I'm going Legal...with my software

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by FF_productions, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. FF_productions macrumors 68030


    Apr 16, 2005
    Mt. Prospect, Illinois
    Yeah, I did get a friends version of FCP, and I knew it wasn't legal. But I couldn't afford it, so of course I decided to do it anyway.

    The only legal piece of software is Soundtrack, the original discs and the box. The rest, I found a way to get without buying it, and we'll leave it at that.

    I have decided to invest about 600-700 bucks to get the academic version of Final Cut Studio and finally go Legal and feel better about myself.

    I heard in a thread a long time ago about pirated software that the guy would get bad karma if he ever pirated software and it would just bring him bad luck.

    So there you have it, I'm all legal now/soon.
  2. Laslo Panaflex macrumors 65816

    Laslo Panaflex

    May 1, 2003
    I applaud you for going legal, it's the right thing to do. But just FYI, I think that it is against the EULA of the Academic version of Final Cut Studio to use the software for financial gain, it's to be used for education purposes only.
  3. FF_productions thread starter macrumors 68030


    Apr 16, 2005
    Mt. Prospect, Illinois
    :eek: Uh oh forgot that little detail.

    So I guess it might take me a little bit longer to get the real version.
  4. wmmk macrumors 68020


    Mar 28, 2006
    The Library.
    I'm legal now, but have no good commercial software. open source is great, but opening X11 all the time is starting to bug me. anyway, congrats. it feels great.
  5. iMeowbot macrumors G3


    Aug 30, 2003
    I don't see that in the Apple licenses. It says that the license is only good as long as you are a qualified student or faculty member, but there are no usage restrictions otherwise. Linky.

    Not-for-resale licenses do have usage restrictions.
  6. Xander562 macrumors 68000


    Apr 2, 2006
    if only we all had as much strength and honesty as you....:rolleyes:
  7. FF_productions thread starter macrumors 68030


    Apr 16, 2005
    Mt. Prospect, Illinois
    Yeah, not many people will admit to having illegal software, it took me a while to finally just let it out and let everybody know I've been doing a terrible deed by using my software illegally.

    Because I just love FCP so much, I have come clean and I will buy myself a real copy of it just to feel better about myself.
  8. Laslo Panaflex macrumors 65816

    Laslo Panaflex

    May 1, 2003
    I thought I read that the education versions do have usage restrictions. Well, then, if you are a student or faculty member, then education route is the way to go.
  9. mduser63 macrumors 68040


    Nov 9, 2004
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I've looked into it fairly thoroughly and have been unable to find any usage restrictions on Apple educational licenses for software. Other companies have them (Adobe/Macromedia for one), but not Apple.
  10. swingerofbirch macrumors 68030

    Oct 24, 2003
    The Amalgamated States of Central North America
    I was having an interesting discussion with someone tonight about moral relativism versus dogmatic morality.

    I have gone legal when it was a pain to do otherwise. If I already had gone to the trouble you had to acquire FCP I would probably just keep it.

    I guess I would employ moral relativism and think about how Apple allowed illegal options trading by letting employees pick the day of the month they wanted to cash in. They also make billions yet pay their Chinese laborers a very small amount every month and force them to live in a factory in a large room with no privacy. Steve Jobs has been fighting to destroy a historical site which he owns in Woodside, California for years now.

    But like I said: I was questioning my use of moral relativism. Not saying it's right. But you have to wonder if no one else is playing by the rules, is it moral to myself to not give myself that advantage?

    Also, why should Apple be allowed to rest on protection from the government to prohibit sharing of their programs. That brings up a whole other set of questions. Shouldn't they have to give you a compelling reason to buy their version of the product?

    I am not in the market for $$$$ software. If I was, would I feel better doing it legit? Yeah definitely. I think it depends though on where you are.

    If you put a kid in school that will fail if he doesn't cheat, he's in a bad spot. Kids need to be able to realistically succeed.

    That's the hard thing in this society. To some people, you could move the decimal point one spot to the left, and that's the relative impact it would have on them. To someone like the CEO of Exxon you could move the decimal point 6 places to the left and see how much it would look to him.

    To some $700 is a drop in the bucket. To some it's two months' rent.

    Just raising the questions. I imagine I'll get flamed.
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    A downside to going Academic is that you might not be able to upgrade to the next version of FCP. Sometimes Apple has blocked the edu upgrade path and sometimes they have not. So if you buy FCP 5 edu now you most likely won't be able to upgrade to 6. Which may or may not be a big deal for your, but saying some money now may end up costing you more money in the long run.

    I'd suggest to trying buying an old copy of FCP, Motion 2, DVD SP 4, or Soundtrack Pro off eBay (a real copy, not like a burned one) and then upgrading to the UB version Final Cut Studio.

  12. Abstract macrumors Penryn


    Dec 27, 2002
    Location Location Location
    But if Apple was moral and paid their workers a higher wage, new iPods would cost $600!!! :eek: [/sarcasm]

    Yes, in a way, you're right. I do agree with you.

    I'm like the OP. I want to go legal in some cases, but only with software I think is worth it. I'm going to buy Adobe Lightroom once it's released, because even Beta 3 has been a real treat to use. That's got to be several hundred dollars. :)

    However, I don't know if I'm ever going to buy MS Office. The question of "Do I need to play by the rules if the company who makes the product has a lower set of moral standards?" I mean, I'd hate a company like MS, Starbucks, Walmart (!!), Adidas (!), Nike, etc, to be able to hide behind the law and complain when we do something bad, but then turn around and do much worse than us, and get away with it all. I also don't use it, so I'd happily delete it if I was ever short of harddisk space.

    The other program I pirate, but WOULD pay for is Adobe Photoshop. I'll get it legally one day, but since I only use one feature in that program right now, I'm gonna need to get better at it before I buy it. :eek: It costs waaaaay too much for 1 feature. Otherwise, I'll delete it and just purchase Photoshop Elements or something.

    However, I'll continue to buy what I think is good. I bought Graphic Converter as well since it only costs $30 and can open like 100 different types of image files. :) I also paid for an upgrade of iLife for my 12" PB because I was still on iPhoto 2 and such, and wanted to be on version 5.
  13. RedTomato macrumors 68040


    Mar 4, 2005
    .. London ..
    Some of mine is legal, and some isn't. Pretty much everything that I use to earn money with is legal.

    I erm 'found' FCP / FCE about a year ago, and still have the zip file. I might have installed it once on one of my machines (now wiped), but have never seriously tried to learn it - buying it at that time would have been a waste of money.

    |'ve made a bit of money via iMovie, and that is a fully legal version. FCP would have been too much. If I do get to the point where I start making money with FCP, then I fully intend to buy a legal version.

    I ran a 'found' Dreamweaver for several years but never used it commercially. About 9 months ago, I got a paid contract to use Dreamweaver to maintain and update a website.

    That same month, I got a legal copy of Dreamweaver, as I was now making a profit out of it so I felt OK, fair enough, buy a copy.

    It does help that the work I do is for charities / non-profits, so I can get charity pricing. In the UK, most academic pricing also includes use by charities, non-profits, voluntary and community organisations.


  14. Sesshi macrumors G3


    Jun 3, 2006
    One Nation Under Gordon
    Sometimes I think I'm the only mug who's bought all his software since in my twenties when I started to make heavy use of computers. Heck, I never even pirated games in my teens. But then I was never exactly strapped for cash, and software that I needed was never that expensive in those days.

    I like to have a conduit to complain to in the case of trouble and for me the cost of software and hardware is a relative drop in the ocean as opposed to paying for the cost of more fundamental IT infrastructure - server hosting, offsite backup, disaster continuity, leased lines, communications when roaming, etc (which together forms a huge cost which I'm trying to reduce without having an impact on me).

    The real "Karma" for me comes from donating to all the free/donateware I use on a regular basis, however small. Yamipod, iTuneMyWalkman, Core Duo Temp, etc.
  15. 7on macrumors 601


    Nov 9, 2003
    Dress Rosa
    Also of note, Apple doesn't pay the chinese workers. Apple pays Foxconn (or Asus, etc.) for parts and labor and in turn those companies pay their workers. If Foxconn quotes 4 million for a shipment of pods Apple's not going to give them 7 million out of the goodness of their hearts and "expect" Foxconn to play their employees more. The same would happen if you go to the Apple store and try to give them $600 for a $300 iPod. If you insist them taking it odds are the employee would just pocket the money.
  16. theBB macrumors 68020


    Jan 3, 2006
    Well, low labor cost is what drives all of these companies to move manufacturing into China. If we take away that advantage, those workers would not have a job and would be earning even less. Even though, I'd like them to be paid decently, there is no need to feel guilty just because they are not getting paid as much as they would in a Western country.

    This situation will not last forever. The labor costs will increase there eventually while Chinese companies move to higher value added sectors. This is already happening, as there are more than a few world class Chinese companies and labor costs have been rising there recently. Of course, now manufacturing is moving into Vietnam, and eventually, I'd guess, it would move to Africa.
  17. OldCorpse macrumors 65816


    Dec 7, 2005
    compost heap
    Morality has NOTHING to do with it. I don't use illegal software for one reason only - it's ILLEGAL. I've always found a way to get my software legally, for relatively low prices. Sometimes I buy them off friends who no longer use them (I get the discs and so on, so it's not just using a copy of their stuff).

    But morality? Please. Here's a newsflash for you: many companies DESPERATELY WANT you to pirate their software. Not too long ago a mini scandal broke out because users traced a bittorrent back to the original software company. That company didn't want to make their software free, because they still made a lot of money from corporate users as well as those who paid up. But they needed to broaden their market. So the best way was to "donate" an apparently pirated copy and let a bunch of students learn their software. In time, those students move into the workplace, or otherwise get enough $$$ to buy it (a la the OP), and bingo! The company is a winner. Meanwhile, their competitor who didn't go that rout, slowly saw their market shrink as folks got hooked on a product they knew thanks to pirating. And the company that allowed - actually PROMOTED - piracy of their product? Guess what - that was no loss to them, since folks who pirate often cannot afford the software anyway, so it's not like "lost sales". This way, at least they hook a new generation of users on their product. That was pretty much the entire strategy of Microsoft in the third world - especially China. MSFT knew that an average Chinese was not going to donate their entire paychecks for a year for a copy of Windows. So NO LOST SALES ANYWAY. Meanwhile, the Chinese pirates established Windows a the default desktop OS for 1.5 billion people market! In time, as China grows richer, they'll be buying tons of software for Windows as well as Windows from MSFT. And what would have happened had MSFT been 100% successful in preventing piracy in China? China would just have used Linux or some other OS and MSFT would have been shut out of the market! Instead, MSFT dominates - 100% due to piracy! That's why MSFT closed their eyes to pirating - actually encourage it - in the third world. Of course, once they are dominant and have nothing further to gain - it's back to crying about piracy for them...

    What follows now is speculation. I have ZERO evidence for it. I may be 100% wrong. YMMV. However, I would not be totally shocked if Apple were not closing their eyes (not officially!) to a bit of pirating of FCP. Think about it. The dominant editing platform in the pro world is Avid. How do you dethrone that? Well, you raise a new generation of editors who grew up on FCP. They enter the workplace and use/demand/are comfortable with FCP, not Avid. But they are poor students. So you do a edu discount and edu versions. But many are still too poor. Take a page from MSFT. Let those suckers pirate. YOU ARE NOT LOSING SALES TO FOLKS TOO POOR TO PURCHASE EVEN AN EDU VERSION. So no loss. Sure there'll be some a*holes who could afford it, but prefer to pirate anyway, but thems the breaks. Meanwhile you educate a whole generation in FCP. One day, Avid wakes up, and sees: only old retiring editors use Avid - everyone has moved on to FCP (of course, FCP needs to be beefed up, since it is still miles behind pro level Avid, but FCP Extreme is almost here:)). Bingo. Apple won the market - thanks to pirating. Just like MSFT.

    Now, why do I refuse to pirate? Because I refuse to be forced to do illegal things. You want me to buy your software? Make it compelling. Make it affordable for me. Give me a trial version (FCP has none - many pirate, because they refuse to buy a pig in a poke). I refuse to learn your software by doing illegal things - you want me to switch to your platform? You want me to evangelize your software? Make it easy for me - no BS like forcing me to do illegal stuff which actually benefits you, but can hurt me if I get caught. You want the benefits? Give me LEGAL options. Until then, you lose.

    That's my stance wrt. music. I buy tons of music. I spend at least $2K a year on CDs. But I rarely buy stuff without listening first. I hear my friends CD (my friends are music freaks!), and if I like it, I don't burn it, I buy my own copy. If your company/band is too stupid to provide me with FREE samples - entire tracks, entire albums - then I won't buy it. And I won't spread the word. And you will lose out on a bunch of sales. And it'll serve you right. BECAUSE I REFUSE TO DO ILLEGAL THINGS THAT CAN SEND ME TO JAIL OR GIVE ME HUGE FINES - FOR MAKING YOU SUCCESSFUL AND DOING YOUR FREE MARKETING. You want me to market for you - give me a legal option.

    Bottom line: I think all software/music should have trial versions (not crippled). It is good for the developers and content creators and good for the buyers and consumers. But it should be legal. That's why I refuse to pirate.

    And morality has nothing to do with it.
  18. mcarvin macrumors regular

    Oct 26, 2003
    Southern NJ
    I remember trying to go from edu to commercial with Macromedia many years ago. I had to call them and they call center guy told me that I'm the kind of person they don't want as a customer. His supervisor was a bit more understanding and accommodating :D
  19. FredClausen macrumors regular


    Aug 7, 2006
    *golf clap*

    Excellent post.
  20. theman5725 macrumors 6502

    Aug 2, 2006
    I also switched over to legal software. For awhile I was using an "aquired" version of Microsoft Office but the rosetta was so anoying I switched to NeoOffice. It feels good to know all the programs on your dock are legal. :eek:
  21. srf4real macrumors 68030


    Jul 25, 2006
    paradise beach FL
    I wouldn't know how to get illegal software and don't want to... I trust the karma thing.
  22. livingfortoday macrumors 68030

    Nov 17, 2004
    The Msp
    Congratulations. I have also begun the process of replacing all my software with legal versions (albeit student versions), and it feels good to hold those CD's and DVD's in my hand!

    Way to go!

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