Iran and Venezuela get Chummy-er

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Lord Blackadder, Sep 17, 2006.

  1. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #1
    breaking news on the Beeb...

    I wonder how their rhetoric will conceal the fact that Venezuela is over 95% Catholic, a religion that Mr Ahmadinejad generally does not describe in friendly terms.
     
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #2
    You're forgetting that this isn't about religion but about the US. As long as the US continues to demonize both leaders, their ties will remain strong, should the US back down, it's likely the two will start squabbling. History is filled with many examples of this.

    I'm glad to see Chavez pursuing a global agenda, Latin America has for far too long been repressed by American policies. I don't agree with all of his policies, the price controls have been especially damaging to the nascent Venezuelan middle class but, he's finally truly helping the poor instead of just paying them lip service. Now, if only Mexico would follow the same path...
     
  3. Lord Blackadder thread starter macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    I'm not forgetting, but a succesfull alliance it built on more than a shared enemy - looking beyond their anti-US stance, do they have enough in common to forge a meaningful alliance or is it mostly political bluster to scare the Bush administration (they've already succeeded there)?

    I'm not sure that other Latin American countries are very trusting of Chavez, but are more likely to use the threat of joining him as a bargaining chip with the US/UN/Europe etc.

    And I agree that their alliace will only be effective so long as Bush's rhetoric against them is strong and threatening.

    I think that the Bush administration has overreacted to Iranian/Venezuelan FUD-rhetoric and as a result has given the latter nations' inflammatory comments undue credibility.
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    I honestly don't know if they have enough to forge a lasting alliance. I would think the oil exploration unit could be successful but I doubt the car will. India and China are at the forefront of producing low cost cars and even Europe has been making a few models for emerging markets. Throwing money at such a money losing proposition is not going to further their partnership.

    Distrust amongst the various South American leaders is quite strong and Chavez with Venezuela's oil wealth has been a little bit pushy. However, Argentina and Brazil are anxious to be freed from American domination so I would think some of Chavez' initiatives will succeed. South America has been beaten down by the US for decades and they're ready for a change.

    The inability of successive administrations to view South America as anything but a potential enemy and especially this administration's demonization of Chavez is scary. China has been spending a lot of money in South America and the ability of the US to continue to influence what's happening in SA is waning.

    I think the Iran/Venezuela bond is also a reflection of China's growing strength as much as it is of the belligerance of the US.
     
  5. Lord Blackadder thread starter macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    I think that while Latin America is looking elsewhere for foreign aid, they would gladly work with the US if they felt we were taking them seriously rather than being paternalistic - in other words, I don't think we have lost our credibility yet, but it is certainly at a low ebb.

    But going back to my original comment, I find it odd (or maybe a little too expedient) that a nation that is so overtly theocratic and insensitive to non-muslim culture (Holocaust denials etc.) while also being fiercely protective of its own ways can totally avoid mentioning religion while forming an alliance with a Venezuela that is as Catholic as Iran is Muslim. Call me a cynic, but I doubt they are as cozy-comfortable about it as Mr Ahmadinejad's smile would indicate.

    Regardless, I'm interested to see how it plays out.
     
  6. beatsme macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #6
    they're both founding members of OPEC...not really news, if you ask me. Just business as usual.
     
  7. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #7
    Good point. 46 years and running.
     
  8. Lord Blackadder thread starter macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    just because they're both memebers of OPEC doesn't mean they're allies; Kuwait and Iraq are both members, for instance.

    That isn't to say that their shared emebership in OPEC has not had an effect on the relationship between the two countries, just that the proposed alliance goes way beyond being fellow members in an oil cartel.
     
  9. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    And our (USA) country's rep declined the invitation to attend this meeting. If I were in that meeting, and any representative didn't show, I would feel that it's not only a slap in the face, but shows that that person's country has no interest in resolving the issues at hand. Way to go America. Way to go.
     
  10. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    I also want to know why India and Pakistan joined that non alignment meeting. Aren't Pakistan and India somewhat enemies? Surely they aren't fond of each other. Plus, I thought India and the US had great relations. Why sign pact with Iran?
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    Kashmir is a thorn in India and Pakistan's side, that's for sure but economic realities have led them to a path of reconciliation of sorts. Iran has lots of oil and gas and there's also the potential of selling to Iran nuclear technology. India's relationship with the US has been less than perfect so why limit yourself? The reality is that the world is changing and US hegemony is waning.
     
  12. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    India essentially founded the non-alignment movement in the 50's. Pakistan joined much later, after the failure of the Baghdad Pact (encircling the Soviet Union's southern border). By then, Pakistani leaders felt that the alliance with the US wasn't paying off sufficiently and wanted to be able to exploit other diplomatic avenues, such as with China, the Soviet Union, and through the non-aligned movement.
     
  13. Lord Blackadder thread starter macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    India is a non-aligned nation and has walked that line for decades now - for example they have been careful to buy military tech and equipment from both NATO (the US, Britain, France) and the USSR/Russia.

    India isn't an antagonist the way Iran and Venezuela are, but they have explicitly stated that they are not part of any "bloc" or military alliance beyond the UN.
     

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