Influence of The Israel Lobby

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by FFTT, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #1
    Yesterday WAMU's Diane Rehm dared to go where no other mainstream media outlet
    has dared to go before.

    She aired an interview with the authors of The Israel Lobby.

    Real Player http://www.wamu.org/audio/dr/06/06/r1060621-11074.ram
    Windows Media Player http://www.wamu.org/audio/dr/06/06/r1060621-11074.asx

    It's about time that such issues are discussed openly.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

    The authors have been both praised and threatened for this publication.

    Meanwhile, the mainstream media continues to ban the subject in entirety.

    Diane gets my brave little toaster award for journalism.
     
  2. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #2
    Apparently any discussion of Israel's role in the geo-political scheme of things
    is still taboo.

    I try to keep in mind how easily people are distracted from digging for truth.

    Crooks and Liars have hidden behind the robes of their chosen clergy to the very beginnings of recorded history.

    To me there is little difference between a corrupt Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or any other faith.

    Those who seek power and wealth will stop at nothing to achieve their goals.
     
  3. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #3
    I just don't think anyone has anything to add. I doubt anyone is surprised. But yeah, it is still kinda taboo for some reason.
     
  4. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #4
    Yeah, After doing quite a bit of research on the history of Pogroms I'm less impressed by Israel's blanket justifications for bad behaviour.

    Shall I claim that if I can prove myself to be of Cathar or Druidic descent I can justifiably commit atroscities? The difference between Jews and others who've been the focus of Genocide? The Jews have SURVIVED thousands of years of it where hundreds of other cultures did not. Not only have they survived, they've gotten good at recovering fairly rapidly. End result: as the group that could speak the loudest afterwards, they got the most attention.

    Never mind the Romani, the Slavs, the elderly, the infirm, the coloured, the genetically misfortunate who died in the millions along side them under Nazi rule. Never mind the horrors in Africa or the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia with millions of acres with soil completely obscured by crumbling human bones. Never mind the millions of aboriginal peoples wiped out in the Age of Exploration.

    None of them survived with enough capital or influence to protest.
     
  5. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #5
    I keep trying to imagine how different things would be here in the U.S.
    IF the Native American's had the power to regain what is absolutely
    rightfully theirs.

    It never ceases to amaze me how brutal and greedy our proclaimed "civilized" ancestors were when it came to indigenous populations.

    Even today, one can't help but notice how those who seek power and wealth
    still manage to manipulate legislation to benefit a chosen few, while ignoring the needs of those who need help the most.

    Why is it that people continue to follow corrupt leaders, when the masses
    clearly outnumber the chosen few?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

    In politics and sociology, divide and rule (also known as divide and conquer) is a strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. In reality, it often refers to a strategy where small power groups are prevented from linking up and becoming more powerful, since it is difficult to break up existing power structures.
    The phrase comes from the Latin divide et impera, which translates to "divide and rule".
    Effective use of this technique allows those with little real power to control those who collectively have a lot of power (or would have much power, if they could get united).
    Typical elements of this technique involve
    creating or at least not preventing petty feuds among smaller players. Such feuds drain resources and prevent alliances that could challenge the overlords.
    aiding and promoting those who are willing to cooperate with the overlords, often by giving them the lands and wealth of rebellious local rulers.
    fostering distrust and enmity between local rulers.
    encouraging expenditures on personal frivolities (e.g., showy palaces) that leave little money for political manoeuvering and warfare.
    This technique requires a lot of skill and political finesse, as well as a good understanding of political science, history and psychology.
    "Divide and rule" works only if the subjects of this technique are willing to go along with it (e.g., because it is to their personal advantage), or behave foolishly. It works best in societies where competition between noble families, clans or social classes was already fierce before the overlord took over.
    The strategy was used to great effect by administrators of vast empires, including the British and Roman, who would play one tribe against another to maintain control of their territories with a minimal number of imperial forces. The concept of 'Divide and Rule' gained prominence when India was a part of the British Empire, but was also the strategy used by the Romans to take Britain, and for the Anglo-Normans to take Ireland. The British used the strategy to gain control of the large territory of India by keeping its people divided along lines of religion, language, caste etc. The British took control of petty princely states in India piecemeal; doing the same that the Islamsits did and at times, still do.
     
  6. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    I think it's worth pointing out that support for Israel in the U.S. today is stronger than it has ever been due to the increasing influence of evangelical Christians in the government. They firmly believe in the role Israel and the Jews will play in Biblical end-times prophesies. The president professes to believe in end-times prophesies as well. So, it's got little to nothing to do with the Holocaust, pogroms or any other form of institutionalized anti-Semitism. I think I'd personally be a lot happier if it did. Anyone care to disagree?
     
  7. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #7
    I'm sure there are many Rapture Republicans who swallow George Bush's
    manipulative pandering with all the misguided beliefs of those who
    send their checks in to the 700 club.

    I can see how some end of timers might believe that being in debt up to their eyeballs doesn't matter because the rapture will free them from earthly responsibilites.

    2008 will free George Bush of all of his earthly responsibilities regardless of the disaster he leaves in his wake.

    If he honestly believes that undermining the Muslim faith is his God given duty, then he belongs in a maximum security asylum.


    I think it's much more realistic to believe that this administration worships
    money and those who enable them to hold positions of unrestricted power.

    Obviously, many of the wealthiest and most powerful business leaders
    have every reason to want someone like George Bush in power.

    Their proclaimed religious faith only leads to stereotyping, when religion
    has very little to do with the way they conduct business.

    The Israel lobby is just one of several extemely powerful factions that use their influence to achieve certain goals.

    If we follow the money trail to the top 100 wealthiest families in the world it might give us a better idea of who is really pulling all the strings.

    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/Rank_1.html
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    Good post.
     
  9. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #9
    "They firmly believe in the role Israel and the Jews will play in Biblical end-times prophesies. The president professes to believe in end-times prophesies as well. So, it's got little to nothing to do with the Holocaust, pogroms or any other form of institutionalized anti-Semitism."

    I'd disagree only as to the "little to nothing" part. I see it as a mix, with the "endtimes" thing being a Johnny-come-lately deal. Lots of folks see the Holocaust as relevant, even if they're not Jewish or Endtimers.

    FWIW, an old joke from my Univ.Fla daze was, "The longest supply line in the world is between Miami Beach and Haifa."

    "The difference between Jews and others who've been the focus of Genocide? The Jews have SURVIVED thousands of years of it where hundreds of other cultures did not."

    Seems to me there's a lesson there: How did they do it? It would be worth learning, I think, since without one's survival one's life ain't worth living. :D

    ''Rat
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    Mostly they did it by being scattered to the four winds very early on, so that subsequent efforts to eliminate them were always incomplete.
     
  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #11
    Exactly. I don't know why so many people are so amazed by the survival of Judaism. It's as though they expected Jews to be gone by now, along with dinosaurs and Dodo birds. I get the unfortunate impression that they're somehow disappointed.
     
  12. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #12
    Relevant to what? As I've pointed out before, during the Cold War, Israel was of geopolitical importance to the U.S. as one of the few places in the Middle East which was friendly to U.S. interests. The Soviets were influential in most of the rest of the region. So the support for Israel during this period had other obvious benefits. The relationship between the U.S. and Israel during this period of time can be easily understood in geopolitical terms. What is the point of looking elsewhere?
     
  13. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    And what are we to make of this?
     
  14. Queso macrumors G4

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    #14
    That Jewish people tend to work harder than non-Jews, and therefore have more money on average.
     
  15. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #15
    No, I don't believe that's the point being made at all, but I will allow the poster of this information to explain what he thinks it has to do with U.S. support for Israel.
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    Interesting that there are only 3 UK listings in the top 100, of which two are foreigners. I find this level of income obscene.
     
  17. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #17
    Honestly that's what struck me too.

    If you look at the world's wealthiest and the American top 100,
    there doesn't seem to be any noticable connection.

    What we don't see are the bankers, legal teams, publicists and advisors that make this kind of success possible.

    I must agree that these posted income levels are obscene.

    I can't help but wonder what kind of taxes these people pay on their
    financial holdings.
     
  18. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #18
    IJ, I was thinking more of the popular support than of the governmental support. No argument with your post...

    As far as Jews/money/influence, you can make a lot more money with your mind than with your back. If you can't own property, and are subject to pogroms, you tend toward portable wealth--which includes learning. Through the MIddle Ages, the Jews pretty much had a lock on many areas of learning/knowledge.

    Further, when as a group you're picked on, family and extended family becomes very important in the support-group sense. This increases the amount of capital available for investment.

    Over a few generations, family wealth can increase to very large amounts. Large amounts of money for politics can then help create a society without pogroms and thus more personal and familial security.

    Lotsa money is just another form of self-defense. Different in style from skill with a gun or karate, but still, self-defense. The advantage of money is that you can live well while being safe. :)

    'Rat
     
  19. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #19
    Doesn't happen until 2012. ;)
     
  20. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #20

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