iClash: Should I stay or should I go?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Les Kern, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. Les Kern macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #1
    I'm at a crossroads, and could use a bit of input. Normally I wouldn't do this, but it's a big decision and I need data. Any data.
    The skinny:
    I have a good job, about 80K. Tech Director. 700 Macs. 14 Xserves. All the gear I could ever want. The place runs PERFECT with Open Directory. TV Studio, labs, video on demand, Fiber, web-based everything. I am incredibly successful and popular there (but have those moments of dick-wadd-ness), and all I do is develop value-added services. My assistant runs the day-to-day.
    Here's the problem: A new job offer. Director of Tech also. PC's only. 1,700 of them. Various states of repair, mostly broken. Horrible Exchange server, REALLY bad network topography and "ok" servers. Ulcers anticipated. Headaches certain. Upgrades planned.
    All this for a $40,000.00 raise.
    Would you do it? Why? Is quality of life important to you? 40G's important? I've never chased money in my life, and I am happy here. I have a wife and 10 yr. old child. $ in the bank, no real debt.
     
  2. urban1985_ macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Burnaby, British Columbia
    #2
    Lots of money's always nice, but if you're already happy, why bother?

    If I loved my job, and I was perfectly fine with the way everything was, I wouldn't change it unless it made things better. The other job doesn't seem quite as good. Happiness can't be bought. $40, 000 won't make up for anything if you're miserable.

    If you think you'd be fine at the new job, then I'll say go for it. But if it'll make things significantly worse, then I'd stay.
     
  3. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    sitting on your shoulder
    #3
    for me, job happiness > $40k more.





    But wtf do I know, that raise is almost ten times what I earned in 2004 :rolleyes:
     
  4. chanoc macrumors 6502

    chanoc

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Location:
    Anchorage, Alaska USA
    #4
    The first job is more money than I made in 2004 and more than I anticipate in 2005. My feet are still wet from washing dishes all day.
     
  5. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    PDX
    #5
    First of all Les, congratulations on having (a) a job that pays you reasonably well and more importantly, that you can face day-to-day, and (b) that you were offered another job.

    You are very lucky. Some of us "artsy" techies have trouble finding any job, let alone cool and/or multiple ones. Good for you. Perhaps I should stop right here...<sniffle>

    Anyway, a couple clarifications:
    Where is this new job? Does it require a move? Increased commute? Change of schools/address?

    Is it possible to go and try to get a feel for the new place and the people who work there? Have you already?

    How will your actual job-duties change with this new job? Will you have an assistant to deal with much of the day-to-day again?

    Will the new job invest in needed upgrades (you hint)? Do they seem like they will listen to your advice?

    Would your current job consider giving you a modest raise?

    Also, if you don't mind, how old are you? Do you have a college fund for your child? The extra cash could both help you retire earlier, buy your kid a car @ 16 or a first-rate education (etc).

    Sorry to pepper you with questions, but I am looking for more contextual information.

    If it was me, I would stay put. But I am fairly young, (usually) single and do not have extravagant tastes (except for Mac hardware). Tough call...

    I'll keep track of the thread and offer further advice (lucky you) if you feel like answering any of my questions.

    BTW, great thread title.
     
  6. jimsowden macrumors 68000

    jimsowden

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2003
    Location:
    NY
    #6
    Perhaps you should take a hint from your sig. ;)
     
  7. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #7
    If you need the money, or could really use it, take the offer. Otherwise, you have found a wonderful position many of us would envy. If you leave it, and that $40K wasn't needed, you'll regret the decision every time you go to work.

    On the other hand, that's, what, $500/week after taxes? That's some serious dough. New G5 setup every other month or so, just for working with PCs.

    God. Tough call.
     
  8. Mechcozmo macrumors 603

    Mechcozmo

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    #8
    Don't go work somewhere if you aren't going to be happy. If you are going to be unhappy, then its going to effect you in so many other places.

    Like bitching to us here on MacRumors about those PeeCees. ;)

    If you are happy, then stay where you are. But if you want a challenge and feel like you should try and go bald by tearing your hair out by using WinXP, switch.

    Bottom line is, if you aren't going to be happy and will regret this later, it isn't worth it.
     
  9. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    looking through rose-tinted spectacles...
    #9
    Ask if you can spend a day at the other company to see exactly what their issues are and what the mindset of the company is to their current tech people and the possibility of change.

    Find out what your staff are like - having good quality techs under you who can deal with much of the day to day stuff as you have currently will be important so that you can get on with the 'planning upgrade' piece of work.

    Find out how much scope you are likely to have in upgrading. Is it - everything over a year? Or more like everything over 5 years? How much will your plans be listened to - can you recreate your current working network just on a larger scale?

    Is there any current move in the company to outsource their IT department? Might it be a job where you are there for 2 years with your extra $80K and then you're out?

    What does your wife say? If you are happy and have spare cash to do stuff you enjoy on $80K then seriously consider turning it down. If the extra 40K will mean longer working hours, less time with family and more stress, then is it really worth it?
     
  10. Mr_Ed macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Location:
    North and east of Mickeyland
    #10
    Well, as long as there is the possibility of providing us here in the forums some amusement, by all means, go for the new job!!. :D

    Seriously though, my advice would be that happiness should be your priority. There is something to be said for looking forward to a challenge in your career, but you need to think really hard about whether or not you are really up to this particular challenge at this point in your life. I made a decision last year to stop traveling as a consultant and get a job locally. I was paid a lot because I paid for my own expenses so my gross income literally was cut by almost half. But right now, I am the happiest I have been in years.
     
  11. Les Kern thread starter macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #11
    I'm speechless... and you are very observant. :)
     
  12. Les Kern thread starter macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #12
    No move, 15 more minutes drive time. Been there, one of the biggest schools in the state. Worked with the Superintendent at my present school. He went there. GREAT man. Job duties the same: Visionary. 4 assistants and a secretary. Current job MAY give a raise, then this is all moot and I WILL stay. What that amount MIGHT be, I don't know. Upgrades FOR SURE, and they want me there to lead the analysis. I'm 49 years old, and you'd think I'd be mature enough to figure this out! My 10 year old daughters college is paid for now. And I'm already bald!
     
  13. Les Kern thread starter macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #13
    Oh, I have some already. Mail works 50% of the time. While I was there a secretary was caught in an endless XP-loop.
     
  14. Les Kern thread starter macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #14
    These are the two biggest reasons I'm even considering NOT going. My wife won't come out and say it, but she's all for me staying, and even mentioned if my current job gave me a bit more dough...
    Also, 8 years ago when i went to my current position, I worked 80 hour weeks, weekends, night time. It wasn't fair. My daughter was only 2 or so, but now she's 10. Do I want to sacrifice being home? And stress is huge. I JUST got over four ulcers, and I'd rather not revisit THAT.
     
  15. pivo6 macrumors 68000

    pivo6

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Location:
    Minnesota
    #15
    I think you answered your own question. There isn't any amount of money that would make up for lost family time, happiness, and health.
     
  16. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #16
    Ditto. I reconsidered my ambiguous reply above. Stay where you are. If the other job had the same hours, then, maybe, it'd be a consideration. If it required more hours but you liked it as much, then maybe. If you needed the money, then it'd be a real option.

    But, the way I see it, you have enough money, you love your job, your family would prefer to have you around instead of the having the extra money.

    if you just need someone to say it's OK to turn down $40K more a year in order to stay somewhere you love, I'll say it: it's OK. :)
     
  17. 18thTomorrow macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Location:
    The Alpha Quadrant
    #17
    From the family's perspective...

    It seems to me you have it made. It seems like you like your job and you've got your retirement, your daughter's college all set to go.

    I am one of 6 children...raised on $60,000 a year. I'm paying for my own college.

    Growing up dad was always there...he worked from 5 am to 6 pm, and then he was home in the evenings to help us with our math or hang out or whatever. I don't think I'd trade that for our having more money...I think we had everything we needed.

    And it seems to me like you're saying you do to. So why, at 50, take on more stress and less time with your family? Life is so short...

    just my 2 cents.
     
  18. sjpetry macrumors 65816

    sjpetry

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Location:
    Tamarindo, Costa Rica
    #18
    Do what makes you happy but also do what is best for your family. :)
     
  19. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    sitting on your shoulder
    #19
    I've changed my mind. Take the new offer, and give your current job to me :D
     
  20. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    #20
    Stay where you are, read the thread again and it is obvious. Time at home is worth gold, reap the hard work of the position you're in.
     
  21. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #21
    Working at a job that you enjoy is the life's dream of most. Can't imagine wanting to leave working with Mac's and going to PC's. Money isn't everything. Unless from the sound of the second job you like a challenge. If you are happy and have job security why change?
     
  22. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #22
    I'm not too fond of my job out here - how about recommending me for the other job, thus filling it and removing the temptation?
    ;)
     
  23. Les Kern thread starter macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #23
    Where do you live??
     
  24. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #24
    I wouldn't just assume that you aren't going to enjoy the higher paying job.

    You might end up liking it a lot. I'd go for it :).

    scem0
     
  25. Les Kern thread starter macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #25
    90% Sure

    Thanks to all for the GREAT advice. I'm 90% sure that I will take the decision. Why? A few good reasons. Working there 2 years is like 3 where I am, and in these times, let's face it, you need dough. Also, it's the "big" time. Where I am now is great, but this new place will put something on my resume that's priceless. I can go anywhere. I know I will be successful, I know lots of folks there, and I will have lots of folks under me to get me up to speed quickly. Also, I have a GREAT chance to get my current assistant there some day, AND my current boss is going there. I leave my current position (If I'm indeed hired!) in great shape. Uptime is close to 100%, new machines, a support proceedure thats perfect. They went from literally the dark ages to the top 5% of schools in the NATION in regards to technology/curriculum integration. No regrets. And I thrive on "projects".
    Thanks again. When it's official I will post the location so all you gear-heads can apply! BTW, I'm NOT hired yet. As far as I can say I work where I work and that's it.
     

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