In Secretly Taped Conversations, Glimpses of the Future President

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #1
    Surprised nobody has posted this one yet. A very much abridged version of the article run in the NYT on Saturday:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics/20talk.html
     
  2. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Dammit, IJ, you beat me to it!!! :D

    Well, now that my thread is liable to get Wastelanded, let me repeat what I had to say about this:

    Frankly, I'm less interested in the guy who made the tapes than I am in the insight they give us into how Bush thinks. If you want to call it that.

    Bush apparently believes not being forthright with people about his past problems is the best way to handle it. While he's not outright lying about his past, he's evasive as hell...and now we know how he justifies that evasion.

    That just doesn't make sense to me. I believe that kids would respond much better to openness and honesty than they would to Bush's dissembling. What's wrong with admitting you used it and telling kids that you believe, from experience, that it's a mistake?

    The cocaine thing...I don't know what to make of it. Even on the tape, Bush is circuitous enough that he could still claim he never used it. But I think most people will interpret his comments as a tacit admission that he did indeed abuse coke.

    As far as Bush's stance on gays...well, all right, I applaud him for his own tolerance, but obviously he feels it's as important to pander to his evangelical base.

    I also don't know how he reconciles not personally believing in smear campaigns, while his staff and supporters engage in them with obvious glee.

    I don't know that these tapes change anything, but they sure are an interesting look into what Bush truly believes, or says he does.
     
  3. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #3
    So. Wead alleges that Bush smoked Weed. How odd!
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    i'm still waiting for word from Frank Kokane and Anna Oborshun.
     
  5. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #5
    Or her sister, Anita?
     
  6. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #6
    That revelation must have really knocked the reporter for a loop. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #7
    This all seems a little contrived to me. It is nothing that we did not already know about. And it comes out at a time when the Jeff Gannon debacle should be taking center stage.

    The answers that Bush gives are still politically correct in a lot of ways, especially his answer about why he is not being honest about past drug use.

    Considering the tight controls that this group keeps over potentially dmaging information, this kind on oversight on Roves behalf is completely out of character.

    Who cares if he smoked pot. Spreading propaganda through press plants is a much bigger deal, especially when there is pontential collaboration from the FBI.

    All of the media outlets have jumped on this and there is really not that much to it. Red herring.
     
  8. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #8
    Yeah, I'm looking at that bit from the story and trying to decide what to make of it myself. From the story:
    Now, if he really didn't know that the conversation was being recorded, and if he really was speaking to an "old friend" (who would likely know if the rumors were true), why would he say, "... if somebody shows up, [the allegation] is going to be made up"? I think I'd like to hear this part of the conversation in context, or at least read transcripts of it.
    Well, the people who already believe that he abused cocaine will certainly see it that way, and that's fine. I'm still not sure why would he feel the need to be (as you say) "circuitous" in a conversation that he didn't know was being recorded.
     
  9. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #9
    I almost floated the "Rove is somehow behind this" theory (*) in my previous post, but I felt sure someone would get around to it sooner or later.

    (*) See also the "Rove forged the Rathergate memos" theory.
     
  10. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #10
    From the Independent on Sunday Oct 31st 2004,
    Hunter S Thompson: More fear and loathing on the campaign trail


    He's covered US politics for decades and knows both the President and the man who could take his place. And, for Hunter S Thompson, this week's election boils down to a simple choice - between a 'pathetic fascist stooge' and a 'smart and brave, decent man'

    By Robert Chalmers


    31 October 2004



    The first time I noticed George W Bush," Hunter Thompson tells me, "was when he passed out in my bathtub at the Hyatt Regency in Houston. He was with a guy who had come to sell..." Thompson, sitting at his desk in a faded-green dressing-gown, stares down at a plate of untouched food: Danish pastries which were warm half an hour ago, smothered in red jam and melted ice-cream.

    Unfortunatley I can't link to the full interview as its subscription only. However Thompson describes Dubya arriving with someone else to sell coke and then passing out in his Bathtub.I believe he was accurately saying what happened. RIP HST.
     
  11. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #11
    DailyKos is constantly presenting every scrap of information concerning all of these issues. It would be easier to check there every now and then rather than link everything that they come up with. Right now there are some interesting stories about USANext who have hired the Swift Boat Vets to help them trash the AARP.

    But as far as this story goes, it's just more smoke and mirrors. Despite all of the other fluff, the President basically justifies why he denied using drugs, politicizing peoples children by suggesting that the President has a role in whether or not kids smoke marijuana at a young age.

    It's a great political answer, and would have been a great defense if any real proof of his drug use had come out, as far as defending why he lied about it.

    The Clintons just needed slimier advisors who would have thought of answers like that during his Presidency. I know that it is not their agenda, but then your opponents hire Ellsworth Toohey (Karl Rove) you have to do something.

    [​IMG]

    Not entirely a thread jack I hope, it all falls under the umbrella of media manipulation.
     
  12. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #12
    I'll bet you do, chief, I'll bet you do. It's too bad Karl Rove had Hunter killed (and then staged things to make it look like suicide).
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Don't forget that he was also probably involved in the 'killing' of Vince Foster too... And don't forget your tinfoil Stetson.
    :p
     
  14. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #14
    I'm not a conspiracy freak. Nor a Chief.
    There are non so blind as those that do not want to see.
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #15
    You're actually suggesting that Thompson had proof of Bush's coke using/dealing days??? Come on....
     
  16. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    I'm actually saying in the interview Thompson said he first met Dubya when he passed out in his Bathtub and I believe him.No there is no proof. Neither is there proof of Kennedy's Sexual shenanighans,I still believe it.
     
  17. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #17
    Now that Hunter Thompson has committed suicide. Or did he? :eek:
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    I know I should be prepared to duck, but I actually came away from the article thinking more highly of Bush. His answers and comments seemed at times fairly frank and more importantly fairly astute and pragmatic as someone who wanted to be involved in Politics.

    Were there some compromises (moral and otherwise) implied and explicit? Yes. I think that to a substantial degree that comes with the territory. I am sure most if not all politicians run that gauntlet. I may not agree with some of Bush's principles, but I am not going to let that allow me to hold him to an unrealistic degree of moral perfection because of that.

    I believe this shows Bush's (flawed) humanity and political aptitude, and I am fairly impressed. Whether this is a case of radically diminished expectations, I am not sure.
     
  19. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    as brilliant as the coke strategy was, it does indicate to me he's more interested in what's best for him than the truth. so what else is new in politics, huh? still...

    and fwiw, past drug use is _so_ far down on the scale of what i think is important in a candidate. i wish others felt the same.
     
  20. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    You know, Rove is such an ***hole that I'm almost paranoid enough to believe it.
     
  21. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    OMG, Bush smoked weed!!

    If he hadn't been a hard-drinking screw up from the ages of 18-40 or killed thousands of innocent Iraqis and sent our troops to die on a fool's errand, such a shocking revelation may have made me think less of him.

    This was "leaked" on purpose.

    It's praising with faint damnation.
     

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