In iTunes War, France Has Met the Enemy. Perhaps It Is Franc...

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. macrumors bot

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    #1

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    Category: Apple Services
    Link: In iTunes War, France Has Met the Enemy. Perhaps It Is France.
    Description:: University of Chicago Business School economist criticizes France for the recent DRM law. Says Apple is not the bad kind of monopolist that stifles competition and then raises prices. Instead, it created a new market through innovation and thus benefits consumers.

    Posted on MacBytes.com
    Approved by Mudbug
     
  2. macrumors 603

    Stella

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    #2
    What benefits consumers is a universal DRM standard so consumers can buy from whatever music store they like, and play the music on whatever device they like.

    No doubt some bright 'genius' will enlighten this forum by saying 'easy - you just burn and rip'... Not the answer, it takes time and degrades quality.

    The current DRM mess is anti-consumer.
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    #3
    They didn't create a new market, the just made a easy to use market. The "works with iPod only" DRM is just a bad idea all the way around.
     
  4. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
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    #4
    As are all DRM systems. It makes no sense that I have to pay for music and then I am limited with what I can do with it.
     
  5. macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #5
    The market they created was the integrated system. By developing their own system, the consumer knows what they are getting.

    Let me ask this - if iTunes dropped Windows support, and Apple said that the iTunes DRM could only be used on Mac compatible software - what would happen?

    Remember antitrust is not designed to benefit the consumer directly - it is there to ensure that competition is possible. That is already the case with the iPod and iTunes (although I would love to see Creative/iRiver/Yahoo music/Napster capitulate and admit that they cannot compete because of Apple's dominance)...And with a luxury good, there is an even more tenuous hold on the consumer harm idea - not having an mp3 player is not a sign of poverty and haivng one is not fundamental to participating in society...
     
  6. macrumors 68000

    crees!

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    #6
    Yes! Off with their heads! :mad:
     
  7. macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Yes, off with their heads for not allowing Apple or ANYONE to maintain a DRM monopoly. I'm glad that someone passed the law. I am not amused that anyone thinks that I have to pay for something and then still not be allowed to do whatever I want with it.
     
  8. macrumors regular

    askthedust

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    #8
    imho

    I agree DRM is a pain, but I also like buying albums for 10 bucks already formatted for my ipod. it's what i would do with the cd anyway. right now i buy based on which format is cheaper. I have no use that would exceed what apple's DRM limits me to so I have no real complaints about it. I've had to reset my allowed computers with apple after selling a G4 tower and it was a painless process and done within 24 hours. I would rather be able to buy 10 dollar albums with some minor DRM than keep paying 11.99 to 14.99.....
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    crees!

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    #9
    iTMS DRM is not a monopoly. You don't need an iPod to download from the store and you can put your songs on ANY device you want. Sit and think about that one for a second before spouting out more whinage. If you don't like it, don't use it.
     
  10. macrumors 68040

    Gasu E.

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    #10
    A repetition of a tiresome mantra that makes no attempt to respond to the excellent points made in the article. You can do better than this.
     
  11. macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Uh, the last I heard you CANNOT put any songs you buy from iTunes on anything other then the iPod as Apple refuses to license Fairplay.

    This is the problem with people who blindly support anything Apple does; they refuse to see the bad. I bet even Apple doesn't like the DRM, but we KNOW they have to put it in. Even Apple's own documentation advises against the use of DRM.

    EDIT: And no, it doesn't count if you burn the bought song and re-rip it as that degrades quality and defeats the whole point. This is not a standard feature and a huge pain for something you've already paid for.

    \/\/\/ Is the method I stated above what you're talking about? I sure hope not...
     
  12. macrumors 68000

    crees!

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    #12
    True, but like I said, think about it because you can, and legally I might add.
     
  13. macrumors 603

    Stella

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    #13
    The article is generally lame and overall negative with an Anti French tone. Negativity example:
    "If the French gave away the codes, Apple would lose much of its rationale for improving iTunes. Right now, after the royalty payment to the label (around 65 cents) and the processing fee to the credit card company (as high as 23 cents), not to mention other costs, Apple's margin on 99-cent music is thin. Yet it continues to add free features to iTunes because it helps sell iPods."

    Actually, no, it will force Apple to keep itself competitive with other stores, so to encourage users to buy from iTMS.

    Competition is Good, it *encourages* innovation.

    "Even worse, sharing the codes could make it easier for hackers to unravel Apple's FairPlay software. Without strong copy protection, labels would not supply as much new music. Indeed, Apple argues that sharing the codes could make the pirates' job easy enough to wipe out the legal market. Agitators might claim that this is the very goal of the French bill: why else would it also reduce the maximum fine for consumers caught illegally downloading music from 300,000 euros (about $371,000) to just 38 euros (less than $47)?"

    Again, negative statement. Fairplay has already been hacked. Whats the difference? Hackers will always find ways around the protection - and since iTMS and fairplay is dominant - it will receive the most attention from hackers. At the end of the day - no difference between now and a unified DRM method.

    As long as record labels see that there is a lot of profit ( and potential future profit ) with online stores, they aren't about to pull their content. If they did so, they will be in the same position as 3 years ago - a lot of online piracy.
     
  14. macrumors regular

    backupdrummer

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    #14
    Where do you download iTunes songs to? Anyone? Anyone? Your computer. Fairplay is compatible with any modern computer running either OSX or Windows. Once you have purchased a song the consumer has many choices for what they do with thier music, mix playlists, burn cds, use them as iMovie soundtracks, etc. Oh yeah and if they would like transfer them to an Apple iPod.

    I think this will end up being the flaw in anyones arguement about opening up Fairplay. I have agreed to download to my computer not directly to my iPod. On the computer side i can move all around from pc to mac with out a hitch. This was a gray area when the store only sold music but as the video biz has taken off I think it shores up that Apple has 2 businesses: selling people content for thier computers and making various content available on the go with the iPod. They are not using anticompetetive tactics for either of those 2 separate businesses.

    I find it a strech to say that to say that the 2 businesses that are not anticompetitive when put together are anticompetative since neither necessitate the other.

    I think it would be a good business move for Apple to open up Fairplay so that the other music stores can be used to sell music that is able to be played on an iPod. I think it makes strong business sense. Apple currently does not give a rates behind what about my opinions on how htey should run things. Case in point, .Mac should be bundled with iLife and the whole package sold annually for $140.
     
  15. macrumors 6502

    briansolomon

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    Murfreesboro, TN
    #15
    What is this? France isn't backing down from a war! This is news in itself
     
  16. Ugg
    macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #16
    I don't know why people keep spouting this bs. All you have to do is burn the music to a cd as mp3 and then import it to WHATEVER device your tiny little heart desires. Admittedly, it takes an extra step but you MOST CERTAINLY CAN do this.

    Once again, it's not Apple that insists upon the DRM, it's the music companies. They did not want the music to play on anything other than the iPod. When the iTMS came out, iPods were Mac only, this allowed the record companies to experiement in a narrow niche market. Don't blame Apple, blame the labels.

    Sure, the playing field and mindset has changed, but I sure don't hear the labels clamoring for relaxed DRM.

    There will come a day when Apple and the labels are forced to change, that day, however, has not yet arrived and I figure it'll be another 2 to 3 years before it does.
     
  17. macrumors regular

    backupdrummer

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    #17
    I don't believe that Fairplay has been hacked (sans the often stated burn rip method). A while back DVDJohn hacked iTunes so that it denied the music store from wrapping a Music store song in the DRM upon the initial download.

    That is a pretty silly thing to say, There is a world of difference between hackers in the shadows breaking layers of protection so they can listen to Kelly Clarkson on what ever portable player they want and a Corporation such as Apple licensing and supporting other companies to use thier DRM device.
     
  18. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    #18
    I 100% agree that it's the labels that enforce the use of DRM, but that doesn't really change the fact that the lack of a universal DRM standard really makes using music between different devices a pain.

    As well, it's NOT BS that you can't put it on another device right after downloading it from iTunes. You can't, you have to strip the DRM from the MP3 first. I don't understand how anyone can consider that a normal step to take. You paid for it and you STILL have to spend time so that you can use it normally. The law is supposed to eliminate this step as it will allow companies to make their devices read all types of DRM'd music.
     
  19. macrumors 603

    Stella

    Joined:
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    Canada
    #19
    It has been hacked, I think you should look further.



    Once again the Apple apologists come out in force to defend Apple.

    I'm not surprised, since this is an Apple related site.

    It should be able to go to another online music store and be able to play music on my Mac and on my iPod, unfortunately this is not possible. You can burn -> rip, but not using a Mac ( using other DRM methods other than Fairplay ). Once again, this takes *time*, and process that no one should have to go through. A standard DRM format would remove these problems.

    Overall, that article was pretty damned lame, one sided bias.
     
  20. macrumors member

    wedge antilies

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    Adelaide, Australia, MAAAATE!
    #20
    wow....racism, what a surprise

    I could take you seriously if only your history lessons weren't based on Leno monologues....:rolleyes:
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    Los Angeles
    #21
    You know what else bugs me? I pay good money for a CD and I have to open the package, put the CD in my computer, and then WAIT for the songs to be converted! This sometimes takes several minutes! But that's not all. Sometimes, there are errors in the tags!! I have to correct this myself. Then, get this, I have to run an applescript if I want to get the album art. Finally, those jerks at the RIAA actually make me plug in my iPod for the song to transfer!! This outrages me! If I pay for a CD, I should have the music on my iPod without all this extra effort!
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    Photorun

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    NYC
    #22
    Nice backpeddle with a "well, the article is lame," nice, you didn't hurt your mantra, it's easy to not listen when you keep plugging your ears.

    What's missed is Microsuck has DRM but you keep whining that only Apple should open up their DRM. Again it's the old double startard, because Apple innovates and makes best they have to suffer, idiots like M$ can go free with impunity. If you were really not being so disingenuous there Stella you'd point out EVERYONE should open up their DRM, if not, then NOBODY should open up their DRM. It's all or nothing, not just Apple.

    And last time I checked you can go buy another player or download from another service, Apple has the market perhaps on the BEST player and the BEST music store but their others. Should XM play Sirius satellite stations or HBO carry Cinemax programming or XSux play Playstation games? Don't like iTMS? Great, go somewhere else or buy a peecee, but stop your damn whining, you sound vaguely... uhhh, French.
     
  23. macrumors 603

    Stella

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    Canada
    #23
    I have set out reasons to why I think the article is lame... I don't know what you are trying to say?!!!!

    Do you know what 'standard' means?

    Obviously, I assumed too much when I'm talking about a 'Standard DRM' / 'universal DRM standard' I wouldn't have to explicity mention all other DRM providers because this 'standard' DRM would apply throughout, not just Apple.

    But hey, I'm expecting too much...

     
  24. macrumors 68000

    FreeState

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #24
    Im upset I cant just put my records, cassette tapes and cds on my iPod automatically. Why can't I just put them on my iPod and simple they play-
    Oh I get it what you buy from iTunes is not a recored, cassette tape, cd etc... its an Apple AAC file. Im sure thats how a court of law would look at it too.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    #25
    Wow, way to go the completely wrong way. You are buying the songs on a COMPLETELY different medium. When you buy an iTunes song you're buying a digital copy of song which, like any normal digital copy, should be able to be played on any machine or device without any extra work.

    It's not acceptable that I have to do extra work just to make something I bought a digital copy of work with more then proprietary software. It's acceptable that CD's don't transfer to the computer using your mind, it's acceptable that your iPod doesn't get up and plug itself in and transfer the songs by itself, and it's acceptable that other physical formats require you to transfer them yourself. The advantage of the digital media is that you can do anything with it right off the bat.

    EDIT: Why does everyone think that this French law only applies to Apple? It applies to EVERY music provider that uses DRM that sells music in France.
     

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