"In case of Bush victory, break glass"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Pessimist that I am, I had this thought:

    Assume the worst. It's Wednesday morning, and George Bush has been re-elected president of the United States.

    If such an unhappy situation comes to pass, are you willing to sit quietly and be enormously frustrated for another four years? Or do you think some action might need to be taken?

    Do you think we would need to organize and form a continuous series of protests, both in our own major cities and in Washington, D.C.? Do you think we will need to start a serious writing/calling/e-mailing campaign for Bush's impeachment?

    (Please don't ask "On what basis?" If you don't already know, you might want to check this out. Any number of things point to this administration's corruption and gross incompetence.)

    I don't know about you, but I don't think I could just sit and take it for another four years. I'd either have to get politically involved in some kind of movement like this, or I'd have to move out of the country.

    Probably the bulk of you are too young to remember Nixon's forced resignation, but it came more than anything else because the dissenters and protesters made such a huge amount of noise that it became impossible for him to get anything done. People wrote and called their congressmen demanding an impeachment.

    And I think that's what we would need to do here: make it impossible for the Congress to function as long as Bush is president.

    A side-issue here is the line of succession. Obviously, we'd have to include Cheney in any impeachment procedure. We sure don't want to see him sitting in the catbird seat. And we'd probably want to include some of Bush's war architects (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft) in the festivities as well.

    That still doesn't leave us in a terrific place: Speaker Dennis Hastert would assume the president's role. I think, however, that any such protest/impeachment effort -- especially if it was similar in scope to the one Nixon faced -- would throw a big enough scare into the neo-cons that it would make them behave themselves. At least for the remainder of the term.

    What do you think? Worth the effort? Or would we just whine and take it for another four years?

    Right now, this is just a philosophical exercise. In two days, it might be something we have to take seriously.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    If you could do it to Nixon, you can do it to Bush.
     
  3. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #3
    If Bush wins fairly, I think the American people deserve whatever is wrought upon them. It's the rest of the world I feel sorry for.
     
  4. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #4
    Much easier said than done. Much easier -- especially in the current governing environment. The Democrats in Congress can't even bring a bill to the floor, let alone organize Congressional investigations of the kind that brought down Tricky Dick. The only hope would be if the Democrats retook the Senate.
     
  5. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #5
    Well, that's why I said the pressure would have to be brought by the people. We'd have to flood Congressional offices with letters and calls of outrage. We'd have to take to the streets so that it would be seen on the news -- *ahem!* the "liberal" media -- constantly.

    I worry more that the public, even the half of us that are royally p***ed at Bush, doesn't have the will for such a prolonged endeavor.
     
  6. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    The focus necessarily would have to be on the 2006 elections. Whichever party wins the White House in 2004 is going to have hell to pay in two years.
     
  7. LeeTom macrumors 68000

    LeeTom

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    #7
    I think it may get ugly. I've heard people talking about trashing republican offices, posting flyers around the city with names and addresses of republican donors... I think that the "left" plays pretty fair most of the time, but that time may be coming to an end.

    I don't know exactly what I'm going to do, but let's put it this way:
    I'm willing to make some sacrifices in my life to help this country.

    Lee Tom
     
  8. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #8
    As nice as it sounds, it won't happen. After 30+ years the American people have changed for the worse IMO. Some it their fault, other due to factors that they could not control.

    Look at 2000 and the election. Where was the outrage? Look at 2001 and the USPA, where was the outrage? Hell, the Congress admitted that they never even read the laws they pass!

    Who can blame the American people? Their jobs are being sent overseas. Their employers are going offshore to escape taxes. In major cities it is almost impossible for a single person to live on their own any more. People over 40 are no longer counted as unemployed because they have been out of work for so long. That basic healthcare is out of reach for those most in need. Add to that many will not take the time to look into the issues unless they can get it in a 15 second sound bite on the evening news.
     
  9. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #9
    If there is going to be any legislative action (impeachment, investigation, etc.) against Bush, the Democrats will first have to retake the House and Senate. Remember that the opposition party controlled the legislature during Watergate, Iran-Contra and the Clinton Impeachment. It will be next to impossible to do this to Bush unless the Democrats take the legislative branch.
     
  10. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #10
    A good point. I was hoping that public pressure would "help" the GOP-led Congress come to that conclusion on their own, but I think it would probably take more.

    The other major factor in the Nixon affair was that the press was coming out with something every day that made Nixon look like a liar. I recognize, however, that the mainstream media seem to have been castrated in that regard.

    Absent a new Woodward/Bernstein -- someone with the balls and determination to go after Bush -- public pressure alone might not be enough.

    It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the press could get involved, though. You could try to dig up more on why Bush was determined to invade Iraq from the first week of his administration...how much his connection to the Saudis has influenced his decision-making...why he said he'd veto a defense bill that wouldn't give a no-bid contract to Halliburton...why he ignored the original OBL memo...why he altered the intelligence report he sent to Congress.... Hell, there's a whole host of shady things, and they add up to 1000+ needlessly dead American soldiers.

    Jesus Christ, if Clinton could get impeached for a blow job, we should be able to nail Bush on something.
     
  11. howard macrumors 68020

    howard

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    #11
    if bush is elected again i'm gonna get the hell outa here as soon as i can.

    this country is not doing well at all...
     
  12. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #12
    More reasons that we should have term limits for the Congress and Senate.
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Frankly, the death of 1,000 Americans pales into complete insignificance next to the 100,000 they went to Iraq to kill in the name of Christian Democracy. Perspective is all. Bush & Co should be tried for War Crimes before an international court. Belgium could have done it, but chickened out by changing their laws to disempower themselves.

    Remember this?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2886931.stm

    Such a nice, moral man, that Mr Powell.
     
  14. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #14
    I'm losing more and more respect for him.

    I think Bush could be tried as a war criminal. We arrested Saddam for killing thousands, how many has Bush killed? No ties to Al Qaeda and no WMDs = illegal war. Everyone is probably just too afraid to do something about it. They wouldn't want us invading them.

    Wouldn't that be funny though if the rest of the world attacked us and took out our leaders? Not funny ha ha, more like funny uh oh. Not that we don't kinda deserve it.
     
  15. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #15
    I'm ashamed to say that I forgot to mention that perspective. You're absolutely right.


    I got pissed off listening to my local Salem radio station the other day. Twice they espoused the idea that captains of industry like Pete Coors were the ideal kind of people to be senators and representatives. Heads of industry! Yeah, like Congress isn't full of whores already.

    There was the strongly implied position that average people, like schoolteachers and farmers, need never apply. So much for "of the people, by the people, for the people".

    As far as Powell goes...well, I'll reserve judgment. Given the fact that he long ago expressed his desire to get out of the Bush administration at the end of this term, I think he's just parroting the Bush party line without necessarily agreeing with it.

    As to a Bush war crimes charge...now that would be sweet irony!
     
  16. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #16
    Well? (He said, before the final results were in.) What do we do now?

    The way I see it, we have four choices:

    1. Start protests and riots like we haven't seen since the '60s, in the hopes of getting Bush and Cheney impeached and thrown out, leaving House Speaker Dennis Hastert as president.
    2. Start to talk seriously about having the more liberal states secede from the union. I'm not kidding. Xtremehkr proposed the same idea re California in the "Election Results" thread.
    3. Move out of the country.
    4. Continue business as usual.

    I don't see 4 as being a real option. Maybe I'm just discouraged, maybe I'm outright pissed, but I don't think you can "educate" people to see the liberal (or even the moderate) point of view in this country any more. You can't win the hearts and minds of people if those hearts and minds are closed. Five of the last seven administrations have been conservative, all three branches of government are conservative, and the old conservatives have given way to the scary right-wing fanatics. These "Christians" are doing the opposite of just about everything Jesus taught, but they are so filled with piety! You just can't reach people like that.

    So again...what do we do now??
     
  17. LeeTom macrumors 68000

    LeeTom

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    #17
    I vote for #2 :(
    I wish it wasn't necessary, but I'm with you.
    Unfortunately, if Bush wins here, my next stop will be jail.
    I'm that mad.

    But when I'm back, I'll be fighting the good fight.

    Lee Tom
    signed out, for now...
     
  18. jackieonasses macrumors 6502a

    jackieonasses

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    #18
    Being an easy guy, i surprisingly didn't get upset. Nor will i voice my true opinion on the matter. Yes, i am a christian, and by voting for bush, that keeps my morals intact. If Kerry would of won tonight, i wouldn't of started a thread on how to overthrow the presidency, honestly Bush isn't THAT good, but he is better (according to my beliefs)

    Please enlighten me on how i am doing the opposite of what Jesus taught?
     
  19. Mike Teezie macrumors 68020

    Mike Teezie

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    #19
    I don't know what to do, or how to describe the way I feel.

    I would rally with any of the like minded people on this board to do whatever it took to perserve a certain way of life. Anything.

    There is just too much hate in this country for me. Too much fear.

    Maybe I am like you TV - just shocked, saddened.....pissed. But I honestly feel in my heart, that there are dark times ahead.

    What should we do?
     
  20. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #20
    But I am sure you wanted Clinton out for a BJ. So lying to the nation. 100K+ deaths on lies is Ok as a Christian? Talk about morals.

    But maybe we need to start impeachment proceedings for the lies that Bush and Cheney have told us so far.
     
  21. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #21
    Forget impeachment -- it's never going to happen, and it wouldn't be a good thing if it did. Don't set aside how you feel about this election, but focus those feelings on what we can do to make a new reality in 2006 and beyond.
     
  22. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #22
    Thomas, I am not sure how to respond. My lover and I are looking at options to leave the country. It is hard to remain in a country that allows for a liar to remain in office. And a leader that feels my lover and I have no rights in "his" world.

    I have lost faith in the "people". I wish I were part of the "base" of Bush. A friend of mine's husband has been unemployed for over 2 1/1 years. He is an accountant with 20+ experience , living smack dab in the middle of NYC an Philli. He is no longer "counted" as unemployed. Though he looks for a job every day.

    My lover was "downsized". He suffered a "major" illness that took him out of the workforce for 3 to 4 weeks. Since then he has earned half his wage, since employers don't have to take on the benefits of an worker that is over 40 years old.

    The only "upturn" in the economy for us is that my homes value just seems to go up every day. Some would say sell. But where are we to move to? We pay about 1k in mortgage and taxes on the home that by "stats' a 3 bedroom home. Though by most accounts is a 2 bedroom home. Regardless our incomes are not increasing, yet every thing else is. Like most everyone else, other than the Bush "base".

    Add to that we don't enjoy ANY benefits that a "married" couple could enjoy. We have to stand alone AFTER 12 years together. That is longer than many of our "straight" friends.

    Too bad with the vote, it is a slim chance to impeach the liar he is. It looks like Rove won. NAd we all will pay the price over the next 20+ years.
     
  23. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #23
    Right you are IJ. We need now to focus on changing the make up of the Capital; since Bush has never seen a bill that he can't Veto.
     
  24. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #24
    Sadly, I think your best choice is another country. Read it and weep, though I wish it were different.

    States enacting legislationg or constitutional ammendments against gay marriage and civil unions:
    Arkansas 75%
    Georgia 77%
    Michigan 59%
    Mississippi 88%
    Montana 66%
    North Dakota 73%
    Ohio 62%
    Oklahoma 76%
    Oregon 57%
    Utah 66%
     
  25. MOFS macrumors 65816

    MOFS

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    #25
    By breaking these religious "just war" rules

    I'm fairly certain that the US and her allies have neither done it through the UN (dur!) or a using appropriate firepower (missiles on weddings anyone?) or even know why they're at war! So, since this is a Christean ideology, doesn't that leave you in a bit of a quandry? :confused: :D :D
     

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