you and I may want the biggest, baddest computers the same way a race car driver wants the fastest car, but what's the point if that race car driver only uses that car on the local roads and highways?

    I would rather give up some unneeded speed in return for amenities I could actually use.
     
  13. yosoyjay macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Location:
    Canada
    #13
    I don't think IBM would use PPC in their own computers. IBM makes PPC now, but you don't see any G3s in their notebooks. What OS would it ship with? I guess it could ship with a Suse version of Linux, but I really doubt it.
     
  14. Macpoops macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Location:
    PA
    #14
    Right now IBM uses PPC in some of their workstations and alot of their enterprise equipment. They run AIX which is a IBMs house linux from what i understand. The laptops comsumers buy are x86 and run windows.
     
  15. benixau macrumors 65816

    benixau

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #15
    IBM uses alot of PPC chips. right now it is mainly in the server end and they are those big power4 chips.

    when the 970 comes out you will see a lot more usage of PPC from IBM. not in there windows based machines (duh!) but in the *nix machines.

    also like Macpoops said, money on two fronts.
     
  16. macphoria macrumors 6502a

    macphoria

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2002
    #16
    No more G4 variants, PLEASE!

    MacRumors just posted a rumor about possibility of upcoming G4 variant, MPC 7457 with speed ranging from 867 to 1833 Mhz and also 512k L2 and 4Mb L3 Cache. All I can say is...

    Enough with G4 already!!!

    Those specs are impressive indeed. 512k L2 and 4MB L3 Cache will definitely contribute to better performances. But I've had (same goes for many of us, I'm sure) enough of G4 variants. My first experience with G4 was Power Mac Dual G4 500mhz. Several years later when I upgraded, it was still G4 (Quicksilver). I really hope Apple does not drag us loyal Mac users around with yet another version of G4 this year. It is time to move on. It is time for G5 or IBM 970 or whatever mystery chip that is capable of competing with Intel and AMD.
     
  17. Sabenth macrumors 6502a

    Sabenth

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #17
    as a None mac person but soon to be new mac person i am not famliar with the whole apple and ibm and motorola thing but what i am famliar with is like the first post stated windows pc user love computers take great pride in the fact that i bulit my own system to my own specs and had what i thought was a fantastic supper fast system ERRR WRONG!!! any hows pcs are fine its the os thats chucked on them in other words MY **** or Microsoft to you mac users out there. I HAVE HAD ENOUGH FLOUNDERING AROUND MR GATES its taken me a long long time to save up for my new mac which araives in a weeks time yipieeeeeeeee it maybe a 17 inch i mac lacking a dual processor but at least i know i can use the dam thing After exstensive testing in the local mac store i came to the conclustion of the fact that the mac was right for me i love music i love making videos of my baby daughter to send to family over seas and at last i can do it with out worring about wether my os can handel a single buffer of video before it claps out and gose F**&! U i aint doing that

    anything that gets apple up to the level of MS Then bloody hell i am all for it I would hope to see that apple dont change there whole idea of world domanation either i mean lets face it if they were to go down the same street as ms then well we all know the out come of this dont we......... i know that this post has not mentioned much about the orginal post but hell i am becoming a mac user and for once i dont care what my pc mates think either at least i know i aint gona get lumped with a stale beige box thank christ for that............
     

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