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oban14

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2008
554
1
It means analogue. It gives you a warmer sound, which is why many people prefer tapes and records.

I occasionally use an old analogue computer when I'm craving a warmer computing experience.
 

theapex

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 6, 2008
160
0
Hey, why don't you upload all your tracks separately at about 1 minute (or less) each and we can all have a little mixing competition!
be more specific with what you are asking...it may be simple, but I don't really understand what you want.
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Mar 22, 2008
16,530
30
On tenterhooks
It means analogue. It gives you a warmer sound, which is why many people prefer tapes and records.

I occasionally use an old analogue computer when I'm craving a warmer computing experience.

Perfect answer.

Digital is digital, and nothing else.

Warmth is flawed, and, as stated already, totally subjective.

I will gladly put up with some pops and scratches from my vinyl over CD's.

But Joni Mitchell's debute album had to be replaced. ;)

The worst pressing......ever.
 

junior

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2003
553
67
be more specific with what you are asking...it may be simple, but I don't really understand what you want.


Err...:confused:... Okay,

1. Bounce each track at 0:60 each, no eq, no comp.
2. Zip the folder with all the files in them,
3. Upload.
4. See what professionals/different amateurs do differently to get a better idea of mixes. WHat better way than to see the difference on your own music.
5. I was trying to be helpful
6. But if help is not needed, forget it.
6. Still confused?
 

OllyW

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 11, 2005
17,196
6,799
The Black Country, England
You could try using this piano.......

burning_piano.jpg
 

theapex

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 6, 2008
160
0
Err...:confused:... Okay,

1. Bounce each track at 0:60 each, no eq, no comp.
2. Zip the folder with all the files in them,
3. Upload.
4. See what professionals/different amateurs do differently to get a better idea of mixes. WHat better way than to see the difference on your own music.
5. I was trying to be helpful
6. But if help is not needed, forget it.
6. Still confused?

i get what you are saying...that a great idea, but it would take along time wouldn't it? and also there is not a certain track that i have in mind...this was a general question.
 

junior

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2003
553
67
i get what you are saying...that a great idea, but it would take along time wouldn't it? and also there is not a certain track that i have in mind...this was a general question.

If you have, say 20 tracks at 0:30 sec each, the process should take you 20 minutes max to bounce and zip. Upload depends on your connection.
We do it all the time, especially with composers from abroad, though that's usually done with every channel bounced as stereo (for pan) and all the levels and effects in place, so that only tweaking is necessary on our side.

And yeah, it might have been slightly off topic, but I thought your sound needed a bit of help, and I was very bored yesterday.

Back on topic:

Would people on this forum consider Jack Johnson records to be 'warm'?
 

theapex

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 6, 2008
160
0
If you have, say 20 tracks at 0:30 sec each, the process should take you 20 minutes max to bounce and zip. Upload depends on your connection.
We do it all the time, especially with composers from abroad, though that's usually done with every channel bounced as stereo (for pan) and all the levels and effects in place, so that only tweaking is necessary on our side.

And yeah, it might have been slightly off topic, but I thought your sound needed a bit of help, and I was very bored yesterday.

Back on topic:

Would people on this forum consider Jack Johnson records to be 'warm'?

just wanted to let everyone know...that is not really compressors making the sound sound like that. it is a sound that I was going for...experimenting per say....

i wanted to try and take alot of the mid range out of the mix until the vocals got laid, just to see how the vocalist voice would respond to the open space in the middle of the mix.
 

theapex

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 6, 2008
160
0
it is crazy how absolute foreign some of this terminology is. but i'm learning. but one thing is really crazy. all the talk about compressors and limiters. how do you even know where to start as far as effects are on tracks. is there a tutorial or faq somewhere that actually tells you what the intended purpose of each type of effect is?
 

hakukani

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2008
152
7
Hawaii
it is crazy how absolute foreign some of this terminology is. but i'm learning. but one thing is really crazy. all the talk about compressors and limiters. how do you even know where to start as far as effects are on tracks. is there a tutorial or faq somewhere that actually tells you what the intended purpose of each type of effect is?

Record your tracks where possible without processing, unless that processing (like guitar distortion) is part of the sound of the instrument. Then set up an effects loop so that you can mix effects. If a track has a severely wide dynamic, put a compressor (not too much-just enough to tame it) on that channel.

When it starts sounding pretty good, put a multiband compressor to tame the final mix--You don't want the whole mix to 'duck' every time the bass plays a note.

There's much more, but the above should be a start.
 

Mr Skills

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2005
803
1
There is the actual meaning of warm, and there is what most people seem to think it means.

Warmth actually means a pleasant, slightly soft aspect of the sound, with pleasing overtones and harmonics.

However, in all my years of working professionally, most non-engineers use it simply to mean "nice". So if people ask for something to be warm, and they are not an experienced engineer/producer what they usually mean is "make it better".

:rolleyes:
 

junior

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2003
553
67
There is the actual meaning of warm, and there is what most people seem to think it means.

Warmth actually means a pleasant, slightly soft aspect of the sound, with pleasing overtones and harmonics.

However, in all my years of working professionally, most non-engineers use it simply to mean "nice". So if people ask for something to be warm, and they are not an experienced engineer/producer what they usually mean is "make it better".

:rolleyes:

Heh, in all my years in the profession, I've never had anyone using the word 'warmth' to simply mean 'nice'. Makes zero sense.
Plus, 'warmth' is precisely the word used predominantly by non-engineers. I've never heard an engineer saying 'listen to the warmth I produced!' or 'yeah, the mix will be done as soon as I give it some warmth'.
It's ALWAYS the clients that use the word, but that's just from my experience so I'll take your word for it.
 

Mr Skills

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2005
803
1
Heh, in all my years in the profession, I've never had anyone using the word 'warmth' to simply mean 'nice'. Makes zero sense.
Plus, 'warmth' is precisely the word used predominantly by non-engineers. I've never heard an engineer saying 'listen to the warmth I produced!' or 'yeah, the mix will be done as soon as I give it some warmth'.
It's ALWAYS the clients that use the word, but that's just from my experience so I'll take your word for it.

I think you're agreeing with me without realising it! You're right that it makes no sense for it to mean 'nice'. It's just one of those things that non-pros pick up on and say because it sounds professional. But I can't count the times when someone has asked for something to be more 'warm' and what they've actually wanted was for something to be more present/bright - i.e. the opposite of warm.

:)



so, as an engineer, what exactly do i do to my signal(s) to achieve "warmth"?

Well, assuming that your talking about warmth in its correct sense... well, that's a can of worms! There are all sorts of things. You can start with the instruments and how they are played. A snare drum hit gently will usually be much warmer than one hit hard (note: 'warmer' not 'better'). Certain mics are warmer than others. Vintage mics are often particularly warm, as modern mics are often made to sound bright, as is the fashion in pop sound. But it's really a case of using your ears. Don't fall into the classic trap of kidding yourself that something sounds warmer just because it's got a glowing tube.
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,402
11
toronto
A snare drum hit gently will usually be much warmer than one hit hard

when a snare is hit lightly, i expect lower level (obviously) and less rattling of the snares, so the frequency response will be different. is it the lower volume or the missing frequencies which make it 'warmer'? or something else?

Vintage mics are often particularly warm, as modern mics are often made to sound bright

are you saying that, in order for me to make my sounds 'warmer', i should roll off the high end? or something else?

can you describe the sonic signature(s) you have in mind without using the word 'warm'?
 

Mr Skills

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2005
803
1
when a snare is hit lightly, i expect lower level (obviously) and less rattling of the snares, so the frequency response will be different. is it the lower volume or the missing frequencies which make it 'warmer'? or something else?





are you saying that, in order for me to make my sounds 'warmer', i should roll off the high end? or something else?

can you describe the sonic signature(s) you have in mind without using the word 'warm'?

Well yes, in a sense, I associate the word 'warm' with a reduction in high end, but it's more than that, because otherwise warm would just be the same thing as muffly. You can of course EQ something to be warmer, but if you want to achieve warmth without muffliness I find it much easier to use non-EQ means. Hence the example of hitting a snare less hard which, as you pointed out, reduces the frequency content, but in a more complex and musical way than just rolling off top. Of course, (to continue with the snare example) hitting it softly might be completely inappropriate for the music, but there are other ways of achieving the same thing, from the drummer's hitting technique, to the actual snare, to the skin used, to the mic position. And if all else fails, EQ :)
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,402
11
toronto
You can of course EQ something to be warmer

oh, that's good news. what frequencies, specifically? can i simply do it to the entire mix, or must i do it to each track?

if you want to achieve warmth without muffliness I find it much easier to use non-EQ means.

most of the songs i mix, i haven't recorded. so i'm looking for techniques post-recording to make things 'warm'. are there additional non-EQ and post-recording things i can do? i have compressors, delays and reverbs, if that helps.
 

Mr Skills

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2005
803
1
oh, that's good news. what frequencies, specifically? can i simply do it to the entire mix, or must i do it to each track?

Well that's a how-long-is-a-piece-of-string question. It depends on which individual things you want to be warmer! If you're happy with the whole mix, but want a bit more warmth, of course you can put a bit of EQ over it (don't go crazy). But maybe it's just one instrument you want to be warmer... Generally low and lower mid type area is where the warmth is but be careful not to make things muffly, especially if they are having to compete with other instruments.

Since you sound a bit unsure, I'd say this: don't obsess too much about being warm. It's a word you hear all the time, so it's easy to worry about it, but most of the people using the word don't know what it means. Just think about what you want a mix to say - whether you want it to be bright and brash, or soft and silky.

most of the songs i mix, i haven't recorded. so i'm looking for techniques post-recording to make things 'warm'. are there additional non-EQ and post-recording things i can do? i have compressors, delays and reverbs, if that helps.

Well one thing that really helps with warmth is the cut button. The less there is going on the easier it is to make things warm. Think of a piano, for example. If you've got a busy, aggressive Britney pop track you're going to want it to be bright and brittle, to cut through all the other stuff and grab attention, and to carve it's own space. The actual sound in solo will probably be pretty thin.

On the other hand, think of a simple piano and vocal song. Then you've got room to make the piano lovely and big and wet and woolly and warm, without it getting lost or losing excitement. As a rule, the less there is going on, the more you can afford to warm things up.

:)
 
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