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proline

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2012
630
1
I don't understand this shift towards smaller screens. We've lost the 17" laptops which were great machines. Apple appears to be abandoning the 15" and shifting down to 11", 12" and 13" screens. For real work I want the 15" screen, at the very least, and a 17" screen would be really nice.
Where are you getting that nonsense about abandoning 15"? The 15" retina MBP is still very much in production. As for the 17"- it's called supply and demand. No demand means there will eventually be no supply. Look that concept up. Apple only makes machines people are buying.
 

Crosscreek

macrumors 68030
Nov 19, 2013
2,892
5,793
Margarittaville
We go over this every time... Basically the only thing you get from these new chips is battery life.. And even then maybe only 10%. The CPU increase is only 10% for a cost increase and supply shortage.. When a Mac mini is just plugged into the wall anyway.

"New" Intel processor upgrades since the Core 2 updates have only been 10% performance /battery boosts at the best conditions... There's no value in the 18-month upgrade anymore. Unless you NEED a new feature like thunderbolt 2 or bluetooth 4 there just isn't a lot of REAL improvements versus the Core 2 days... In fact Intel still sells those old Core 2 chips as NEW to poor schmucks which is why the PC market is shrinking.

It's going to offer Iris Pro across the line of processors and will be a great improvement over HD4000.
 

proline

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2012
630
1
Reducing durability is thinking ahead? For whom?
Where is this drivel about "reducing durability" coming from? MagSafe 1 and 2 are both equally durable and far more durable than the connectors Apple used prior when you factor in the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of laptop damage that they've prevented.

If you can't cite an actual source for your durability claims you're just spouting bull.

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Sorry, but I'm with Steve and Tim on the whole "gorilla arms" thing: touch/pen input only makes sense on a hand-held tablet, not a laptop, and both interfaces need their own UI. Try to merge them and, well: Windows 8, Gnome 3, Ubuntu Unity... I rest my case.
I don't know why so many people can't get this simple concept through their heads. Touching a vertical screen would become exhausting very fast, and smudging your screen would provide no benefit when you have a keyboard and trackpad right in front of you, both of which are more accurate. This idea is silly yet it keeps coming back.
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Where is this drivel about "reducing durability" coming from? MagSafe 1 and 2 are both equally durable and far more durable than the connectors Apple used prior when you factor in the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of laptop damage that they've prevented.

If you can't cite an actual source for your durability claims you're just spouting bull.



Maybe you could cite a source for your claim of the MagSafe charger saving hundreds of millions of dollars worth of laptop damages?
 

2457282

Suspended
Dec 6, 2012
3,327
3,015
Kind of defeats the point of an iPad when you have to have a second piece of hardware to work doesn't it? Kind of makes it a laptop really.

In some ways I absolutely agree. However, the keyboard is optional on the iPad but required on the laptop. Also in the case of the iPad, Apple controls everything from the hardware to the OS and even the Apps through the AppStore. Its also lighter and more mobile than a laptop. Finally, I believe the profit is also higher.

All this is to say that for Apple i is not at all the same.
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,539
25,302
I hate all the whiny bullcrap that this site fosters. MagSafe 1 was used for SIX YEARS (coming out in the era where Apple's thinnest Mac was a 5.6lb 1" thick MBP) and the 30-pin connector for NINE YEARS. Compare that to efforts led by other companies or standards bodies such as the micro-SIM which lasted all of two years or the disaster that is Mini A / Mini B / Micro USB and any reasonable person would say that Apple thinks ahead a lot further than most. The fact is, things change. Get that through your head and you'll be a lot happier.

It was just a little joke dude … I was hoping that the context of the comment I replied to would have implied that.
 

stoopkitty

macrumors member
Jan 26, 2010
62
0
I thought Broadwell was just a die shrink anyways. Will the Broadwell chips be meaningfully faster?
 

lincolntran

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2010
843
471
12" retina macbook air made out of liquidmetal, with sapphire infused IGZO retina display with touch! (1/4th power of regular lcd) and broadwell 28watt processor. radical new design, only 840grams. battery life: 15 hours. performance on par with macbook pro retina. thickness: 1cm. PCI-e SSD 1GB/s read/write 256GB standard. two thunderbolt II, 1 USB 3 and TouchID. pre-order from june 17th - delivery expected august. $1999USD.

I'll buy this in half a heart beat
 

Cloudsurfer

macrumors 65816
Apr 12, 2007
1,319
373
Netherlands
I thought Broadwell was just a die shrink anyways. Will the Broadwell chips be meaningfully faster?

Broadwell is a Tick which means it will have a new GPU architecture (along with Die shrink). Iris Pro 2 is supposed to deliver 30-40% more performance than Iris Pro, which by itself already is an amazing IGP.

This will further eliminate the need for dedicated graphics, which means smaller (thinner) laptops and better battery life.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
Where is this drivel about "reducing durability" coming from? MagSafe 1 and 2 are both equally durable and far more durable than the connectors Apple used prior when you factor in the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of laptop damage that they've prevented.

If you can't cite an actual source for your durability claims you're just spouting bull.

The comment you had originally quoted spoke of durability. You also brought up 30 pin/lightning, which were never particularly durable to begin with. I have nothing to claim for MagSafe as I've no experience with MagSafe 2.

Laptop damage has nothing to do with the durability of the connector (unless you are talking about electrical damage cause by faulty wires).
 

Val-kyrie

macrumors 68020
Feb 13, 2005
2,107
1,419
What’s the roadmap like after Broadwell? Got a 6-year-old MacBook Pro I’d like to replace with a 15" rMBP, but I’m not sure if I should skip one more generation.

It depends how important the new CPU architecture will be to you. See my comment at the end of this post.


it will be a revolutionary spec bump =) ;)

all joking aside. I think it is basically speed boost, more battery life(energy efficiency), and significantly faster graphics.
even though it is just a spec bump I am still very excited for broadwell computers.

I am actually super shocked by this! I thought there was no way broadwell would be ready until 2015

I will actually be disappointed if Broadwell doesn't get released by early November. Regardless, Intel has stated that Broadwell's life-cycle will be shorter than most. Intel still expects to release Skylake in 2H 2015.


Broadwell is a die shrink to 14 nm which means improved battery life. There is no new cpu architecture so performance wise it will be comparable to Haswell.

Gpu wise however will see massive improvements, the Iris Pro 2 is said to be 40% more powerful than Iris Pro. That alone is worth Broadwell.

If you want a new cpu architecture then wait for Skylake next year.

I decided a year ago that I would purchase my next Apple laptop when Skylake is released. I might have been swayed by Broadwell because of the advances in power conservation and graphics performance, but Broadwell will be the last of its CPU architecture whereas Skylake is going to become the basis of the CPU architecture for the foreseeable future. Skylake will include Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX) 3.2 512-bit instructions (as opposed to AVX 2.0 currently), SHA (secure hash algorithm) extensions (SHA-1 and SHA-256), MPX (memory protection) extensions, ADX (multi-precision add-carry instruction) extensions, SATA express (10-16Gbps) which is ~2.5 current SATA speeds, PCI Express 4.0 (which may be necessary for NVidia's Maxwell), and DDR4 memory (lower power consumption, more bandwidth, and hopefully also faster unless latency is too high).

Also, Skylake may bring more than just a new CPU architecture. Also due around that time are USB 3.1 (new, smaller connector) and TB 3.0 (twice the bandwidth of TB 2).


Depends on whether by 'launch' he is talking about products with Broadwell CPU's rather than the availability to OEM's to get the CPU for their products. What ever the case maybe it'll be interesting to see what the options will be when it comes to dedicated GPU - will Apple go for AMD/ATI or Nvidia for their iMac and MacBook Pro 15" range.

Hopefully NVidia.

Broadwell is a Tick which means it will have a new GPU architecture (along with Die shrink). Iris Pro 2 is supposed to deliver 30-40% more performance than Iris Pro, which by itself already is an amazing IGP.

This will further eliminate the need for dedicated graphics, which means smaller (thinner) laptops and better battery life.

It is also rumored that Skylake will be the first, true, single-chip SOC from Intel with a fully flexible graphics pipeline (Larrabee).
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
True but Apple has had plenty of time for prototyping.

Still that's not much time for companies like Apple to roll out new products, even if he promises that its not going to be the last second of the holiday.

What is sad is that he could not give a more firm date, so I'm thinking he is blowing hot air at this moment in time.

The funny thing here is that it looks like AMD, Samsung and TSMC won't be far behind with their own high performance sub 20 micron processes. It really looks like Intels process technology lead is slowly slipping away. What is really sad is when these companies slip deliveries it is all doom and gloom, when Intel does it the response is totally different.
 

Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,190
386
Indianapolis
I wonder what this means for the life span of the Haswell Refresh. I am more concerned about Devil's Canyon that is shipping around Computex 2014.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
Intel and Apple have been working very close lately, i'm sure Apple knows the exact timeframe.

That Intel guy doesn't go into specifics what Chips to expect though, mobile chips might still come at a later date.

I'm pretty sure that won't happen! Intel has gone all in on portable chips, they are truly exposed here to significant competition from various manufactures.

----------

What’s the roadmap like after Broadwell? Got a 6-year-old MacBook Pro I’d like to replace with a 15" rMBP, but I’m not sure if I should skip one more generation.

Broadwell "should" be excellent, especially if you hold machines for a long time. It isn't just Broadwell but the combination of things that they need to update to deliver a new generation of hardware. So before you jump on Broadwell make sure Apple has an implementation that is a complete update.

----------

I imagine Apple already has a handful of chips for testing. That seems to have been the case in the past.

I wouldn't be surprised if they got the first test chips in 2013. Most likely a Broadwell based laptop has already been built by apple.

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And when they fail to meet the guaranteed timeline like IBM then what? Roll out to A7 chips?

Totally different situation! Besides they would go with an A8 or enhanced A7. The reason for an enhanced devices is to get larger caches and a wider memory subsystem. In my opinion A7 could go a lot faster with such improvements.

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Apple never released a maglock. And their chargers are the best out there. For starters, everybody is trying to copy them.
Not even close! As to copying Apple that is all some companies can do.
But I agree, they should be more durable. They rarely change connectors, which means that your post is irrelevant and should be ignored.
You see this is where I have massive problems, you say they are the best out there yet they don't hold up at all. That is directly related to the cabling they implement which in simple terms is crap. It is perhaps one of the only really disappointing things with my MBP.

In short if they aren't durable they can't be the best out there.
 

proline

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2012
630
1
It was just a little joke dude … I was hoping that the context of the comment I replied to would have implied that.
Ok, so you just have a dick sense of humour. All is forgiven then.

----------

Maybe you could cite a source for your claim of the MagSafe charger saving hundreds of millions of dollars worth of laptop damages?
A hilariously transparent attempt at a redirect away from your baseless claims. You aren't fooling anyone except maybe yourself.

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Laptop damage has nothing to do with the durability of the connector (unless you are talking about electrical damage cause by faulty wires).
If we're talking about the durability of the contacts, preventing laptop damage was the entire purpose of the design of the MagSafe contacts and is 100% relevant. If we are talking about quality control issues in the cord or power supply, then this isn't really about MagSafe at all. Now since the OP can't cite any sources as to what reliability issues he is talking about, or even give an anecdotal example, we don't really know what he was trying to say except that he said it poorly.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
Actually apple did this very thing. They went from a 64 bit G5 2.7ghz to a 32 bit Intel core duo 2.3 ghz which was a little slower than my dual G5. To match the speed of my G5 I had to buy a quad core macpro 1,1 32 bit system at that time.
That depends upon how you measure performance. The Power PC chips had terrible integer performance and that lead to most users seeing significant improvement in overall system performance on Intel hardware. This even if there was a step backwards to 32 bit hardware.
True the A7 isn't ready but give it a few more revisions and the A10 may be ready for prime time as Intel keeps slipping delivery dates.
It isn't as far away as some think. Yes it would need a revision to improve cache and memory access but the architecture of the chip is actually rather advanced for a mobile chip.
Knowing apples track record to switch CPUs I'm sure in some back room they have osx mavericks running on an assortment of boxes from an A8 multi core to a Power 7 or 8 multicore and others.
Most certainly. The specific machines probably can be determined by looking at the architecture support in LLVM. However I'm certain that they have been running Mac OS/X on "A" series chips for some time now. Reports started coming out at least two years ago that Mac OS on ARM isn't that bad. I suspect that minor tweaking could deliver a very nice laptop chip.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall and heard the yelling and screaming going on when these other chisp are now out performing their current lineup. ;-)

Actually there are other concerns when it comes to i86 in a Mac OS based machine. It is a massive selling point that one can run Windows or Linux on these machines if they have to and do so easily.

However I suspect that they have Mac OS running on at least 3 architectures at Apple. ARM is really a no brainer here because iOS is basically Mac OS with a different GUI and some technical changes here or there in the kernel.
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,086
8,627
Any place but here or there....
I think I've had a kernel panic...maybe once since 10.5. Even then it was still my fault (experimenting with deleting files). If you didn't mess with something you are probably having a (faulty) hardware issue.

That's terrific. I had only a scant few prior to Mavericks installation (went over everything a few times here. Like yourself, others have been great in trying to help out.)

I don't doubt it could be me and the hardware. The machine is close to four years old, so it's expected on the hardware end.

I can be very impatient and under Mavericks that could be some of the beach balling - especially with the memory tweak inside 10.9. Considering this thing flew on ML with 12GB of ram. Ah well. As long as it can last until the new machines arrive, great. I've got a contingency plan just in case it does not though.
 

mtneer

macrumors 68040
Sep 15, 2012
3,179
2,714
I've always wondered why doesn't Apple announce that they are dropping Intel processors from their portfolio, watch Intel stocks tank 90 - 95%; then swoop in buy Intel for dirt cheap, get rid of the operations which it doesn't like and start punching out A-series processors on Intel's latest fab technologies??

Is that illegal in the US??
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
Intel is under extreme pressure right now.

Interesting that Intel felt the need to make any kind of public statement. As others have noted, Intel's main clients have presumably been informed along the way.

The move away from i86 in many products, products consumers are favoring, has put a real crimp in Intels earnings. They need to reassure people that relevant chips will come in time.

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What will be the advantages of Broadwell? Is there anything really revolutionary here or is this just a spec bump?

You can read the same Intel documentation everybody else does. When it comes down to it all chips are spec bumps from previous design.

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If I can't do my work on a regular size iPad, how will things change with a larger iPad?
Well for one a larger machine would hopefully have a larger RAM array. Larger than the shipping base machine which also need a RAM boost. You would also hope for a faster chip and a larger battery to support it.

However more than anything else it is the extra pixels that make all the difference in the world.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
Broadwell is a die shrink to 14 nm which means improved battery life. There is no new cpu architecture so performance wise it will be comparable to Haswell.
Well not exactly. Broadwell gets minor fixes or improvements but you can't underestimate the importance of a switch to 14nm for improved clock speeds. The potential is there for much faster clock speeds depending upon how Intel wants to allocate thermal loads.
Gpu wise however will see massive improvements, the Iris Pro 2 is said to be 40% more powerful than Iris Pro. That alone is worth Broadwell.
Yes huge for the chips that actually deliver that bump in performance. It is one of the bigger reasons to hold off until Broadwell. Any machine using the integrated Intel GPU should demonstrate very nice GPU performance increases. That is for a like to like implementation, I can see Apple trying to exploit the low power possibilities for that rumored fanless Air. If Apple tries to leverage the low power possibilities we may actually see a performance regression as I don't see a fan less Air keeping up with actively cooled machines this year.

In Apples other machine though Broadwell should be a huge win.
If you want a new cpu architecture then wait for Skylake next year.

Actually I didn't think SkyLake was all that new either. More of a minor bump in performance. Then again we are getting to the point where it isn't likely that you will see massive architectural improvements to i86. I can actually see Intel stressing more cores over extremely complex ones.
 

G4DP

macrumors 65816
Mar 28, 2007
1,451
3
It is also rumored that Skylake will be the first, true, single-chip SOC from Intel with a fully flexible graphics pipeline (Larrabee).

The same Larrabee that has been touted about and talked about for almost 10 years?

That ship sailed a long time ago.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
I've always wondered why doesn't Apple announce that they are dropping Intel processors from their portfolio, watch Intel stocks tank 90 - 95%; then swoop in buy Intel for dirt cheap, get rid of the operations which it doesn't like and start punching out A-series processors on Intel's latest fab technologies??

Is that illegal in the US??

Yes, this would be very much illegal. Even if it wasn't, it still wouldn't work.
 
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