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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by diamond geezer, Feb 21, 2005.
I don't agree (at least about the Iran part).
Ideology has it limits. Even Stalinist USSR did not engage in "regime changes" without a framework of appropriate internal strength and external aquiesence. The US has neither of those things.
To not put too fine a point on things, Hitler, in contrast, did push ideology beyond pragmatism's limits and it caused the Reich's collapse.
Also, don't forget Poland.
As I read those words, this one:
popped into my head.
Never underestimate a sociopath. They're not operating on the plane of sanity.
But, you see we're a young world power with the first genuine coup in our history. Neocons have convinced themselves they're undefeatable.
We're due for our psychopathic regime. If you substitute the word "Liberal" with the word "Jew" in neocon rhetoric it's the same trash that came out of Gerbles. We even have a budding SS in the form of the Dept of Homeland Security/Domestic Intelligence. Who are the two heads of those departments?
Oh yes... A known neocon extremist and the man who brough us "The Dissappeared".
The trick will be surviving the storm. Time to move out of the urban centers.
that just made me laugh. Goebbels I believe. Somehow, I saw gerbils, though...
That aside, I see your point(s). I have to wonder, using a cautious comparison, whether we might be closer to Stalin than Hitler, if one had to choose.
In any case, not a comforting thought...
First, on Saturday, there was this:
And then only a few days later, this news:
Coincidence? I think not. The next time, we turn the "earthquake" dial up to 11.
Hey they already said the tsunami and the earthquake that caused it were actually US nuclear weapons -- or caused by US oil prospecting.
So blaming the US for another earthquake isn't too far out of the realm of possibilities.
<ahem> "God is on our side" <ahem>
Seriously, my hearts go out to all the Iranians who have lost loved ones and/or their properties/possessions.
It is a reminder that whether disaster comes via nature or from political ramifications, it is often the most impotent, poor and innocent who suffer.
Bob Dole better watch out then, eh?
Rodent vs weasel
Erm.... Heh... yeah....
in mischief's defense, 'goebbels' does sound like it has an 'r' in it.
I didn't mean to come off like a spelling nazi <ahem>. I just reacted strangely to the spelling (as noted above).
I still got the point, but I am still of the opinion that if you are making comparisons to despotic regimes, the relative rationality of the Stalinist model is more appropriate than the Nazi one. Subsequently, no Iranian invasion until such a point as it is strategically advantageous from a geopolitical cost/benefit analysis. Aid and propaganda till then.
I should make clear, however, that I think we have a fair way to go to be in either league.
Earlier on CNN, I saw Bush saying that any ideas that we are planning to bomb Iraq are ridiculous. In the very next sentence he said that at the same time, all options are on the table. Talk about conflicting signals.
it's only confusing if you don't apply the neocon filter. it really reads as: "we are going to bomb iran. that is the only option."
From the CNN article:
My own translation of this:
"Iran isn't like Iraq. They have an identifiable Nuclear programme, Our pre-emptive doctrine opens the door to First Strike."
wasn't that the failed joke ? at least he was grinning like it was one and few people kindly applauded ... it was one of those classic "we know it was meant as a joke but it wasn't really funny" moments ... (if i remeber the pictures correctly...)
on bush's europe visit on general:
+lots of nice talking from both sides but bush kinda gently said that they will not chance their politics at all....
+on the other side he got perfectly shielded from protesters (which were quite a lot i think 12.000 in Mainz)
+the 2 most frequented parts of the german autobahn system needed to be closed for multiple hours...in the traveling season... the whole ship traffic on the rhine got closed for hours(which equals about 0.75-1 million lost alone)... the most frequented airport as well (only for an hours or so)... 15.000 additional police officers ... the opel production lines (5000 workers) needed to be stopped,the missed work there will be made up on saturday and sunday..and hundreds of other businesses had to close as well during the day... in mainz the whole economy came to a halt...
+rather gently german media commentaries on the TV
+rather harsh comments from the press (the austrian one was especially bad)
+a pro-bush demonstration at the Mainz railway station...with a whopping 20 people
the "dropped town hall meeting" (insert rolling eyes if you want):
edit: oh yeah one article mentions the expected revenue lost total: 300 Million (edited: doh typo) euro ... not bad for 7 hours ... no wonder one newspaper called it 'the emperor's visit"
If that was a joke, somebody alert David Letterman. He can use it on that "George W. Bush Joke That's Not Really A Joke" routine that he does.
I don't know who or what to believe anymore. Honestly.
And that, Sam, is one of the biggest problems with Bush's administration: credibility.
Given the lies that have gone before, I'm extremely suspicious of this story:
Now since Bush, Cheney, Powell and others orchestrated a fake justification for attacking Iraq, how do I know that this story isn't being planted in the media in order to stir up support for a future invasion of Syria? Especially when the report appears on "U.S.-funded Iraqi state television station."
This is something the neo-cons just don't get. You lie about having sex with an intern, and the damage to your credibility is limited. You lie boldly about going to war, and your credibility is shot: no one's going to believe you again.
Did you repress November?
If true, it doesn't bother me, and probably won't bother most Americans. Nobody has any sympathy for Iran, and any of us over 35 or so still remember the hostages. I don't think we can invade iran given our committments, but we could easily bomb them - our planes are in the region and are not engaged.
One thing you have to say for the administration - it knows how to pick its enemies. The current/former governments of Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are/were the most unpopular and reviled on the globe, and nobody was really sad to see the last two go.
I'm probably beating the comparissons to death here but:
You lie boldly about going to War and PM Chaimberlain of Great Britain flies out to make sure your next lie is more comforting.
You lie boldly about going to War and your greatest enemy hands you half of Poland.
You lie boldly about going to War and then take Europe sleeping on a Saturday.
You lie boldly about War and then turn like a rabid dog on your proximal paper-ally cuz you never liked him in the first place.
mischief, are you talking about Germany or the USSR?
I figure with the mention of Chamberlain, it is the former, but it works surprisingly well with either.
I was speaking specifically of the former but either works for this purpose. Personally I find the Nazis a better comparisson as Stalin didn't so much cajole his countrimen into full participation in genocide through propoganda as show them the bloody consequences of opposing his regime.
Did that make sense? The coffee's kicking in......