Inherited PowerMac G5 - Should I keep it or sell it?

[Colpeas]

If you are based in Czech Republic, why bother with shipping & customs from the US? Bidding for the Quadro hasn't ended, so the price will probably go up a bit. At eBay.de there are actually some FX4500 available for sale. I wouldn't pay more than 30 EUR for the card itself, except you need it for professional work. A flashed X1950XT/X1900XT is the better card in terms of value for money and in relation to the value of a G5.

I saw those 4500's on ebay.de, but they generally cost more than I am willing to pay. The guy who listed the quadro on US ebay told me that he charges $18 for international USPS shipping, which is OK for me.
In Czech Republic, these cards are a rare commodity. There's plenty of X1950's, but those are mostly GT or Pro, which I believe, are not flashable. Same situation on ebay.de though...

I use my G5 (it's a Dual 2.0Ghz) for various tasks, including occasional video editing or light Photoshop/Illustrator/Dreamweaver stuff. But it serves me as a media centre most of the time - I have my 200+ GB lossless music library stored there, I watch movies on it, and I've also tried to play some classic games on it, but the basic 128MB DDR1 6600LE, which I'm currently stuck with, is just bad. Even the video playback is sometimes choppy...

This one is surely flashable for PPC. There are 2 versions of FX4500: one and two sided RAM chips. One sided are working with EFI ROM but not with PPC one, two sided are working with both ROMs.

I'd add video editing to this list. It's always better to have 512MB framebuffer than 256MB. My recommendation would be Quadro (or 7800GTX 512MB) for serious work (video, 3D, CAD), X1900 for other purposes as gaming and everyday tasks. Choice depends on what you're using your Mac for.

From you guys' statements I assume that a X1900 is generally a better GPU, is that right? My original intention was to buy that card from a fella who offers new X1900G5's on US ebay for, like, $110 a piece + cca $45 shipping to CZ.

But in case this quadro is flashable and wouldn't go over $70, do you think it is worth purchasing? I definitely need a new GPU and wouldn't mind investing to X1900, but if I can get this quadro for less, do you think I can go wrong with it? I am not much of a gamer, nor a pro, but I do little of both.

 

[666sheep]

From you guys' statements I assume that a X1900 is generally a better GPU, is that right?

It's not that simple. Hardware-wise it looks like this (memory bandwidth, core & memory clocks, texture units etc.):

7800GT < FX4500 < X1900 < 7800GTX 512

...but HW it's only a half. Drivers are doing the rest of job. ATI PPC drivers seems to be better tuned for hardware than Nvidia ones. It translates to worse results of Nvidia cards on PPC in OS X (in general) and lack of software overclocking ability. Only 7800GTX 512 flashed with proper ROM could outperform X1900GT in games.

Quadro cards have usually more RAM and do offer some hardware features unavailable for consumer grade cards. But software you're using must support these features.

My original intention was to buy that card from a fella who offers new X1900G5's on US ebay for, like, $110 a piece + cca $45 shipping to CZ.

You do have Aukro in Czech Republic. In Poland it's called Allegro. Aukro users can bid on Allegro and vice-versa. On Allegro there are some offers of various X1900 types for equivalent of ca. $30 + shipping. Check this out.
Flashing is easy. You can do it on a Mac. Graphiccelerator supports X1900GT ROM.

 

[Nameci]

It's not that simple. Hardware-wise it looks like this (memory bandwidth, core & memory clocks, texture units etc.):

7800GT < FX4500 < X1900 < 7800GTX 512

...but HW it's only a half. Drivers are doing the rest of job. ATI PPC drivers seems to be better tuned for hardware than Nvidia ones. It translates to worse results of Nvidia cards on PPC in OS X (in general) and lack of software overclocking ability. Only 7800GTX 512 flashed with proper ROM could outperform X1900GT in games.

Quadro cards have usually more RAM and do offer some hardware features unavailable for consumer grade cards. But software you're using must support these features.



You do have Aukro in Czech Republic. In Poland it's called Allegro. Aukro users can bid on Allegro and vice-versa. On Allegro there are some offers of various X1900 types for equivalent of ca. $30 + shipping. Check this out.
Flashing is easy. You can do it on a Mac. Graphiccelerator supports X1900GT ROM.

Correct me of my understanding, if I have 6600 on 8x slot, I would be putting the X1900 on 4x slot and I can flash using the ATI Graphiccelerator?

 

[666sheep]

Should work. I didn't flash that way personally because I don't have G5 now, but as ROM editor (GE) supports X1900 ROM, ATI Multiflasher should support it too. No matter what slot you'll use IMO, as long both cards will be recognized – or X1900 only using VNC or screen sharing. Use Tiger to do it.

 

[Nameci]

Should work. I didn't flash that way personally because I don't have G5 now, but as ROM editor (GE) supports X1900 ROM, ATI Multiflasher should support it too. No matter what slot you'll use IMO, as long both cards will be recognized – or X1900 only using VNC or screen sharing. Use Tiger to do it.

It doesn't work with Leo?

 

[666sheep]

Graphiccelerator does work, but ATI Multiflasher does not AFAIR.

 

[Nameci]

Graphiccelerator does work, but ATI Multiflasher does not AFAIR.

yes it doesn't work with Leo, I have like carbon error... time to backup and install tiger...

Update:

Installed Tiger on a separate partition. It works but I think flashing was not successful. Multi-flasher loads, Rom loads, what will i click to flash it? The "save" button?

Update:

I think I have bricked the card, it is not even recognized on the system profiler. BTW, it is an ATI X1900GTo 256mb as I have read from the back of the card.

 

[prvt.donut]

Ouch!

Am thinking of flashing today using ATI flash. Thanks for the rom thorn.

I have a Mac Pro to do this on, is there any advice I need to have before going ahead?

Should I put the card in as well as the Pro's current card so that I have the monitor connected to its regular card and flash that way? Or maybe it doesn't matter and I can just pull out the current card to avoid confusion with which card to flash?

Also, does the ATI flash tool let you load the rom in to the cd when creating the boot disk?

Just want to be sure I know what's gonna happen.

 

[666sheep]

Nameci, flashing procedure is described in Read Me located in Graphiccelerator folder.
Short: load ROM into flasher, run Run Me First then launch Multiflasher -> ATI Tools folder.

You can unbrick your card in a PC using DOS or Windows flasher. It's reversible.

 

[prvt.donut]

Can I use the Zeus tool to flash the card in the Mac Pro?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/877437/

 

[Nameci]

Nameci, flashing procedure is described in Read Me located in Graphiccelerator folder.
Short: load ROM into flasher, run Run Me First then launch Multiflasher -> ATI Tools folder.

You can unbrick your card in a PC using DOS or Windows flasher. It's reversible.

I have read the read me in the Graphiccelerator folder and followed instructions to the tee. Previously, sys info would identify the card but after flashing it did not. I have used thorns ROM and the card that I have flashed says X1900GTO. Anyway, what is the difference between a GT and a GTO?

 

[prvt.donut]

No one?

The Zeus tool looks like a good option, because the ATIflash tool needs a 32bit win box, and I only have access to 64bit machines.

Is it ok for me to flash my Mac Pro card to PowerMac ROM using the Zeus tool?

 

[666sheep]

I have read the read me in the Graphiccelerator folder and followed instructions to the tee. Previously, sys info would identify the card but after flashing it did not. I have used thorns ROM and the card that I have flashed says X1900GTO. Anyway, what is the difference between a GT and a GTO?

Thorns ROM has Device ID for X1950XT and that's why it doesn't work with your GTO (which is re-branded GT, no difference). Now it's 7244 and it should be 724B. Open thorns ROM in Hex Edit or similar app, change DID, save as new ROM the reflash on a PC and you should be good to go. Look for 44 72 in the beginning of ROM (values are endian flipped). Change 44 to 4B.

No one?

The Zeus tool looks like a good option, because the ATIflash tool needs a 32bit win box, and I only have access to 64bit machines.

Is it ok for me to flash my Mac Pro card to PowerMac ROM using the Zeus tool?

Probably. But don't bother with Zeus. It's too buggy and too picky when comes to cards support. Use DOS atiflash. You'll need to change DID in ROM to 7249 for X1900XT. Otherwise your attempt may end like Nameci's.

 

[prvt.donut]

Probably. But don't bother with Zeus. It's too buggy and too picky when comes to cards support. Use DOS atiflash. You'll need to change DID in ROM to 7249 for X1900XT. Otherwise your attempt may end like Nameci's.

Ok, thanks.

I have ran out of time for today, will try and get the boot CD made soon.

Can I make ATI Flash on a bootable USB drive? That would make life a bit easier too.

 

[666sheep]

OFC, you need to make it DOS bootable. I use Win ME rescue disc burnt on CD + small FAT partitioned HDD.

 

[Nameci]

Thorns ROM has Device ID for X1950XT and that's why it doesn't work with your GTO (which is re-branded GT, no difference). Now it's 7244 and it should be 724B. Open thorns ROM in Hex Edit or similar app, change DID, save as new ROM the reflash on a PC and you should be good to go. Look for 44 72 in the beginning of ROM (values are endian flipped). Change 44 to 4B.



Probably. But don't bother with Zeus. It's too buggy and too picky when comes to cards support. Use DOS atiflash. You'll need to change DID in ROM to 7249 for X1900XT. Otherwise your attempt may end like Nameci's.

Have found two instances, have changed it. Tried to flash thru graphiccelerator again since I am far from a PC, but still no go. It seems that it did not write to the card.

 

[Jethryn Freyman]

Look, your G5 is a geriatric and you will lose money if you try to upgrade it with fancy new stuff like GPUs or an SSD, they hit a point where their value will never increase until they become antiques. The only value in PPC Macs is nostalgia, and if you use one as your main machine and tweak the hell out of it to suit your needs.

My G5 tower cost $150. Spent $160 of RAM, $240 on the SSD, $80 on the 1TB HD, $30 on USB 2.0 PCI cards, $160 on the GPU. It's a bloody fast piece of tech, but your average user can get a pretty "well" specced PC for that money or an Intel Mac with the whole "Lion" gig for that cash.

EDIT: Posted from my 8 year old G5 tower which still performs like a champ.

 

[prvt.donut]

Look, your G5 is a geriatric and you will lose money if you try to upgrade it with fancy new stuff like GPUs or an SSD, they hit a point where their value will never increase until they become antiques. The only value in PPC Macs is nostalgia, and if you use one as your main machine and tweak the hell out of it to suit your needs.

My G5 tower cost $150. Spent $160 of RAM, $240 on the SSD, $80 on the 1TB HD, $30 on USB 2.0 PCI cards, $160 on the GPU. It's a bloody fast piece of tech, but your average user can get a pretty "well" specced PC for that money or an Intel Mac with the whole "Lion" gig for that cash.

EDIT: Posted from my 8 year old G5 tower which still performs like a champ.

Yeah, I know.

But I have the SSD sitting around anyway, and also got the GPU for free (just have to flash it).

I bought a super micro Bufallo USB bluetooth 4.0 dongle that arrived today from Amazon today because I have a spare Apple wireless keyboard and also a Mircosoft bluetooth mouse and a 8GB USB drive for me to copy Leopard to for doing a clean install to the SSD drive.

The only other thing I am going to buy for it specifically will be RAM. That is a bit expensive at about $60 for 2x2GB sticks, to about $240 to max it out, but I don't want to Max it out yet, just go month by month, bumping it up until it feels right, at the moment with 1.5GB I think that is limiting its potential a bit.

 

[prvt.donut]

Well that was a wasted evening.

I can't find my old leopard retail DVD so made a USB installer.

But couldn't boot into dev mode because using a windows keyboard and it just doesn't seem to work with the windows+alt+o+f combination. I read that some windows keyboards just won't send the signal in the first stages of boot.

In a long shot, I tried the Bluetooth keyboard and that didn't work either.

Grrrr.

I tried installing tiger from my original reinstall discs to the ssd, but when installing, it couldn't see the drive! When fully booted into tiger, the ssd drive is there as a second drive, so I am thinking it is just that the original version of tiger can't see it.

So, for now, I will just leave it for now as I clearly don't have the right tools.

Do you think if I can borrow an apple USB keyboard I can boot into dev mode and install leopard from the USB?

 

[666sheep]

Have found two instances, have changed it. Tried to flash thru graphiccelerator again since I am far from a PC, but still no go. It seems that it did not write to the card.

Since it isn't listed by ASP it cannot be flashed on a Mac ATM. That's why you need a PC.

 

[Nameci]

Since it isn't listed by ASP it cannot be flashed on a Mac ATM. That's why you need a PC.

Ok thanks, 6.

 

[MisterKeeks]

This one is surely flashable for PPC. There are 2 versions of FX4500: one and two sided RAM chips. One sided are working with EFI ROM but not with PPC one, two sided are working with both ROMs.

Is there anything else to look for when purchasing a Quadro?

 

[666sheep]

^^^Nope, this it's most important if you need a card for G5.

Ok thanks, 6.

There's another method which I have forgotten about: http://netkas.org/?p=1182

 

[Colpeas]

Do you think if I can borrow an apple USB keyboard I can boot into dev mode and install leopard from the USB?

Not sure, but all my attempts to install Leo from an USB drive have ended up unsuccessfully, no matter what I've tried. Perhaps I did something wrong, but in the end I had to burn a Leopard installation DVD anyway...

 

[jbarley]

Not sure, but all my attempts to install Leo from an USB drive have ended up unsuccessfully, no matter what I've tried. Perhaps I did something wrong, but in the end I had to burn a Leopard installation DVD anyway...

Excuse me if you've already answered this, but are you sure your USB drive was partitioned using the "Guid" partition map, which it needs in order to be bootable.