If M$ is building a new OS from scratch for 2005 how will Apple compete?

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by GeneR, Jan 21, 2003.

  1. GeneR macrumors 6502a

    GeneR

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    The land of delusions, CA.
    #1
    This has stumped me for a bit: the rumor that M$ is building a new OS from stratch to be released in 2005. If these rumors are true (I'm assuming they are), then in what ways can Apple outdo M$? What are the hidden advantages for Apple for M$ doing this? What are the disadvantages?

    TRANSLATION: What's to prevent M$ from stealing Apple's great ideas again with their next OS release?

    Please let me know what your thoughts are on this. Thanks! :)
     
  2. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #2
    They can build all the OS's they want from scratch, they'll still do it wrong. They already copy Apple in everything, they've caught up from being 10 years behind to being around 2-3 now... but it still takes time to impliment these things... again, it will suck in new and interesting ways... and all it will do is drive users to Mac... you've seen the troubles Apple had in building an OS from scratch, but we're done with it now. So while the new MS OS will be completely unstable and unusable for the first year or two, OS X is here with unsurpassed stability and adabtability.

    Let the switching continue :)

    pnw
     
  3. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #3
    If MS is building a whole new OS from scartch i'd run away in fear. All though most of OS X growing pains were from slow software developers, which probably won't happen to MS, I think they are going to have a bitch of a time. And even though it's going to be a whole new OS you know it's gonna have legacy support out the @ss which is going really going to be interesting. I don't see MS doing the "Classic" type thing that Apple did w/9 & 10. I think they are gonna release one, huge ugly bloated OS that will take legacy hardware/software at first, but thru updates the first couple of years it will slowly shed legacy compatibility (kinda like how Jobs weened people off 9).


    Lethal
     
  4. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

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    Jan 19, 2002
    #4
    M$ could build the world's greatest OS.

    All they'd need to do is:
    Fire their marketing department (the people who promise every 'feature' that comprises the bloat).
    Fire thier management team (the folks who gave you M$ Wristwatch)
    Scrap everything they've done thus far (the registry model, the .dll structure, etc.)
    Hire away all of Apples UI team, as well as some usability and UI experts from the world of BE, Sony consumer electronics, HP imaging, and some other top notch divisions.

    Give the Micro$oft dev team a clean slate, and let them use most of that 60BN to get it done, and M$ will give the world a secure fault free OS, with an elegant and intuitive UI, and an exstenible OS experience.

    Although it has the money, and the talent, I can guarantee that the M$ monolith will shoot themselves in the foot and miss it again...
     
  5. tcmcam macrumors member

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    #5
    New OS is NOT from Scratch

    The Windows OS update in 2005 is called Longhorn. It's not from scratch. They are taking the Windows XP code base (the Windows NT multiprocessing kernel) and adding a boatload of features to it.

    Unfortunately, they still have to be "backwards compatible" which means it will still have to have many, many features to support their older applications.

    It is supposed to have a new UI model (more web like - e.g. forward, back).

    But OS X is still very nice so Apple shouldn't worry. Apple's iLife apps still make it a unique (albeit niche) platform.

    "former MS dude"
     
  6. HasanDaddy macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    M$ is already built upon an unstable, non-unix, foundation

    no update can fix that

    Will they incorporate unix???

    I doubt it - wouldn't it be tough to do it now!?!?
     
  7. HasanDaddy macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    In addtion

    the update will probably cost around $200

    and if you buy one and install it in your friend's computer, your friend's computer will SHUT DOWN and be unusable

    fock WinDoZe
     
  8. mangoduck macrumors regular

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    #8
    the real question is, how will ms compete with apple? if they were to release a from-scratch os in 2005, it would still be about 5 years behind osx. more actually, because x comes from next, which comes from unix, which is the grandfather of modern systems.

    starting a new os would be an admission that the pretty, smooth, friendly, stable, and almost perfect os they make xp out to be - is not. it wouldn't be wise anyway, because they've invested too much in the nt base to scrap it now.

    but yes, whatever they do will include major bloat, foot-shooting, and lots of bugs. i'm not worried.

    edit: spelling
     
  9. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    Denver, CO
    #9
    Apple will compete very well with whatever new monstrosity Microsoft comes up with, because the reason MS is developing a new OS to start with is so that they can embed Digital Rights Management into the core of the OS. There's almost no way this can be anything but a disaster for them. The problems it will introduce will befuddle novices and infuriate advanced users. Microsoft will not be able to resist using it to engage in anticompetitive business practices (no other word processor will be able to import a Microsoft Word document, for instance). And thanks to the lunacy of the DMCA in the U.S., it will inevitably become a violation of federal law for you to simply get your computer to do what you want it to do in certain cases.

    And Apple will be able to step up to the plate, yet again, and offer a computer that Just Works. And that's how they'll compete.
     
  10. P-Worm macrumors 68020

    P-Worm

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    #10
    To me, the big reason that Apple will come out ahead is this:

    Microsoft will have to make a from scratch OS eventually. It just can't handle the self destruction it is going through right now. When this happens they will have the same transition phase that Apple made with OS X.

    That, my friends is the killer. You think WE had problems switching? Microsoft has a HUGE enstallment base, and not even close are they all running the newest OS. I worked for an engineering company last year that had all of their Windows machines running 2000 because the company does not trust XP. There are lots of people that work this way. Microsoft has dug them into a hole by having people count on their newest OS to be filled with bugs.

    Also, there is no way that Microsoft will be able to make a working classic environment for the old apps. It can't even make a decent STAND ALONE OS

    You think that the 970 will bring switchers? You ain't seen nothing yet. :)

    P-Worm
     
  11. 000111one111000 macrumors regular

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    DeKalb, IL
    #11
    not Longhorn

    The update in 2005 is not Longhorn. Longhorn has switched from being a full XP upgrade to being just a normal client release, similar to the way 98 was just 95 repackaged with better features, etc. etc. etc.

    The completely new OS Microsoft is releasing in 2005 or 2006 is called Blackcomb.

    There's an article out there somewhere stating this, but I've lost the link. I think it was on eWeek perhaps, but I don't really remember. A simple search on Google should turn it up if you really care to read it.

    enoch
     
  12. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #12
    Also if you guys didn't know this but the next windows release will break compatibility with older hardware. It will not install on current hardware at all, people will need NEW hardware just to use the OS, i think one of the requirements for the OS is for the hardware to have PCI Express which is 64bit and is not out yet.

    I feel sorry for new XP users all the time, they buy it now not knowing they cannot upgrade the OS!

    Glad i'm switching now!
     
  13. FattyMembrane macrumors 6502a

    FattyMembrane

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    bat country
    #13
    building an os from scratch will undoubtedly (although this is microsoft) create a better system than 2000 or xp. looking at some of the new features that the next versions of windows are supposed to include, it is actually somewhat impressive for ms and i don't think that it's necessary to blindly bash the os (i'm trying to keep restrained, i probably hate ms more than is natural or healthy). what you have to remember is that apple will keep innovating as well (if you can call what ms does "innovation"), it will not just sit on it's haunches until 2006 and go "oops! looks like we'd better get to work!". if apple keeps the schedule it's been following so far, os x should be at about 10.5 by the time blackcomb is anywhere near ready for production and now that the "growing pains" have been covered in osx, i think that we can expect more focus on innovation and less on getting the os up to par.

    you must also remember that microsoft will build fabulous features into it's new os, like palladium, and the new media shenanigans described in this thread
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18116

    970+10.5-palladium=bliss
     
  14. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #14
    It's funny.

    This new OS will be entirely proprietary, yet everything in it will be called a standard, because microsoft makes it, and they can push it to the masses.

    Everything else will then be seen as incompatible, and will become obsolete, because microsoft will put strict rights on their standards, making it next to impossible for others to adopt them.

    Small, innovative startup companies will go out of business, and microsoft will grow.

    Thousands of bugs will be found in the first week of its release.

    There will be about 10 security patches in the first month of its release.

    People will be forced to buy new computers to keep up with the OS.

    People will loose entire hard drives due to installation errors.

    And while all this is happening, Apple will keep on doing what they do. Innovate.

    Apple will still be releasing small updates to their OS. The dual/quad 970's (and beyond) will be the powerhouses of personal computers...

    And people will praise microsoft for putting out such a wonderful operating system, and shun Apple for doing what they've been doing the whole time: updating their OS little by little and continuing to innovate the computer industry one thing at a time.

    We can only hope for a fatal flaw in microsoft's plans, like a bug that destroys hard drives, a security code that keeps you from keeping downloaded music, and your own legally obtained music on your computer, or the complete lack of HTML, HTTP, FTP, mp3, mpeg4, and every other standard out there that microsoft doesn't make.

    We really need to do something soon. Microsoft continues to kill innovation by pushing their proprietary crap on users, instead of letting open source and other standards and applications compete fairly. If something's not done, we won't be able to browse the web without using a microsoft browser that really has no future plans for updates, just because people program their websites to work with microsoft only browsers. We'll all have to switch to .wmv file formats for our media, because nobody else will support mpeg, or even real player. We will be forced to use CRAP because microsoft decides that their $#!t is better for everyone, and even though it'll start with windows, it will inevitably float over to the Mac side of things. microsoft will make some cheap apps for the mac just to get by, or maybe even just forget about us, and screw over every ounce of innovation in the computer world.

    microsoft IS a monopoly, microsoft WILL take advantage of you, microsoft DOES NOT play fair. They play stupid, hoping that people won't notice what they're doing, and when people find out and take it to the courts, they lie and cheat their way out of it. microsoft is very deceiving, and will get you if you're not careful.

    You may think that my post is a bunch of hatred towards microsoft, and a bunch of opinions and myths found online, but if you manage to see what has been left in the wake of microsoft (if you can see past the curtains that they have erected to keep people out of their past), you will see that microsoft doesn't want to help you or any other consumer, but themselves...
     
  15. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #15
    You need to put that in your sig...
     
  16. Jimong5 macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Ive noticed something... While Apple is working toward the Digital hub, Windows is slowly becoming a Web Browser. Imagine.. 2020, Windows will be the Mac Default Web browser, because thats all it is :D
     
  17. medea macrumors 68030

    medea

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    #17
    hmm, well in 2005 ms might just catch up to the current version of os x, and by that time we would have advanced even farther, kinda like how VPR Matrix finally brought out the first widescreen pc to catch up with the Tibooks brought out 2 years ago and now we bring out the 17" ones...oh and the 12". Don't worry about what Apple will bring out, we will always be ahead in innovation.
     
  18. Chaszmyr macrumors 601

    Chaszmyr

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    #18
    The next upgrade revision is indeed Longhorn, and is indeed based on WinXP... It is however all 3d rendered and stuff like OSX.

    The big question is - based on the ugly OSs MS has made in the past - is it possible that they will be able to rival OSX in terms of aesthetic appeal of the OS?
     
  19. yosoyjay macrumors regular

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  20. yosoyjay macrumors regular

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    #20
    You are frightfully delusional.
     
  21. janey macrumors 603

    janey

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    #21
    For micro$hit to become more successful than Apple, they need to fire Gates, Ballmer, their entire maketing department and whoever does the gooey thing for their operating systems.

    There is no way Microsoft will be able to rival OS X in terms of aesthetic appeal because by the time they get to that point, Apple would have come out with some more great software. And if MS's new OS isn't backwards compatible, Windoze users will probably have to get new hardware and software...and they might as well switch at that point because you're going to buy a new computer anyway, why not buy a Mac?
     
  22. Raiden macrumors regular

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    Jun 14, 2002
    #22
    Look, I have no dought that MS will create a good OS from scratch by 2005. It will have some great features that rival jaguar, and of course tons of bloatware.

    What I honestly hate is the big brother software and the digital copyright protection and tons of other MS "standards" that will be encorperated into the new OS. Not only that, but as someone pointed out, its impossible for MS to not build an OS w/o bugs and security holes. Security updates, patches, service packs, will all be the norm.

    Not only that, but it would be impossible to create a "classic" type thing like OSX did. They would have to be able to emulate DOS, 95, 98, 2000, ME, NT, and even XP. Even if they attemt to pull that off wouldnt it have tons of inconpatable software and other problems?

    I forsee that by the time 2006 roles around, companies will start to want to switch to a more stable, user friendly OS. Then the masses of people will want to do the same thing, and they will all come to OSX in hordes.
     
  23. FattyMembrane macrumors 6502a

    FattyMembrane

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    #23
    as i read more of these messages, i realize that as unfortunate as it sounds, there will not be a big switch to the mac for a long, long time (despite my earlier, more hopeful postings). i'm still not quite sure why people who can seem to tell the good from the bad in every other situation stick with windows, but they do. we're forgetting that windows has had all kinds of problems already, and people still stick with it (and are ever so impressed with the latest-greatest virus-magnet update). there are lots of people out there who say "well, i just use windows because it's compatable with everything". these are the same people who feel that it is absolutely necessary to drop half a grand on office because it's "the standard". palladium will come along, copy-protected cds will come along, flackbomb will come along, and these people will just accept it, because that's the routine.
     
  24. nightowl macrumors member

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    Jan 22, 2003
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    Sacramento, CA
    #24
    As a former PC user (still stuck with one at work :( ), I switched almost a year ago to Apple for one simple reason - stability in the OS and sick and tired of M$.

    Until just a few years ago, I was one of those Apple bashers, trash talking the Mac, it's a toy, etc. OSX got me interested in the Mac, and ultimately is why I switched at home.

    It's amazing at how easy, powerful, and gorgeous my Mac is. I've been a PC user for nearly 20 years, actually started on an Apple ][ in elementary school. I WAS the biggest PC cheeleader there was.

    Heck, I've even convinced my best friend to switch, when he scrapes some money together to buy all new hardware.

    To tie it all into this thread, I think that as M$ ticks more and more of us seasoned, experienced, knowledgable users off, we will be switching more and more. I didn't like some of the privacy "features" in XP, and I have yet to install it on any of my PCs.

    Ahh, so glad there's no more "Blue Screen of Death" rearing its ugly head!
     
  25. GeneR thread starter macrumors 6502a

    GeneR

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    The land of delusions, CA.
    #25
    Cool. Thanks for the head's up!

    I appreciate all the time and energy from everyone who's responded. It's always helpful to get a feeling for what might be in store for the future. Anyway, thanks again! May Good Fortune shine on all of you and you all wake up with 17" A|PBs under your pillows! (Me too! I'd like that too!) :D
     

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