iBook, Powerbook Specs?

[AndrewMT]

Im Pro Apple all the way but if I were in the market for a Centrino notebook this would be my current pick...

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/notebooks/product.cfm?ProductType=3760

Damn that thing is ugly. I think I will wait for G5 PBs and go for a Sony TR3 sub-notebook right now.

TR3

 

[jnasato]

This time, it feels like a lot of people are actually expecting updated iBooks and PowerBooks tomorrow/later today, as the recent other updates have been nice. I just hope Apple surprises us with something better than expected, or else there'll be a long thread of replies along the lines of, "A modest speed bump? APPLE SUCKS!"

I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[AndrewMT]

Consider the $4.5 billion CASH Apple has sitting in the bank.

Good for Apple. But where do you think that money came from?

Apple customers.

Doesn't matter how much Apple spends on R&D vs. what you think Dell or any other company spends on R&D. The bottom line is simple: Even with Apple's R&D investment, the company has managed to pile away $4.5 billion -- all the while being more expensive $ to $ than any computer on the market.

Does anyone who makes this argument even know what Dell, for example, pays on R&D?

Duh! Those witty Dell interns do all their R&D for free. I just love those guys.

 

[porovaara]

b) it's quite likely that a 1.3-1.5 Ghz G4 could not feed a 128 MB graphics card anyway. You'd be paying for a card that you couldn't really use, just so you could say you had it.

The graphics bus has nothing to do with cpu speed. My alBook ends up starved for memory on the 64meg card quite often when using dual displays. In addition exposé chews through video memory like crazy.

In other words any recent mac could benefit from a video card with lots of memory.

 

[brhmac]

Apple could address this problem very easily

So for people like me who love the 12" form factor, why can't I get a 1.25 gigahertz processor. It is not like the powerbooks where bigger means more powerful (Like, who else is going to want a 17" powerbooks except someone doing video editing in the filed or something...the only people who are going to want a 14" ibook are people with strained eyes..)

Exactly. There is no real differentiation between the 12-inch iBook and the 14-inch iBook other than the processor. Why force someone to buy a 14-inch model just to get the faster processor?

Isn't the answer to charge a premium for the processor? Pricing differentiation would be simple: Make the 12-inch iBook with the 1.25 Ghz the same price as the 14-inch iBook with the 1.25 Ghz. Offer the 1 Ghz iBook at a lower price.

D'uh!

 

[thatwendigo]

Often I think market segmentation is the true cause of distinctions like this, rather than true technical reasons like a lot of people suggest.

Perhaps, and perhaps not. Maybe the newer machines take advantage of better features that weren't available, like firmware/ROM revisions that would run the system cooler. It's pretty openly accepted at this point that the eMacs were chipped with a PowerPC that could reach 1.3 ghz, but the heat issues with the enclosed space and the addition of a Superdrive eroded system performance. In the case of the 12" powerbook, they had to make it thicker than the other laptops just to fit everything in and keep it cool.

Is cooling and tech really not a factor? Almost certainly not. Is stratification a factor? Probably so. We won't likely know how much of either, though, unless one of us not only works for the Apple hardware department, but also doesn't mind going to jail for talking about it.

It's irritating a lot of the time...I'd like to make a PowerBook purchasing choice based purely on form factor...do I want ultra-compact, all-rounder, or desktop replacement? I'd prefer to not also have to trade off CPU speed for the sake of artificial product line-up segmentation.

Apple's not set up to do this, though, unlike the really big OEMs, because they don't have the volume to do complete pick-and-choose without taking serious hits on components that languish. That's also assuming that you're right about the motivation, incidentally, which I don't readily concede.

I'll bet not because of cooling or power problems, but because Apple wants to have something in their top-of-the-line machine to differentiate it from the low end in something other than screen size. I suppose they have to do it this way, but it's somewhat annoying at the same time.

Bet away.

i've very interested in the differences in architecture between Intel x86 chips and the G4 chips. I understand the general ghist (more calculation per second but way less efficient), but would like some more details. Could you expln or point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Ars Technica compares the P4 to the MPC 7450 (G4+) and continues here. You might want to read about the 970, which they talk about more than once.

 

[brhmac]

What?

Damn that thing is ugly. I think I will wait for G5 PBs and go for a Sony TR3 sub-notebook right now.

TR3

How? It looks almost like a PB clone.

I know this is a Mac board, but at least be honest.

 

[Spades]

The width of the 15" screen is slightly less than the width of a 4:3 17" monitor. I do not know of any 17" LCDs that do more than 1280x1024, so I'm not sure why you expect a wide-screen LCD that's the same width to have a higher horizontal resolution. Meanwhile, the 17" Powerbook already supports a higher resolution; 1440x900. I have seen 1600x1200 on 17" CRT monitors, and I can't imagine running that all the time. It's too small. You need a 19" monitor at least to run that high. All I can guess is that you're referring to the 12", but why would you do graphic design on a screen that small?

The only thing holding me back from buying a Powerbook is the poor resolution. I'm currently using a Fujitsu Lifebook that weighs 3.5 lbs, had a 10.6" screen and yet offers a native resolution of 1280x768 (16:9 ratio). And it's already almost TWO years old! For the life of me I can't understand why Mac, known as the graphic designers system, has such a poor resolution.

 

[iGuy]

let's be honest

We'd all like a PB with quad 3GHz G5s, a large, hi res screen, and a full size keyboard. Naturally it would all fold up to the size of a PalmPilot.

I think that if Apple could put a more powerful processor in the 12" they would and just like iPod mini, it would become the high margin machine.

It's late and I may not be expressing myself very well. What I'm trying to say is that just like the iPod mini is priced at a premium because of its smaller size, a 12" PB that is similar in power and features to a 17" PB would command a higher price simply because of its smaller size.

And I think customers would pay for it. So the lesser features of the 12" are not due to marketing considerations but technical ones.

I really should write these things when I'm awake. I'm sure everyone will let me know if I'm not making any sense.

~iGuy

 

[macdong]

i've got only this much to say:

no G5 in PB, no buy.

still, my dead line of must-buy is september.
so i'll wait for WWDC and see if a PB will pop up.
otherwise iBook will do just fine.

 

[goof_ball]

If Apple is having problems with getting the G5s (technically or supply) into powerbooks, I don't think anyone should be surprised by the minor speed increases.

I think these will be very good updates if all the models get improved screens. If not, kinda disappointing considering how long it has been since the last update. These would have been ok if they had been release 3 or 4 months ago.

 

[spaceballl]

256mb soldered onto motherboard?

I sure hope they solder all 256 onto the motherboard this time. Considering that they now have 512k cache G4s, the extra RAM being soldered on looks likely.
-Kevin

 

[baby duck monge]

the more similar the basic specs of the different versions in each line are, the better. moving in the direction of differentiation more by add-ons (superdrive) and special features (backlit keyboards) than by raw power (processor) should allow consumers to get the machine they want more than being forced into unnecessarily karge upgrades for one small reason or another. especially if they can keep increasing the speeds of machines as faster processors become available/workable.

 

[chasingapple]

How? It looks almost like a PB clone.

I know this is a Mac board, but at least be honest.

That was my thought as well, I actually like the look of it, and it does seem very thin and liteweight. Im not to hip on that Sony portable, looks very fat, hehe. But it also looks small overall which is nice. It really is too bad M$ does not have a better operating system out now, those Pentium-M based notebooks really are pretty good, for a Wintendo!

But I could never leave Apple or my Mac

 

[cb911]

aahhh!! my new PowerBook soon to be out-done by the low-end PowerBooks!

oh well, it'll be good to see 1.5GHz PowerBooks out there, and a $100 price drop would be even better!!

well this just makes waiting for the G5 PowerBooks too much. if the high-end G4 PowerBooks are going to be 1.5GHz... the G5 PowerBooks will have to be smokin! oh yeah!!

 

[nsb3000]

i've got only this much to say:

no G5 in PB, no buy.

still, my dead line of must-buy is september.
so i'll wait for WWDC and see if a PB will pop up.
otherwise iBook will do just fine.

I think this means we are waiting till at least MWSF for G5 powerbooks..

 

[mateybob]

this update leaves apple completely uncompetetive with the pc market... for example:

apple 15" powerbook

1.33GHz /256MB DDR/60GB/DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo drive/Gig Enet/56K/Bluetooth/AirPort Extreme

price AUS$3499 (assuming prices stay the same - which it seems they will)

lg ls50-1 15" laptop

1.4ghz centrino/256MB DDR/40GB/DVD-ROM/CD-RW/Enet/56k/(11b standard)

price AUS$1999 (http://cworld.com.au/)

im sorry but theres now way to justify AUS$1500 price difference... and dont talk to me about "build quality" because ive owned 3 mac and 3 pcs and i had to replace 3cd drives, 2 keyboards and a mouse on the macs and never had anything break on the pcs... (except windows which was just broken to start with ;p)
ive been holding off on buying a laptop till apple updated but now ill just go pc (unless they do lower prices)...

i mean whyd they increase the clock speed anyway? considering the g4 fsb i doubt it offers any real performance boost... offers plenty of extra heat and reduced battery life though...

what apple should have done was update PRICES not useless specs...

(i dont think the situation in the us is as bad but apple prices here in aus are a joke)

 

[iLilana]

Why would you need 64-bit notebook for???!! Heck, even OS X is not 64-bit at this point in time. This is fine update to power/ibook line if you ask me.

Good job Apple.

I thought Panther was 64 bit.

 

[thatwendigo]

Consider the $4.5 billion CASH Apple has sitting in the bank.

...blah blah blah....

Doesn't matter how much Apple spends on R&D vs. what you think Dell or any other company spends on R&D. The bottom line is simple: Even with Apple's R&D investment, the company has managed to pile away $4.5 billion -- all the while being more expensive $ to $ than any computer on the market.

Quite a bit of which is interest on investments, actually. Regardless, we don't know what purpose that money is being saved against, what use it might be put to, or anything else, other than what Apple says and releases. Do you think that things like Xsan and Motion come from nowhere?

Does anyone who makes this argument even know what Dell, for example, pays on R&D?

For Fiscal year 2004, Dell had $19 billion in current assets, almost $11 billion in current liability, which comes out to around $8 billion in the bank, with a total long term debt of $508 million. They don't break down their operating costs to specific sections, but the overall amount allocated to their entire operation was $3.4 billion.

Make of that what you will.

 

[chasingapple]

Honestly for someone like me I would still be rather happy with a G4 500Mhz book with a 14" screen, but then again I dont do heavy CPU intensive things, just iLife and web stuff. I dont game on my Mac, that's what my GC, XBOX, and PS2 are for. But a 1Ghz 12" iBook sounds sweet, and should last a very long time for the average person / student that uses it.

 

[mattster16]

Excited

I actually just ordered a new 15" Superdrive PB on Saturday. I am calling first thing in the morning (if the updates take effect then) to upgrade. At least I had semi good timing and didn't order earlier. (I custom configured the order with 1 memory module so if they shipped it and then upgraded I'd be screwed, at least according to their policies). I am completely new to macs and have never used one. I was playing with a friends tibook and I loved it. It's going to be my new baby. Should I upgrade to a 128MB graphics card if it's available? I mean the laptop is going down $100 so it should be about equal to what I am already spending. I am just really excited to get this thing!

 

[mattster16]

Website down for updates

I just wanted to let everyone know that when checking my current G4 PB order I noticed Apple's online store has been down for updates since about 10 o'clock central time. Could this be them updating the laptops on their online store?

 

[AndrewMT]

How? It looks almost like a PB clone.

I know this is a Mac board, but at least be honest.

It looks like a PB clone experiment gone wrong that is kept in the attic on a diet of fish heads. The keyboard and speaker layout is the same, and yes the laptop is a rectangle, but that is where the similarities end.

Sorry I'm off topic guys but this guy said I wasn't being honest. To be honest, you need your vision checked.

 

[mateybob]

Should I upgrade to a 128MB graphics card if it's available? I mean the laptop is going down $100 so it should be about equal to what I am already spending. I am just really excited to get this thing!

im not sure youre really ever getting value for money buying a graphics card for a mac considering theres probably one decent game released a year... (ignore this if you were planning on using it for something other than games)

 

[mattster16]

im not sure youre really ever getting value for money buying a graphics card for a mac considering theres probably one decent game released a year... (ignore this if you were planning on using it for something other than games)

Well, I probably wouldn't do any gaming, but I am one of those people who has to have the highest model of anything I am buying (cars, computers, etc.) so I will probably end up getting it anyways. haha