iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

[dashiel]

Re: Re: Re: iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

Originally posted by Brock
For those of you who watched the expo: Steve jobs lined up the stats of the mini against a comptative mp3 player. everything was good (16 x the music/space, better interface, etc) untill he got to the bottom and said "and its only $50 more". If he had said "and we are offering it at the SAME price." it would be unstoppable, but that $50 makes a big difference. Most of the mac enthusiasts ive spoken to without ipods or with first generation ones say they would rather spend another 50 to get the 15 gig.

same exact thing happened when steve intro'd the ipod originally, he compared them to flash players and the then current crop of crappy HD based players, it was the same comparison list, and the ipod was $50-$100 more than the comparable hard drive player at the time. people said then exactly what they're saying now.

it'd be funny how much history is repeating itself, if it wasn't so sad that so many mac users have such knee jerk reactions.

 

[sushi]

Re: Before any iPod mini detracters eat their foot...

Originally posted by ChrisH3677

Yes Steve has had some failures:
The Cube....ummm... Lisa...others?

Name one very successful person who hasn't?

There are none that I know of.

Sushi

 

[Nebrie]

Re: Re: iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

Originally posted by Count Blah
I'd like to see a statistical source for that. If Apple is trying to get the high end flash market, then what is their appeal? They can't claim it's the HD size, since their approach seems to be what this quote is saying. Can they claim the physical size? There are smaller MP3 players out there. Is it the ability to work out with it? Flash based MP3 players are MUCH better for working out(no moving parts). They are selling their Name and the iPod name, and they are charging a premium. Sure, some will buy. But you can just turn Apple's own argument around to buy other MP3 players(either classic iPod or smaller flash based players that are better for working out). Obviously Apple wants you to go the iPod route, so they priced the iPod mini so that you would be an idiot to buy the mini versus the classic.

If you are going to compete against something(high end flash market) it helps to be in the same market(<= $199).

I said it before and I'll say it again - Instead of Apple going after the middle third of that keynote piechart, they just made their 95% of the high end market($250+) go to 97% with the iPod mini.

You need to get out more.

 

[jwhitnah]

After reading those old posts, I'm glad we're not running Apple! I'll bu the mini when they get it up to 10GB.

 

[bdkennedy1]

Hell, I'm considering selling my 15gb iPod and getting a mini. I thought it would be awesome to store thousands of songs on my iPod, but the truth is I haven't even listened to a 1/4 or them and my iPod is only 1/4 full. I'd sacrifice capacity for size.

 

[jwhitnah]

Originally posted by bdkennedy1
Hell, I'm considering selling my 15gb iPod and getting a mini. I thought it would be awesome to store thousands of songs on my iPod, but the truth is I haven't even listened to a 1/4 or them and my iPod is only 1/4 full. I'd sacrifice storage space for capacity.

My personal library exceeds what my 1stG iPod can handle but all I really need it what I put on my play lists. 95% of my iPods use is in the gym. For a long trip, I could use a bigger iPod.

 

[arn]

Re: Re: iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

Originally posted by Count Blah
They can't claim it's the HD size, since their approach seems to be what this quote is saying. Can they claim the physical size? There are smaller MP3 players out there.

Yes, there are smaller players... but they have _much_ less storage.

Yes, there are higher capacity players... but they are physically larger.

There are/will be competitors... the Rio Nitrus 4GB was just announced at $249.

However.... look at Rio's smallest physical sized player (128mb)

128MB, $99
Dimensions: 3.5" x1.5" x 0.7" => 3.675 cubic inches

iPod Mini

4GB, $249
Dimensions: 3.6" X 2.0" X 0.5" => 3.60 cubic inches

The iPod Mini is smaller! (in volume) with 32X the storage. The volume is probably not technically smaller... since the Rio tapers... but still... you get the idea. For what it offers... the iPod Mini is small.

arn

 

[starboard]

Re: Re: good job arn

Originally posted by fearless
...1000 songs take longer than I care to exercise most days..

1000 songs = 5days (give or take a few hours) of exercise, non-stop.

actually the best promo at MWSF would have been to print up image of the mini on business cards with specs on the back and handing them out to everyone. That would have really emphasized the size. And this could roll out at the retail stores.

 

[nagromme]

Glass half empty?

Some people look at the mini and the 15 and say the mini looks bad...

Is it just me who looks at that comparison and instead sees the 15 looking GOOD?

There's nothing wrong with the mini pricing, at current component costs. And for another $50, the 15 GB iPod is a great buy too, if you want bytes instead of slimness.

I don't need the extra bytes, so of course I'll save the $50 and choose something more portable. Not to mention it will match my AlBook. (But I will wait for Rev B--and that may well come with a price drop.)

Did everyone see the pie chart from the mini intro? Here's the current music player market:

31% iPods. Apple already dominates HD players.

7% ALL other HD players combined!

And two markets Apple might target:

31% low-end flash players, cheap but only hold 30-60 songs and often "get thrown in a drawer and forgotten" or else upgraded (in price and capacity) to become a high-end flash player

31% high-end flash players, 120 songs for about $200

That's right, high-end flash players are as big a market as the iPod. And now, for another $50, those folks can choose a mini and get 1000 songs instead of 120, keep the slim/lightweight size they like (are any others as thin as .5"?), and gain a much better interface.

So... which of those two flash markets should Apple target? Should they make a cheap device that can hardly hold any songs, and disappoints those who buy it? Or should they go after the high-end Flash market with the far-superior mini, priced the same as other new 4GB HD players--ones that lack the iPod's reputation, ease of use, and color choices?

The mini's capacity and pricing is perfect to take on the market segment Apple wants. The segment they are about to take, I predict!

Prediction: Flash player sales will decline: low-end units because people will realize they aren't very useful, and high-end units because ultra-compact low-end HD players hardly cost more anyway. So a new ultra-compact HD market will emerge to replace the bulk of flash player sales. And who will dominate the ultra-compact HD market? Apple. First at $249, and later on even cheaper.

 

[neutrino23]

After going to the exhibits and handling the mini iPod I got a very different sense of it. It is so light and small you don't hardly feel it at all. It seems to float in your hand. In the booth the Apple staff had these strapped to their upper arms. You could easily do that to listen while doing most sports.

I think the pricing was just about perfect. As was pointed out above, once you set the price it never goes up, it only goes down. From this price Apple has room to launch discounts, promotions and bundles to improve sales on an as needed basis.

Remember last fall when Apple sold a 10GB iPod for $200 off if purchased together with a computer? How about a similar deal this summer ( or whenever sales slow down). Get $150 off on a mini iPod if purchased together with any laptop. That would certainly get some attention.

 

[Ge4-ce]

Jobs biggest mistake (and still)

I can only adress successes to Jobs! Yeah.. the cube.. hmmm.. I know several people who died for getting one! The cube was just a matter of taste. Although it wasn't a real sales-succes, I thought it was really cool.

No, Jobs Real mistake is the Mouse!!! Like 95% percent of the people who I know of working with Pro Apps go and buy a new mouse with 3 buttons and a scroll wheel. Some apps really NEED that! I think it's quite weird to throw in another extra 30 bucks for a mouse when you've just spent 3000 on a new Powermac..

 

[jnasato]

Haha! The comments on the iPod...

I guess this shows that we should all be careful about what we think about new product releases, because Apple and its market analysts, etc., might actually know what they're doing!

 

[Cap'n Hector]

Re: Re: Before any iPod mini detracters eat their foot...

Originally posted by arn
Apple III ? (not sure Steve's involvement in that)
NeXT as a hardware company...

But I think it's a big short-sighted to attribute everything to one man (successes or failures)... it takes a town to raise... oh wait... takes a whole company.

arn

The Apple III failed because Steve made the case size too small and so it heated up and had issues with badly seated chips coming lose.

The Cube has been mentioned…

NOT releasing a new version of the Newton might be a failure…

The Lisa flopped pretty hard, and Jobs was in charge of that project.

Jobs has had some near-miss flops, also, where others saved his butt…

The Macintosh 128K was made expandable (not easily, but it was expandable) to 512K against Jobs' orders…which extended the life of the machine when the Fat Mac was released.

Also, when Apple was making one early computer (I think it was the 128K) Jobs wanted Apple to make their own floppy drive…a very difficult engineering feat. The engineers negotiated with Sony in secret until the non-workability of Apple's drive became apparent. Oddly enough, Sony was happy to supply drives…

 

[elgruga]

MMMM! I must have that Rio thingy. Its so ugly!

Its great to see the 'competition' for the mini - that rio thing is dusgusting - it looks like a rectal thermometer or some similar piece of medical equipment.

The important thing for me is that I feel that Apple is really moving forward and I will not have to run Windoze or clunky linux (yes, I know its great, but I want my computer to do the work, not me) because Apple is SOLID.

OSX Panther, iPod, 64 bit chips, XServe, all the iApps, Final Cut, ITMS (when it comes to Canada), etc.etc
Are we doing good or what!?

My TiBook hasnt been off since I loaded Panther - no crashes. Sleeps all night, works all day.

Are we doing good or what!!!!!!

Yes, I am going to get a miniPod, since you ask.....Why?

Small and beautiful, like a woman I know!

BTW, great site you guys - always fun and educational on MacRumors. Thanks.

 

[chinamac]

My three teenage daughters and teenage neices and nephews are arguing over the color of the mini they want.

They don't care about the 11G difference to the iPod. They are not "addicted" to all the detailed specs that people on these and other boards talk ad nauseum about that don't mean much to most people anyway.

Umm........ I think they might actually represent a larger market share than those that worry about G capacity. Of course this means I gotta get ready to be hit with 750 bucks plus tax in the very near future.

On a more serious note, when the timing is right (I believe its only a question of timing as the product is probably ready to ship), Apple will ship "home on the iPod) where the masses of geeks and the like will see added value in the original iPod- carry your home folder whereever you go! Wow! Whether it is truly necessary, thats a different question. But surely buyers will then see additional value in the original pod and the differentiation with the mini will be more pronounced.

For the folks who lamented the price differential with the iPod 15G is too small, they will be looking at the original anyway, because they would be the ones interested in the other values that this would bring. For those who are wowed by the fab form factor of the mini, they will go and are going the mini.

 

[desdomg]

I think MacRumors are off base on this one. The "initial negative reaction" was actually ALL about the price and nothing to do with the feature set or size - which everyone was very happy with.

All the press will be doing is trying to keep a very popular story going by showing a new angle, regardless of how valid that angle is. A bit like how MacRumors are now running the told you so angle. It is fair comment but not an accurate reflection of what is going on. Bad reporting.

 

[arn]

Originally posted by desdomg
I think MacRumors are off base on this one. The "initial negative reaction" was actually ALL about the price and nothing to do with the feature set or size - which everyone was very happy with.
........
A bit like how MacRumors are now running the told you so angle. It is fair comment but not an accurate reflection of what is going on. Bad reporting.

Price is intrinsically tied to feature set/size:

$249 for a 200GB iPod the size of the iPod Mini
vs.
$249 for a 1GB iPod the size of a Bookbag

I'm not sure what you mean regarding the "told you so angle"... as that wasn't the intention of the article.

arn

 

[desdomg]

Originally posted by desdomg
I think MacRumors are off base on this one. The "initial negative reaction" was actually ALL about the price and nothing to do with the feature set or size - which everyone was very happy with.

All the press will be doing is trying to keep a very popular story going by showing a new angle, regardless of how valid that angle is. A bit like how MacRumors are now running the told you so angle. It is fair comment but not an accurate reflection of what is going on. Bad reporting.

PS, if you want to compete on price in a sensitive sub $200 market it is usually a good idea to offer your product with a sub $200 price tag. Also, I do not see the sub $100 market being insignificant either. Eventually it will be THAT segment which accounts for most sales., not the $250 - $300 segment which Apple is now in.

 

[el gringo]

Re: Re: good job arn

LOL

Agree with everyone...but...I think/hope we'll see a price drop OR a 2 GB version within shortly (6 months) at 199 USD.

The response from my PC-buds are overall more positive regarding the iPod mini...than us folks

Originally posted by fearless
People will decide, and if they want it, they'll buy it. They won't be worrying about whether the big one holds another 3,000 songs, nor will they be strapping a 120GB drive to their backs and jogging with that because it holds their music...

 

[nagromme]

Exactly. The low-end market will be key for Apple eventually. Not now, when low-end means a disappointing 30-song experience. Right now, the best selling music player is the iPod, a high-end choice.

One day Apple will be able to offer 1000 songs under $200. Then under $100. That's not the reality today, and it won't stop people from buying every one Apple can make for some time.

 

[Sabenth]

I have to admit the first thing that i did and said when i saw that freak was. Oh goodie candy sticks. But now having time to adjust to the colour the size wasnt an issue The Price . Yes the price can go down but comparing it to flash i think Apple did get it right after all...


Clap Clap FOR STEVE AND THE GUYS AND GIRLS AT Apple

 

[splashman]

Lisa wasn't Steve's baby

Originally posted by Cap'n Hector
The Lisa flopped pretty hard, and Jobs was in charge of that project.

Actually, he wasn't. He fought tooth-and-nail against the release of the Lisa (he wanted to keep it internal, as a test bed for what was to become the Mac). It was released anyway at the board's insistence, but Steve was successful in the long run, because he priced the thing so high no one could afford it ($10,000). And he eventually pulled it from the market and dumped almost 20,000 Lisas in a landfill because they were competing with his precious Macs.

(My dad was on the Lisa's software development team, so I know what I'm talking about. We had a prototype at our house in mid-1979, when I was 14 years old. How's that for a privileged childhood!)

Isn't it ironic? The Lisa, back in 1979, had full preemptive multi-tasking, virtual memory, full integration between all apps, instant app switching, and a host of other features that the Mac wouldn't get until many, many years later. And it's only since OSX that we've regained the PMT.

I've got a souvenir in my office: a 1-megabyte RAM board from a Lisa. It measures about 9 inches long by 6 inches high, and is absolutely crammed with chips on both sides. How things change.

 

[tduality]

Re: good job arn

Originally posted by yoman
this is why i enjoy visiting macrumors

Exactly. Nice quotes.

 

[dekator]

Price

Guys, you don't know how lucky you are -pricewise- in the USofA. Yeah, $200 would've been even cooler but look at European prices: The iPod mini is rumoured at €299 (at least one web store advertises it at €289). Those prices are for Germany and they include 16% VAT. Now, let's do the math: $249 are currently (roughly, actually a little less) than €195. Add to that 16% VAT = €226.
That means we're paying 60 - 70 Euros more than the price in the US! That's up to $ 90 ! Not nice.

 

[Krizoitz]

Re: Jobs biggest mistake (and still)

Honestly, some people just don't get it. The whole intent of the one button mouse was so that anyone can learn to use a computer with the minimal amount of work. You could literally watch someone for a couple minutes and you could use the computer just like they did. You didn't have to wonder which mouse button they were pressing for what or anything.

Ok, so people know all about mice now, so give us the new mouse you say. What kind? Two button? Three? Scroll wheel?

First I'd like to point out that by only providing a basic mouse Apple is allowing the user to choose an alternative that best suits his or her needs. Have you looked at the third party options for mice? You can have them in any shape or size you want these days. I personally use a trackball.

By providing a basic mouse Apple allows the computer to be used out of the box. But whats to stop you from buying the exact one you want. Why should Apple waste money on new mouse when there are allready great ones out there. Its the same reason they aren't doing a PDA because the market is full, why bother. Plus it gives third parties a great opportunity to make revenue and best of all it gives us CHOICE. Choice is a good thing right?

So choose to let go of the one button mouse attack and enjoy a nice Kensington, Logitech, etc super mouse!

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
I can only adress successes to Jobs! Yeah.. the cube.. hmmm.. I know several people who died for getting one! The cube was just a matter of taste. Although it wasn't a real sales-succes, I thought it was really cool.

No, Jobs Real mistake is the Mouse!!! Like 95% percent of the people who I know of working with Pro Apps go and buy a new mouse with 3 buttons and a scroll wheel. Some apps really NEED that! I think it's quite weird to throw in another extra 30 bucks for a mouse when you've just spent 3000 on a new Powermac..