As a developer of an app that relies on geo-location data, I think it's important to recognize how our users were impacted. When Apple made this change, users would complain that the app was broken (even though they were the ones force closing the app). It might be easy to think, as a user, "when I force close an app, it should be completely off". However, if a service you love is behaving differently and is providing a bad experience from what you're used to, then this end-result is worse. In my opinion, our users didn't like Apple's change either and they'll be much happier when our app reverts to it's previous behavior.
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iOS 7.1 to Fix Geolocation Issue That Broke Location-Based Apps
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Are you telling your users what the impact is when the users choose to kill the app?
Sorry, but if I see that you're still using location when I kill you, it's an instant delete and a bad review. Period.
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That's not the point, even if Apple or the developers didn't do a good job educating, that's not a reason to revert this change because some developers whined about getting bad reviews.
If the experience of the app is going to be harmed when users kill the app (which most of the apps aren't, only the location-based apps would be affected here), then those specific apps should inform the users what the consequences will be.
"Hey, if you kill the app using the switcher, you will not get any location updates".
Then they should educate their users. When I force kill an app I want everything to do with that app to stop. I don't want to take an additional step of turning off Location Services for that app, then having to remember to turn Location Services back on the next time I launch that app. That is truely rediculous.
Really good arguments on both sides. I can see that for privacy I might want to kill an app that is tracking me. I should not have to dig through menus to look up the app and turn off location services for it. Why not include a switch within the app to turn it off with a reminder pop up when you reopen it that for it to work it must be switched on again.
That seems to be less drastic and solves both problems.
That seems to be less drastic and solves both problems.
Where is the check list?
How to kill an app AND its services, be them locational or not? How to kill an app and leave the services, be them locational or not, running? How to kill an app and leave ONLY services from a white list? Without Jobs, Apple may think it is too complex to provide all the answers leaving iOS not fully operational. Rolling the right change back is wrong. The cry about not technical users is PLAIN STUPID AND DANGEROUS. Exactly that has already killed desktop Linux. BTW, how many kids do receive iPhone as their first handheld? Can we assume that now all iOS users come from Android? Can iOS sans Jobs understand what does that mean?
How to kill an app AND its services, be them locational or not? How to kill an app and leave the services, be them locational or not, running? How to kill an app and leave ONLY services from a white list? Without Jobs, Apple may think it is too complex to provide all the answers leaving iOS not fully operational. Rolling the right change back is wrong. The cry about not technical users is PLAIN STUPID AND DANGEROUS. Exactly that has already killed desktop Linux. BTW, how many kids do receive iPhone as their first handheld? Can we assume that now all iOS users come from Android? Can iOS sans Jobs understand what does that mean?
As always, the answer to any problem is 'give users less control over their device'. I've been watching this mindset at work since the days of DOS.
Im sure another reason was folks complaining about Apples own reminders app would stop the location based reminders if the app was closed. so you would have to remember to turn on reminders to remind you when you left home to do x. BTW, iOS has worked this way until iOS7 so going back to what worked is not a bad idea. Even background refresh stopped if the app was closed. THAT makes no since. This is a change back for the good IMO. Nice to once again be able to set a location based reminder and it actually works verses not working because you forgot to launch the reminders app so you would be reminded
Im sure another reason was folks complaining about Apples own reminders app would stop the location based reminders if the app was closed. so you would have to remember to turn on reminders to remind you when you left home to do x. BTW, iOS has worked this way until iOS7 so going back to what worked is not a bad idea. Even background refresh stopped if the app was closed. THAT makes no since. This is a change back for the good IMO. Nice to once again be able to set a location based reminder and it actually works verses not working because you forgot to launch the reminders app so you would be reminded
This. I came here to say that, so thanks.
Im sure another reason was folks complaining about Apples own reminders app would stop the location based reminders if the app was closed. so you would have to remember to turn on reminders to remind you when you left home to do x. BTW, iOS has worked this way until iOS7 so going back to what worked is not a bad idea. Even background refresh stopped if the app was closed. THAT makes no since. This is a change back for the good IMO. Nice to once again be able to set a location based reminder and it actually works verses not working because you forgot to launch the reminders app so you would be reminded
Agreed. This forum is populated with very intelligent, computer-savvy members, many of whom work in software development. Forum members do not represent the general public. For better or worse, developers, Apple included, have to code for what the average user expects, not always what seems logical. This is one example of that.
your mom still does that. Haven't you had a word with her yet?
I guess all this is great for NSA and other governments who want to keep tracking iPhones.
That's why there is a switch to turn of background location updates, if you don't wan't these apps to get location updates, just turn the switch off, no need to give an instant bad review.
The problem is users don't read. They need to be re-educated. We tried everything to educate them on this matter, and it has been an impossible task. Tons of bad reviews because the app wasn't working. They were killing the app, and they didn't know what was happening. So the problem is not about not telling them the issue, we tried that, is about them not fully understanding the consequences.
We can live with a bad review from you, but thousands of good reviews from users that will appreciate Apple's current decision.
You tried educating them how? with a pop up in the app or an obscure instruction in the vein of - beware of the leopard?
Developers should not be educating users. Apps should just work, the way most users expect. Thus the 7.1 fix.
If you prefer your location privacy, that's what Privacy Settings are for, not the recently used app list.
Not saying you are wrong or doing anything wrong but a bit of a clairification: The majority of the memory needed would have been allocated upon launching a game like that, the effect on performance when making room in RAM would be negligible excepting maybe slightly with launch speed (at best, less than a couple seconds). However running many background processes may lock significantly more of the space for general use.
To the second part, I came to iOS about a year ago from a barely functioning EVO 4G running various flavors of Android and I still have a fairly strong impulse to make sure and force-quit Google Maps because leaving background processes open would impact the battery so significantly (disclaimer: it was likely my fault anyways).
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So when you kill Mail, the phone should stop receiving email notifications despite the fact that your Settings may indicate "Push"?
Oh I don't know, I'm sure developers would love including a list of pre-flight instructions when an app is launched....
So what about Find My Friends? It seemed like for it to work everyone would have to have the app open and running (in the background at least), which isn't all that practical as a lot of people don't have that. At least with that app, once permission is given, you can see where your friends are whether or not they have launched Find My Friends app on their phone, right?
Each app merely defines the region. iOS sends the region boundary notification to the app by first waking up the app if BG app refresh is enabled (even if it is not running in BG), then sending the entering/exiting region notification. The app then decides what to do with that information.
Some apps may want the notification regardless if the app is running in BG or not. I use one which was written before iOS 7.0, which users were accustomed to the behavior. When iOS 7.0 was released it appeared to the users that the app was broken because the behavior changed, when it was in fact iOS that changed. iOS 7.1 simply reverts back to the original behavior which the overwhelming number of developers and users preferred.
The burden will be for each app developer to decide if it should ignore the notification depending on if the app was previously running in BG or not, not for iOS to decide wether to send the notification or not. The 7.1 behavior actually functions more like native Apple apps, which is what developers are more inclined to want.
Here end the lesson...
Some apps may want the notification regardless if the app is running in BG or not. I use one which was written before iOS 7.0, which users were accustomed to the behavior. When iOS 7.0 was released it appeared to the users that the app was broken because the behavior changed, when it was in fact iOS that changed. iOS 7.1 simply reverts back to the original behavior which the overwhelming number of developers and users preferred.
The burden will be for each app developer to decide if it should ignore the notification depending on if the app was previously running in BG or not, not for iOS to decide wether to send the notification or not. The 7.1 behavior actually functions more like native Apple apps, which is what developers are more inclined to want.
Here end the lesson...
not the right plan
I'm sorry but this is not right. If you quit or force-quit an app then all the things that the app owns should go away. Things that the app does not own should remain.
What you're proposing is that system services used by the app should also be terminated. That's like saying, on OS X, that if you quit MS Word then the print subsystem (cups) should be terminated, because Word uses it.
I'm sorry but that is a weird and unhelpful proposal. We should not go there.
I'm sorry but this is not right. If you quit or force-quit an app then all the things that the app owns should go away. Things that the app does not own should remain.
What you're proposing is that system services used by the app should also be terminated. That's like saying, on OS X, that if you quit MS Word then the print subsystem (cups) should be terminated, because Word uses it.
I'm sorry but that is a weird and unhelpful proposal. We should not go there.
Right. As a developer, I feel the way iOS 7 handles background processes is consistent. And it is clearly communicated so on Apple's support website.
Part of the problem is that Apple Geniuses and Support staff regularly tell people, that it's a good idea to Force Close your apps. That is complete BS.
And another question: If geolocation is not disabled, why is background fetch or other services. These can be disabled in the settings, too, so why the special treatment of geolocation?
Alex
Fire up Waze, check traffic, if all looks good - tap menu button (bottom-left), then hit power button (bottom-right of menu).
Alternatively: Fire up Settings app, hit General, look for Background App Refresh, uncheck Waze, if all looks good - do nothing more. App is in background = App uses no data/gps/location data.
But you know that Waze is living from community by reporting live traffic data, not just with jams?
Acting like this actually kills the service.