Installing Apps Confusion?

Discussion in 'macOS' started by UWF404, Feb 5, 2006.

  1. UWF404 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #1
    I'm a MAC newbie.. Ok, not exactly "new" but have only been using MACOSX for 14 months. And yet I'm still confused with installing programs. Can someone explain the disk image concept in plain english? When I install programs I don't want to see the annoying disk image icon on my desktop.

    How do I get rid of it? Why do some applications not install the disk image and others do? Once my application is installed what setting must I change to rid my desktop of virtual disk images??:confused:

    Sincerely,
    Clueless Newbie
     
  2. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #2
    DMGs or disk images are a common way of letting you see what you're installing before actually putting it in with your other applications. They act as an intermediate medium.

    Generally there is either an installer or an entire app inside the DMG. For the former, double click and select to install in your Applications folder. For the latter, drag the icon of the app to your Applications folder. In both instances, you should then drag the disk image and the file it came from (the downloaded file) to the Trash to get rid of them.

    Don't run apps from inside the DMG. :)
     
  3. Duff-Man macrumors 68030

    Duff-Man

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    #3
    Duff-Man says....these disk images are actually a good way to distribute software. The idea is that after the disk image mounts, you drag the program to your applications folder, or run its installer if it has one. Once that is done you just eject the disk image (drag its icon to the trash, or right-click/control+click and choose eject). There is no need to always have these icons on your desktop - only to install the program. After that you can store them where you want to in case you ever need to reinstall, or delete them if you prefer....oh yeah!
     
  4. UWF404 thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jan 6, 2004
    #4

    The problem I have is some applications keep running from the disk image. For example.. Today I installed Comic Life from Plasq. I installed by dragging icon to Application folder. I then ejected the drive but every time I start the application the Disk image icon pops up again on desktop. Same problem with my install of Firefox. I must be doing something wrong??
     
  5. mduser63 macrumors 68040

    mduser63

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    #5
    Yes, you're running the application from the copy in the disk image instead of the copy you just put in your Applications folder. I'm guessing that what's probably happening is that you're running the app from the disk image the first time (by double clicking it), then keeping the resultant icon in your Dock. The next time you click on that Dock icon, OS X automatically mounts the image and starts the app. Make sure the instance of the app you run is the one you copied to your Applications folder, and also make sure that that's the one you drag into your Dock.
     
  6. discoforce macrumors 6502a

    discoforce

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    #6
    Yup, mduser63 is correct. At the risk of being redundant, I'm really going to spell this one out because it confused the heck out of me after I "switched."

    1. Download application (You already did this with Comic Life and Firefox, and I must commend your excellent taste in software :cool: ). Doing so in Safari (and some other browsers) will automatically mount the disk image (i.e., it'll appear on your desktop and in your Finder window below your harddrive icon).
    2. With both Firefox and Comic Life a new window will appear. Simply click and drag the icon onto your applications folder.
    3. Watch the file copy itself into your apps folder.
    4. Now you can "eject" the disk image, run the app from your applications folder, and drag the application to your dock to run it from there if you prefer.
     
  7. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #7
    I'm sorry, but...

    I'm sorry, but the application installation process is just broken on macs. Yes, broken. No, I don't mean NOBODY can figure it out, just that it is utterly unintuitive and way, way, way, way, way, way too complicated. In fact, it goes against the entire Apple philosophy of shielding the user from unnecessary exposure to low-level processes. It is rather more like the (bad) approach of (*some*) linux developers who delight in nerdy fiddling at a very deep level of OS involvement. Sure, it can give you a lot of power (as can the command line), but there's a reason why Apple avoids that as a default. It is actually a very lazy way out for developers - any moron (I'm exaggerating, can you tell :) ) can develop something that gives a lot of power, and any moron can develop something that's simple to use but not very powerful. Only the GREAT designer can make something that is BOTH powerful AND simple to use.

    Uncharacteristically, for Apple, they've fumbled the app installation paradigm in macs. It's stupid. For crying out loud, WHY would you want to complicate this PARTICULAR process? It's not like the different aspects of installing apps in macs gives you somehow vastly different options... so what is the benefit of making it complicated? Why pay the heavy price of confusion and an ugly unintuitive process... for WHAT?

    You gotta be honest. Mostly Apple gets things right where Windows does not. Mostly. That's why I've switched platforms. But every once in a while the "other" platform gets something right (hey, even a broken watch is right twice a day!). It is quite, quite clear that the program installation process in window is vastly superior (though hardly perfect!) to Apple. Hurts to say it, but it's the truth.

    Again, I'm not saying it's impossibly difficult in Apple, but it certainly is more complicated (for what good reason... none), and harder to grasp. I am STILL confused by it after many weeks. It took me almost no time to learn the rest of the platform (so far!), but this... just sucks. Sorry.
     
  8. Catfish_Man macrumors 68030

    Catfish_Man

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    Sep 13, 2001
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #8
    Well, as an example, consider Adium's installation steps.
    1) click on the link, the file downloads, and automatically mounts and displays the dmg
    2) drag the file next to the arrow into the folder pointed to by the arrow*
    3) click eject in the sidebar

    That's it. Adium's installed. Doesn't seem terribly complex to me... (certainly less complex than the Firefox installation process on windows).


    *a lot of apps don't make step 2 as easy as we do. They should.
     
  9. plinden macrumors 68040

    plinden

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    #9
    Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I've been a Windows user on various versions since Win 3.1, and it's installation process is a mess. There are half a dozen, at least, installers in general use and there's nothing more confusing (well, except for Linux, but rpm and apt-get aren't that hard to get used to.)

    Windows installers may or may not give you the option of where to install the app, and may or may not give you the option of an icon on your desktop, or in the start menu or in the task bar or in the quicklauncher, or like Yahoo IM, if you are not paying attention, will install other apps like the Yahoo toolbar. Then to start the app, you either hunt for the shortcut icon, that may or may not be present on the desktop, or go through three or four levels in the Start/All Programs menu, where more often than not, the app is installed under the name of the company that produced it, rather than the name of the app!

    I've been a Mac user for, oh, 4 days now, and the first thing I installed was Deerpark (aka Firefox) and the dmg process was so unbelievably simple. Drag the app to Applications (since Safari opened it automatically), delete the dmg file. Even downloading from Firefox adds just one more step of double clicking the dmg file ... how much simpler could it be?

    Then try uninstalling from Windows - you may or may not have to go to Control Panel/Add or Remove Programs, and even then it keeps the registry full of cruft. And if you delete the folder of an application that needs to be deleted from Add or Remove Programs (through sheer stupidity, yes I've done that) you cannot remove it from Add or Remove Programs or the registry without hunting down some 3rd party shareware app that may or may not screw up your Windows install!

    Whereas now, all I have to do to uninstall is drag the app from Applications to Trash.
     
  10. kretzy macrumors 604

    kretzy

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    Sep 11, 2004
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    Canberra, Australia
    #10
    I find installing things in OS X 100 times easier than on Windows. As others have pointed out, in most cases it is usually a matter of drag and drop from the dmg to the Application folder. Then simply eject/delete/save the dmg. How much easier can it be?

    Installing/uninstalling on Windows always gave me a headache. While the initialisation may have been automatic, the actual installation is complicated and messy. Files and folders get created all over the place, programs are listed under company names rather than the name of the programs, things you don't want installed get installed anyway and they then prove difficult to remove.
     
  11. Tel macrumors regular

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    Dec 13, 2005
    Location:
    England
    #11
    I love .dmg files, they are one of my favorite things about OS X. Especially for installing new software. Think of a .dmg as a physical CD, when you insert it (open the file) the disk image appears on your desktop allowing you to instal the software then eject the disk, you can keep the .dmg file if you wish (I put all mine on my external hard drive, you never know when a company might go bankrupt and stop offering software) or you can delete it which would be like throwing the CD away.

    The beauty is, if there is an app on that .dmg, you can try it out before you decide to actually put it into your app folder, if you decide you don't want it, eject the disk, simple as. If there are files on the .dmg (like how I archive photos to .dmg images) I can mount the drive, edit some images and if I do something wrong then I can just re-mount the image and all my original files are there as they were.
     
  12. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    compost heap
    #12
    I'd never claim that app installation in Windows is perfect (in fact, I said specifically that it is NOT), but it is far less confusing as a process. The fact that when you install an app you may also install an unwanted Yahoo toolbar is not relevant - that can happen in a mac as well, it's unethical behavior by the soft vendor. You don't deal with multiple files you of which you have no idea which is the actual app - do I click on the .dmg to run an app... hmm, I've been running some apps from the .dmg, in fact I don't seem to be able to do otherwise with certain apps, but not other apps... seems like there are too many options (in windows there's ONE: .exe, to execute, pretty darn simple)... what are these drives that suddenly appear? Why do I have to unmount, or mount them, and why do I move them to the trash? And what do I move to the trash, and why do I have to do that? Am I moving the wrong thing to the trash? GAAAAAH!

    Here's how I'd see a simple way to install stuff: 1) click a link (or on a CD) 2) installation begins - if there are options, such as the number of components you want, then a window appears with buttons for those options including for example a non-default destination you may wish to browse to 3) installation completes to a specific DEFAULT folder (like the Application folder for mac, unless YOU wanted it somewhere else in step 2). End. Done.

    No extra .dmg files to deal with, no drives to mount or unmount, no icons to drag to any folders, no icons and files to throw into the trash (WTF??), no multiple icons and drives and images and crap you have no idea which is what. ONE icon. ONE program. In ONE default place (unless YOU specify otherwise). End of story. Uninstall? Right-click, delete. GONE. Every file gone. End of story.

    So, is the above "perfect" scenario the case with Windows or Apple or Linux? Nope. But Apple and Linux sure as heck lag behind Windows - which is NOT to say Windows couldn't be better... see above!
     
  13. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #13
    Are you joking? How much simpler can it get? See my post above. What in the world is this crap about "eject/delet/save the dmg" Come again? Why do I need to deal with that? "Drag and drop"? Why do I need to drag (drag WHAT? There's usually several files in those "drives")? And to where? No. No. And no again. I want to click ONCE, on ONE icon, it installs to ONE default folder (say, Applications) UNLESS I specify otherwise, and I'M DONE. FINITO BENITO. I'm not cleaning up anything, I'm not dealing with mounting and unmounting crap all. You think it's clear, but trust me, it is NOT intuitive, as countless folks can attest to (and newbies puzzled questions). I honestly to this day don't know which icon is which, and what I can remove and what not, and why in God's name are there extra drives for Pete's sake, suddenly appearing that I have to mount or unmount... WTF??

    Sorry, it is anything but obvious. "How much simpler can it be?" A LOT!!! And SHOULD be. Apple dropped the ball on this one. To make an analogy: how would you like it if in order to start a car, you had to hand-crank it (yes, that's how it was done), adjust the carburator, adjust the timing belt, and so on and on and on. NO. NO. I want to turn a key - or press a button (as is the case with some cars!) - and presto. Done. There is no earthly reason for me to open the hood of the car to start it. And there's no earthly reason I should have to clean up anything installing apps, and have multiple icons and drives where you have to know the function of each. WRONG. No good. Bad design. Kludge. Suckage.
     
  14. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    #14


    .....huh?

    You prefer an installation wizard to... dropping an app into a folder and being done? It's so easy in OSX... come on. Download the DMG... in its contents is your app. Drag that app into the applications folder and you're done. Eject the dmg, delete it if you want, or don't. Doesn't matter. Your application is installed.

    I just finished trying to setup a router via windows and felt like punching my screen. More nonsense than I've had to witness in a loooonnnggg time.
     
  15. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #15
    Well, we're just repeating ourselves here. Look, you keep skipping steps and saying "see how simple?". Well NO IT ISN'T. Just read what I wrote... is there really a point to my writing again what I just wrote? There are MANY files in your dmg image - how do you know which to drag? Why can't I just click on the dmg and it installs to the default folder - END OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS. Why do I have to OPEN the dmg? WHY? So that I can see more icons inside? Why? I don't know WHICH file to drag. Why can't I just click the dmg, and THAT'S ALL. OVER. But it isn't. Why does a DRIVE suddenly appear? So wait, now I have to click that drive? How do I know that? Why can't I click the dmg - and THAT'S ALL - APP INSTALLED. OK, so now I've got a drive - I have to open - I have to pick WHICH icon - I have to DRAG the icon to a folder... WHY? Why can't I click the dmg - and THAT'S ALL - APP INSTALLED. But wait, there's more. So, I dragged the file(hopefully the right one!) into the folder (ugh, so I have to maneouver toward some folder, awkward, awkward - why can't I just click on a dmg aand THAT'S ALL - APP INSTALLED) but now I have to CLEAN UP... hmm... what can I remove? Dmg? Maybe - but who says? After all, some of my apps only run FROM the dmg, so removing that removes my app (that's how my vlc app works!). How am I supposed to know? And how intuitive is it, that now I'm supposed to drag the "drive" to the trash - what happens to all those extra files in the drive apart from the one I dragged to the applications folder? AAAAARGH!

    Why can't I JUST CLICK ON A LINK OR CD AND IT INSTALLS THE APP TO A DEFAULT APPLICATION FOLDER AND I'M DONE!!! DONE!!!! You want simple? That's simple. Everything else is unnecessary crap. You want your app to be installed. That's all. You should only have to know to click once, and where to find it. That's it. Here's the key to the car, here's the ignition, you turn it. End of story. My life is not enriched if in order to start a car, I'd need to go through 20 steps and then clean up after that, maybe wash the car huh? I want to install an app. I click once. Installed. Over. I don't want to open, root about, drag, drop, clean, mount, unmount, pray, touch wood, apply a handcrank, start up a rocket, involve the neighbour, kill a chicken or build a snowman. It does not add to my life or ease of use of the computer in any way to complicate the installation process any more than: click - BOOM (Steve's voice) - DONE.
     
  16. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #16

    It's for the same reason Apple introduced new dialogue boxes when installing widgets in 10.4.2 - it's a security measure. At the moment, the disk image technique gives the user a preview of what they'll get without technically installing anything. From there, they can then theoretically drag the app to wherever they like. The DMG offers a remote, or intermediate location for an app, away from the rest of the system. :)
     
  17. kretzy macrumors 604

    kretzy

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    #17
    For an OldCorpse, you're very lively...maybe someone forgot to take their stress medication this morning??? :rolleyes:

    It is relevant. I have never had this occur while I've been using a Mac. However it often happened in windows because it occurs as part of the installation. The whole point of .dmgs is to prevent this. All that is installed is the thing you drag to the application folder.

    Just about every dmg I've opened has rarely had more than two icons in it. One is usually an installer, or the app it self. The other is usually a Read Me file. And whenever these are opened, there are usually VERY clear instructions on how to proceed - "drag this icon to your applications folder" or double click to install". How is that difficult? :confused:

    You can either simply delete/eject the dmg as you would an installation CD. Or you can save it, if you wish to install it at another time. How is this any different to when you d/l a program in windows, go into the folder which has d/led (which I might add, often has 5+ files/folders in it), find the setup/installer (of which there is sometimes several along with .txts, .inis. exes and who knows what else), double click on it and run the installation wizard. The program installs etc. You are then still left with the initial d/led folder. What do you do with it then? Hmm, delete it or save it!

    Look, in the end it doesn't really matter. If you find that installing things on a Mac is difficult, then that's fine. My personal opinion is that it is easier.
     
  18. RacerX macrumors 65832

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    Aug 2, 2004
    #18
    ... as you die of carbon-monoxide poisoning sitting in your car in your garage.

    What you want is not the equivalent to a car... a car requires skills and abilities. What you seem to want is the equivalent to public transportation.


    Sorry, but anything that is as easy as you seem to want is the type of situation that leads to the installation of software on your system that you might not want. You want someone to be able to install stuff on your system by you clicking a link in a browser... then I suggest using IE on Windows. If drag-n-drop is beyond you, then your perfect for Windows.

    Macs aren't for everyone. They may be more than you are ready for. :eek:
     
  19. lucas macrumors member

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    #19
    This fine specimen, folks, is a troll. he looks pretty tubby already, dont feed him any more.
     
  20. discoforce macrumors 6502a

    discoforce

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    #20
    Umm... sooo... UWF404, did we answer your question?

    OldCorpse, I don't know if you want to post a question, but it does sound like you're having a legitimate problem. You should not have to run an application from the .dmg file each time. If I had to do that, I'd be pretty steamed too.

    In my experience the only times that happens is when the dmg file itself was put in the applications folder or the dock. Thus, when you click on it, it opens and wants to install again.

    Regardless of whether it's easier or more difficult, it is what it is. Did you want help?
     
  21. UWF404 thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jan 6, 2004
    #21

    Yes, issues resolved.. Thanks everyone.. Apparently I was running the application soon after the install and somehow was running the app from the disk image. I guess what I should have been doing quickly after the install is eject the disk image and then run the app. I still think it's counter intuitive. In Windows once the app is installed I can safely run my app. There is no "Virtual" anything.

    I suspect there are countless of newbies out there just like me wondering what all these disk image icons are all about.:) IMHO I don't see why Apple can't clean up the install process to make it a bit more clean.
     
  22. discoforce macrumors 6502a

    discoforce

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    #22
    Now this I've never run into: You install the app, open it from the apps folder or wherever you installed it, and it runs the disk image because the image is still mounted? If you don't mind my asking, what application(s) did this?
     
  23. UWF404 thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jan 6, 2004
    #23
    Here is exactly what I did

    1. Install app (COMIC LIFE) by moving icon to Applications folder
    2. With the folder still open I took the icon from there and put it in my dock.
    3. Clicked on my dock to use the app
    4. Realizing my app was running from virtual disk image I closed app and ejected the image.
    5. Started my app again and with it the disk image icon shows up again on desktop

    Has happened to me several times before with Firefox, and Real Player.
     
  24. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #24
    1. Are you sure you copied the application and didn't make an alias?
    2. When you say "the folder" are you talking about the Applications folder of the disk image window?

    Either one of these would cause the application to keep re-mounting the disk image.
     
  25. crees! macrumors 68000

    crees!

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    #25
    Well you're not going to drag your READ ME file into your Apps folder, unless you're some kind of idiot who then shouldn't belong behind a computer period. I would think the ICON of the program is a sufficient hint on what to click on / drag. And then there is the READ ME file for the idiots who can't figure it out. So, there you have it.
     

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