iPhone Analysis and Palm Perspective

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    [​IMG]

    TreoCentral posted an excellent analysis of the Apple iPhone from the Palm and Smartphone market perspective. It addresses issues that have been long-standing in the smartphone world, including on-screen keyboards and battery life issues.

    One interesting aspect is the lack of a removable battery in the iPhone. While this has worked for them in the iPod marketplace, the author suggests that Palm's experience has been one where users demand a removable battery. Certainly, the tradeoff provides a much slimmer form factor for the iPhone.

    Also pointed out, however, are the relatively vague battery life numbers provided, though, to be fair, the product remains 5 months from shipping.

    The article also addresses on-screen keyboards, user interface, lack of 3G, non-open platform and more.

    A Palm VP was quoted in terms of marketing against the iPhone in the coming months:

    Indeed, Palm CEO had suggested that Apple would have difficulties in entering the phone market after Palm had "learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone".
     
  2. macrumors 601

    DMann

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    #2
    iPhone vs Treo

    Here we go
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    iJawn108

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    #3
    Ahh so I was right with my no battery thoughts. I hoping this might be the first iPod device with an interchangable battery. :(
     
  4. macrumors 601

    DMann

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    #4
    3g

    First round -- EDGE.

    After first takers, 3G offered wih rev b
    for incentive to upgrade.....
     
  5. macrumors 601

    DMann

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    #5
    enclosure

    with such an elegant enclosure, a battery swapping chute
    or trap door would perhaps compromise the overall sleekness.
    Perhaps solar panels integrated into the screen will be
    implemented before June:rolleyes:
     
  6. macrumors 68020

    Willis

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    #6
    Jobs clearly said that they're making 3G phones in the future along with other bits of com technology.

    He should of watched the keynote :rolleyes:
     
  7. macrumors member

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    #7
    oooooh, bitter
     
  8. macrumors 6502

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    #8
    i think the phone ships 3G... no way it stays edge... they just didn't want to announce it without knowing it could be completely implemented in the phone yet (kind of like the 3GHZ in one year thing)... of course i may just be making that up...

    about the treocentral article... i read about half of it but then i had to go throw up...
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    After G

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    #9
    I don't know ... 3G seems redundant with Wi-Fi.

    I can't imagine where I'd be out in the middle of nowhere and then bam, have to surf the net or check email at 700 kbps.

    I would do Wi-Fi if I wanted fast. 6mbit down on my cable Internet connection, and I wouldn't pay EDGE/3G fees. That's just me though. I guess it would be useful for email, but then EDGE would be enough for that ...

    I was hoping iPhone would do 802.11n ... maybe it'll come with 3G in the next upgrade :)

    Is 3G backwards compatible? They might have done EDGE because it was more ubiquitous.
     
  10. macrumors 65816

    GodBless

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    #10
    Although you mentioned it sarcastically, I think solar implementation is a fabulous idea for Apple to experiment with. Jonathan Ive's team could totally revolutionize the way solar is efficiently used.
     
  11. macrumors 6502

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    #11
    there are lots of places where i get phone service but not wifi access... this would be the advantage of having 3G also... it would have a good range and if i'm driving down the road I don't have to authenticate with 10 different wireless routers just to load 1 page... i'd say that its a range thing... but if you are in a wifi hotspot the wifi would be the choice method.

    EDIT: by driving down the road i mean riding in a vehicle while someone else drives... cause i'd be the first person to get all upset over someone surfing the web and driving at the same.... swervin' all over the place... i can see it now... buckle up everyone...
     
  12. macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #12
    But he does make a good analysis. Apple can use the tech that's out there, and Apple didn't just invent superior batteries that can be super small in size, and give you decent battery life. The battery life numbers SJ told us sounds like he's hoping for a miracle in the battery world for that to happen. Otherwise, it'll be like the 15" PB when it came out, with it's amazing 4.5 hour battery life (that lasted 2 hours).
     
  13. macrumors member

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    #13
    who cares about 3G?

    I have a 3G phone here in Berlin, Germany, where arguably, the people here use SMS and ringtones and games in a much bigger way than they do in the states. (Mtv here is basically the Ringtone Channel.) So I can download video. Woop dee doo. At first, this was cool, it was before video iPod. But three things keep me from DLing more:

    1. The shiza is expensive to buy.

    2. The shiza is really expensive to download.

    3. There's no real good shiza worth forking over the cash for. (I HAVE to see the new Lupe Fiasco video 500 times. On my cel phone. Right.)

    Apple not using 3G is smart because, just sync up what ever media you want from your computer, and you should be able to store enough to GET YOU THROUGH YOUR COMMUTE. These guys talking about no 3G was hilarious. It just goes to show how crappy their relationships are with the carriers.

    What a horrible business. Please Apple, introduce some civility and downright class into the telecommunications industry. These poor guys are retarted with frustration.
     
  14. macrumors 65816

    GodBless

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    #14
    Solar isn't the only Apple could do for a non-charge power solution. Apple could include an RF energy conversion feature using a similar solution to Powercast's (a review of their amazing RF receiver is here). If worse comes to worse then they could license Powercast's solution from them (however I think Apple would probably buy Powercast first knowing how much they hate licenses from the iPhone patent incident).
     
  15. macrumors 68000

    After G

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    #15
    If you drove and looked at MR at the same time ... get your priorities straight. Macrumors first! :D

    I was thinking EDGE would primarily be for e-mail, maybe IM. You know, quick communications.

    It'd be like Apple putting 802.11n in all the Intel Macs just because they could, without having a deployment strategy (the new Airport) in mind.

    If 3G is backwards compatible, I would have done it.
    If it's not, it wouldn't be a good idea for Apple to put a technology with limited deployment into a production device.

    Maybe it's a battery life thing as well. Who knows?
     
  16. macrumors newbie

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    #16
    SIM card

    What about SIM card? I do not see any ways of putting it in the phone. Is the iPhone going to be US-only device? Here in Europe each phone uses a SIM card from a service provider... Does anyone know more information on that?
     
  17. macrumors 6502

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    #17
    3G is not redundant.

    No !
    WiFi doesn't make 3G redundant.

    I live in Germany and the situation is like this:

    - WLAN is common for use at home. I have my WLAN at home using a 4 mbit DSL line. So surfing at home with the iPhone wohld be fun, but the iMac still has a larger screen.
    But on the go, WLAN is nearly useless. In the town where I live I do not know any WLAN I can access and I relally walked around a lot with a MacBook. Some hotels etc. do have public WLANs, but they are often quite expensive (often more expensive than 3G service) and they are very insecure (no encryption), sometimes you even have to enter credit card info via unencrypted WLAN.

    - UMTS (3G) is now widely available. Even in the small Town where I live it is available nearly everywhere. Surfing with the MacBook (using a SonyEriccson 3G mobile) is not as fun as DSL, but it is very useable. The Operators even started to upgrade to HSDPA (1.8 MBit/s+).
    I also is afordable now, there is an "unlimited" pricing plan (data+phone calls) for 50 Eur/month. But I could not use that with the iPhone.

    - EDGE is virtualy non existant. Only T-Mobile has some EDGE, but only in a few places. The other operators do not offer it at all. I think they prefer to invest the money in 3G.

    - GSM/GPRS is available nearly everywhere. So I could check the mail with the iPhone. But it is limited to 56 kbit/s and has very high latency, so even things like pop3 or icq are slower than on old modem connections. Surfing the web with this is horrible.

    Now understand why 3G is important?

    Christian


     
  18. macrumors 603

    SiliconAddict

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    #18
    Palm has several things still going for it still. The biggest being 3rd party app support. This is something that Apple really does need to push over the next year. If they don't all we have here is an expensive, closed smart phone.
    However as I said before I'm not overly concerned right now since there is almost half a year until the *Phone comes out. In typical Apple fashion they are taking things slow and steady. Nothing wrong with that approach. It just drives some people insane in a world of I WANT IT NOW! NOW NOW NOW!
     
  19. macrumors 68040

    emotion

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    #19
    If Apple pull this off this will finish off Palm won't it?
     
  20. macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    #20
    It is really amazing how many people online are bitching about the lack of 3G when Steve himself mentioned it in the Keynote. I could understand if it was only mentioned on a web page on Apple's site, but Steve said it himself and people are still griping about the lack of it!

    The product is not even out so the point is irrelevant anyway!

    Steve hinted at a lot of things in that keynote and all people can do is bitch, personally I'm amazed and just sat back since the Keynote and not commented online anywhere. I'm doing so now because it seems somebody else did watch it with me.

    I've seen some posts on engadget for example state the phone is already out of date... and CNET reviewers gave it a 7.1 score somehow... whatever.

    I'm not talking like a Fanboi here either, this product and the multi-touch technology is amazing and the fact Apple changed its' name would in my opinion reflect their new attitude to the world of electronics and open them up to do more than just computers... which they are doing. I also doubt they are keeping Multi-touch to the phone as well... you're going to want that one on as many devices as possible.
     
  21. macrumors regular

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    #21
    Yes, there is a slot for the sim card.
     
  22. macrumors 68030

    irmongoose

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    #22
    This is definitely not the market Apple is aiming for. Seven hours... on a phone... 143 texts... crazy.



    irmongoose
     
  23. macrumors G4

    daneoni

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    #23
    Somewhat true, the iPhone is still lacking although its a solid competitor i dont see it replacing my treo but rather partnering with it. There is no removable battery, no Office suite editing support, no memory expansion support (which i guess is a marketing ploy to get people to keep upgrading to higher capacity versions). Also what about apps?

    The iPhone is an amazing product but i dont see myself getting the first gen unless i have spare cash lying around. The treo is still more productive for me.

    Also lets be fair the iPhone copied/borrowed stuff from Palm such as the ringer/silent switch function, threaded SMS, the famous home button/home screen, phone app etc but thats ok they took the good stuff and improved on them so im not complaining.
     
  24. macrumors 68040

    matticus008

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    #24
    Cingular also uses SIM cards, and the iPhone will be made available in other countries using GSM. As such, there has to be some way of inserting and swapping the cards, but it's not clear how, exactly. (EDIT: as has been mentioned by others and can be seen in the keynote, there is a slot on top of the iPhone.)
    802.11n is too fast and too demanding for the hardware in current PDA/smartphone class devices. It also won't speed up Internet access in any meaningful way, and given that virtually no one has an n-capable router, even home use would be irrelevant. I have yet to see a single "palmtop" device make full use of even 802.11g.

    As for 3G, Cingular doesn't have a 3G network worth a crap, so there's no rush to get it in the device. The United States just barely got EDGE implemented, so I wouldn't hold my breath for tens of billions of dollars in new spending, especially since the industry is already talking about 4G. Our broadband access sucks in general, be it DSL/cable or cellular in nature.
     
  25. macrumors 68040

    emotion

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    #25

    Don't you think the iPhone (from what we've seen) looks like an ideal platform for dashboard style widgets?

    They are really easy to write yourself. We just need to wait to see if Apple will allow this but I don't know why people think Apple will lock this down to 1st party apps. It seems like an ideal platform for 3rd party stuff.
     

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