If I own the vinyl album, is it legal to download the same album using bit torrent?

Discussion in 'iPod' started by kavika411, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Alabama
    #1
    I have a number of vinyl albums. I have recently given thought to purchasing the equipment necessary to transfer those albums into MP3 format so I can drop them into iTunes. Rather than enduring the expense, loss of time, and loss of music quality associated with transferring my vinyl to digital form, is it an option (i.e. is it legal) to use bit torrent software to grab these albums (assuming, of course, that I keep the vinyl and not give it away or sell it)?
     
  2. macrumors 603

    mrkramer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #2
    I think it is illegal, since with bittorent you are seeding it to people, and are distributing it to them probably illegally. as for downloading it, it is a grey area, and you mot likely won't get caught.
     
  3. macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
  4. thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Alabama
    #4
    It is simply a question, and a fair question. "Honestly," why bother with a post like yours if you have nothing even slightly constructive to say?

    I appreciate your response. I hadn't considered the uploading portion of bit torrent, as I am not very familiar with it.
     
  5. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #5
    And not to mention you "technically" did not buy the music, you bought the vinyl record that just happens to have the music (or some legal BS like that), so thus the music still needs to be bought for a different type of media, the RIAA doesn't even like people ripping CDs). But as mrkramer said, I doubt you would get caught.
     
  6. macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #6
    You don't actually own the music, you just own a license to listen to the music on the format you purchased it on. If you listen to it on mp3, you need a license to listen to that mp3 file. If you listen to it on CD, you need a license to listen to it from that CD.

    So it is illegal (in the most technical manner) to rip your vinyl to mp3, a CD to mp3, or possibly even copying an mp3 file for backup (because you don't have a license to listen to the new mp3, only the original mp3 you purchased).

    Technically speaking, of course:rolleyes:
     
  7. thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Alabama
    #7
    Thanks Mernak and thejadedmonkey, for taking the time to fill in some of the blanks. I need to clarify one thing, though, and re-ask another. First, I am not interested in whether I will or won't get caught; I'd simply like to know if it is legal. I won't do it if it is illegal. Second, regarding the concept of buying a license - that I bought a license to listen to it on vinyl, but not as an MP3 - here's where I get confused... I have been operating under the assumption that it is 100% legal, through and through, to rip CDs I own into iTunes. In that scenario, I have bought the license to listen to an album as a CD, but I have ripped it to AAC. If the "license theory" is indeed the standard, then I would need to re-purchase albums - which I already own as CDs - from the iTunes music store to fall within the letter of the law.

    Thanks again for your thorough responses.
     
  8. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #8
    Here is an article talking about CDs from the RIAA. But I doubt that they will be able do anything about it when almost everyone considers it to be fair use. So as far as I can tell it is legal (for the moment at least)
     
  9. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #9
    I'd say it wasn't morally wrong to download it off the Internet, as you own it. With regards to legality I suspect its legally grey.
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    kuebby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    SFV
    #10
    That's the best answer you'll get. It can't be morally wrong because you already paid for the album once.
     
  11. thread starter macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Alabama
    #11
    I appreciate your honest candor. I didn't realize I hit on such a murky topic when I asked the original question.
     
  12. macrumors 68000

    kuebby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    SFV
    #12
    Yep. The legality surrounding things you already own in another format is an important part of the debate over downloading music. Because the technology has changed so much and people have large collections of tapes and LPs that would be difficult to convert to digital files that they don't want to lose to technological obscurity.
     
  13. macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Location:
    USA! USA!
    #13
    Meh. Go to a local public library and check out the CDs, then rip 'em with iTunes. Bit torrent is a PITA.
     
  14. macrumors P6

    dukebound85

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Location:
    5045 feet above sea level
    #14
    lol i dont think that is right.

    if it was illegal then how would itunes ever be permitted to rip cds to mp3 in the first place. by your way of thinking, only songs bought as mp3 say by itms could go into itunes
     
  15. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    #15
    The legality of media is always a very bizarre thing anyways. For example, if you buy a blank VHS tape and tape an episode of Survivor, it's legal for you to own and watch that tape, but only for a limited amount of time. That means that after about three months, you are legally obligated to tape over that episode of Survivor or you have illegal media in your home.
     
  16. macrumors P6

    dukebound85

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Location:
    5045 feet above sea level
    #16
    i will say i will never do that or even worry about it
     
  17. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    #17
    I think I may be right in saying that it varies on which country you are in.

    I know some allow you a license for the actual SONG/ALBUM so you can download from other sources legally (technically speaking), whereas others sell you a license for the physical MEDIA (CD, Vinyl, MP3) etc.

    Someone else may choose to correct me here though.
     
  18. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #18
  19. macrumors 68000

    mcarnes

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Location:
    USA! USA!
    #19
  20. macrumors 6502a

    eRondeau

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Location:
    Canada's South Coast
    #20
    As far as the record companies are concerned, what you are asking to do is absolutely 100% illegal. To paraphrase your question, you're essentially wondering if paying for one album automatically entitles you to free updates and/or replacements of that album, for life. The answer is no, it does not. Having said that, it would be more of a civil ownership litigation than anything criminal (so you couldn't go to jail for it, but you might have to pay some big $$$.)
     
  21. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Location:
    in the southeast
    #21
  22. macrumors 6502

    X5-452

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    #22
    See to me, that's bull. It's one thing to say "I bought a 2G iPod, therefore I should be able to upgrade to a touch for free" but since you've already paid for the music, you should be able to listen to it in whichever format you desire. This whole "you bought a license to play it on vinyl, not mp3" is absurd and I really wish someone would fight the RIAA in court over it. I have given you my money to play and listen to music, and therefore I should have the freedom to make backups of it, and to listen to it on vinyl or mp3 or aac or whatever the hell I want.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    eRondeau

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Location:
    Canada's South Coast
    #23
    You're probably too young to remember this, but in the "glory days" of the record companies -- lots of people would buy the same music in different formats over and over again. Hear a new song on the radio, you'd buy a '45. Like the B-side and you'd buy the LP. Want to hear it in your car, you'd buy an 8-Track and (later) a Cassette, and then a CD. Before you know it, you've paid for 3-4 different formats of Three Dog Night. This is when the record companies were making $$$ hand-over-fist, because they were selling the same music to the same dedicated, repeat customers in many different formats. (Reminds me a lot of how a certain little computer company is suddenly doing really, really well because it manages to sell multiple computers, and iPod's, to the same core group of customers over and over again. Seriously, how many people reading this have ever owned just one Mac? How many have owned just one iPod?) In this argument, the record companies lost the battle because they weren't responsive enough to see digital music sharing bearing-down on them like a freight train. They are now desperately doing what little they can to try to bring back the only success they've ever known -- buying suing their customers, hoping we'll keep buying the 8-Tracks too.
     
  24. macrumors 65816

    c-Row

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Location:
    Germany
    #24
    That's a quite bad comparison. I don't think we buy a second MacBook because the first only works in the living room but not in the kitchen. Nor does one iPod play music from iTMS and the other plays CD rips only.
     
  25. macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #25
    As has been pointed out above, the law varies considerably depending which country you live in.

    In some countries, all blank media has a tax on it which is then distributed to the RIAA (I think) because it is assumed that you will only use it for illegally recording copyrighted media.

    Yes, that makes my head spin too. Yes, I (and many others) regard it as morally wrong that the RIAA (or whoever) collects money for an 'illegal' act while simultaneously suing for the same act.

    Morever, that money is collected by the govt, and given to RIAA (or whoever), this private organisation that manifestly does not represent all recording artists, even if the blank media is used solely for my own work that I created myself.

    One final note - BitTorrent doesn't necessarily involve uploading or distributing. You can turn off the upload part (reduce upload bandwidth to 0) and only download. Many BT hosts don't like this and will give you a low priority. You can up your share ratio a bit by putting legal files (Firefox, Linux distros etc) up for upload and distribution.
     

Share This Page